RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!"

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 10:32:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hangemhigh1953

MistressSnow, I remember you talking about that before. That is actually a totally legitimate reason for not liking sissies. And to be completely fair, as much as I admire SEALs, he typically would want to make it all about himself, I hear they're usually egotistical d-bags.

This is pretty much IT for me. I am a friend of the transgendered, and am happy to shop, dress, do all the things that a person who is transitioning wants to do. I also like shopping with crossdressers. (I like dressing people!) I am also not interested in a MtF transgendered person as a life partner. Because I am not a lesbian, eh! I would like to think of a MtF as NOT manly, or at least not wanting to be manly...

Those who identify as "sissies" seem like a whole other thing, and it's a prancing peacock of a thing that I want no part of. I paid my dues, I gave 'em the college try, and I am DONE with sissies. Hats of to the ladies that like them, they are just too high maintenance for Little Me.

Have you seen the film "Ed Wood", or Ed's film "Glen or Glenda?" I dig that kind of crossdresser who is into the fashions for the feel of them.

Is a crossdresser "unmanly"? I take that on a case by case basis. Is he wearing the clothes to be transgressive? To try and "pass"? To garner attention, good or bad? Is he a whining jerk/egotistical douchebag?

Short story: men with fetishes are men with fetishes. I do not like all of their fetishes. I do not like a person with a PENIS referring to it as a CLIT, or his asshole as a pussy. They are NOT. I like men who like to fuck women.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 10:52:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

As for clients....doesn't matter they pay me to play to their kink. I judge(and yes I will admit I judge) them more by their actions as a client than by their kink.

Well said... very well said!

quote:

The livein pet does drag from time to time for no other reason than (to quote him) "you find dick in a dress entertaining" and he is right, from time to time, I do. I find very few things on the planet more entertaining than a man that can actually pass for a woman in public. I believe that has more to do with my personal views of what people pay attention to and what they don't when it comes to people they come in contact with.

My ex was a cross dresser and he looked better dolled up than a lot of women look. I used to smile when we went to clubs and men salivated over her. Her confidence and great sense of humor always made it easy to embrace her as a female as well as a male.

quote:

Having said all that...I think I found my point....Defining someones can not be done simply by what they are wearing. What defines gender, much like what defines a person in any other manner, lives on a much deeper level than that. Putting a dress on a man doesn't make him any less of a man than putting makeup on a woman somehow makes her more of woman.

Again, well said

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 11:34:12 AM

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LadyP, thank you for your thoughtful reply to my post. You and I have had this conversation before, on a thread very like this. You are correct that I cannot control how people choose to act or react to another person, nor should people in any way be discouraged from having and expressing preferences.

There is a very real issue around gender expression in that the subject is teaming with poor examples and bad experiences. And yet, in spite of the overwhelming masses of folks looking for "fetish delivery" and putting people quite off, there are relationships being had all over between people who do "get it"....lone voices in the wilderness.

I just worry that these threads simply furthers the stereotypes, the negativity around males engaging in gender expression...all that crap that frankly is not completely undeserved and yet paints a few quite unfairly.

And so I come into these threads trying to be an ambassador for those who might be open to the concept of gender expression in their partner to let them know that it is really not just a mass of clueless idiots with demand energy....

I get really jazzed thinking about the successful relationships that contain a "gender element" going on in Colorado. I want to see MORE of that. I want to see a place for the "other gendered" in our communities. A place of expanding acceptance and safety and belonging...frankly just as it has been for me.

Not trying to change het women into bi women, nor dictate anyone's preferences...just raising my voice against a very real gale, and wishing it were not so fucking true...at least online and among the pros...and trying to show that there is another side to it where the focus IS on the Lady, where the energy is giving rather than demanding, and that folks who are other gendered can be very good partners for the right person. :)

P.S. and honestly...when Stella has even had enough...well, it makes me want to cry out in despair...

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 11/30/2011 11:36:23 AM >

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 12:12:11 PM

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Ya know.......when I read threads like this I really think that, at the core, it isn't about the specific fetish.

What I see is a lot of people that are more into their fetish than submitting or serving. They see the kink on a list under the heading of submissive or slave and just run with it. When in reality, they often do not want to serve or submit, they just want to get their kink on. They misrepresent themselves, perhaps not even intentionally, and then everything goes to hell.

Personally, I don't care if a person is primarily kink oriented..........whatever their kink is.......but don't try to wrap it up in a slave/submissive package and expect me to buy it. And that, to me, is the problem. It leaves people that are looking for a slave/submissive first with kinky fun as a second, with a bad taste in their mouth, so to speak. AND even worse, it means that delightful submisssives/slaves like Otters end up painted with the same brush, just by kink association. And that sucks.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 12:15:03 PM

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You do know that you are an incredible minority, right, Otters? To the point where I have never encountered ONE person that id'd as "sissy" that was remotely service oriented when the maid's outfit came off?

I have a hard time matching up the men who want to wear my unnerpance with the people I know who are trans. They just do NOT behave the same way. Maybe because gender issues are not a FETISH?

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 1:11:25 PM

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Some T-girls, cross dressers and sissies are into submission, some are into bottoming, some are into masochism, some aren't into anything other than dressing up. Funnily enough not all Dommes are only into domination. Some are into a lot of other things too. They may just like a bit of titillating role-play, they may just do this on a Saturday afternoon when the kids are at their dads and and they have the opportunity to dress head to toe in latex and get their sissy boy all dressed up too.
The sissy may also be deeply submissive but why should the ones who are not spoil it for the ones who are?

I always say, don't have any expectations of a person until you really get to know them because if your expectations let you down then you can only blame yourself.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 1:17:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Some T-girls, cross dressers and sissies are into submission, some are into bottoming, some are into masochism, some aren't into anything other than dressing up. Funnily enough not all Dommes are only into domination. Some are into a lot of other things too. They may just like a bit of titillating role-play, they may just do this on a Saturday afternoon when the kids are at their dads and and they have the opportunity to dress head to toe in latex and get their sissy boy all dressed up too.
The sissy may also be deeply submissive but why should the ones who are not spoil it for the ones who are?

I always say, don't have any expectations of a person until you really get to know them because if your expectations let you down then you can only blame yourself.

Luckily, the self centered peacocks give themselves away immediately!

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 1:33:04 PM

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Yes they do. I always say that its easy to spot a t-girl in a nightclub because she will be the one dancing in front of the mirror!

The thing is though, that's their thing. These t-girls all tend to hang out with one another in predominantly t-girl clubs and all help to powder one anothers noses in the ladies for the best part of the evening. Its a genuine fetish, they do need and want to feel like real women and the majority of them are into a bit of fun role play without being into the full submission thing.
We can't though, tar all t-girls with the same brush. My ex could be as confident and brash as the next one but she was deeply submissive.
My friend has had a sissy maid for 4 years. She is deeply submissive and loyal.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 2:45:55 PM

Iholdthestrings

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Ya know.......when I read threads like this I really think that, at the core, it isn't about the specific fetish.

What I see is a lot of people that are more into their fetish than submitting or serving. They see the kink on a list under the heading of submissive or slave and just run with it. When in reality, they often do not want to serve or submit, they just want to get their kink on. They misrepresent themselves, perhaps not even intentionally, and then everything goes to hell.

Personally, I don't care if a person is primarily kink oriented..........whatever their kink is.......but don't try to wrap it up in a slave/submissive package and expect me to buy it. And that, to me, is the problem. It leaves people that are looking for a slave/submissive first with kinky fun as a second, with a bad taste in their mouth, so to speak. AND even worse, it means that delightful submisssives/slaves like Otters end up painted with the same brush, just by kink association. And that sucks.

Well said, LaT. This is one of many, many examples why I've felt (for years) that CM needs to add "top" and "bottom" classifications to the other side.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 3:42:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

You do know that you are an incredible minority, right, Otters? To the point where I have never encountered ONE person that id'd as "sissy" that was remotely service oriented when the maid's outfit came off?

I have a hard time matching up the men who want to wear my unnerpance with the people I know who are trans. They just do NOT behave the same way. Maybe because gender issues are not a FETISH?

You know, I really don't know quite how to respond to this. I don't think I have done anything particularly unique or clever. I found a person and fell in love with them. It is in my nature to want to take care of them. We have simply put a name to it and created a dynamic around it. My Lady was kinky for many years, I was new. I have to say, I love living this way.

But it isn't rocket science even for a new person to take a look around and realize that what is going on here is relationships between TWO people and that there is a clear and defined focus on the Lady. I blame the Femdom porn for the disconnect in so many folks....

As to the whole concept of Gender and Fetish...I identify as Transgendered and a very large part of me is distinctly female...but I have had forced fem fantasies (still do!)...and as my Lady will tell you , I am a total peacock...I love the clothes and yes, they can be a sexual (really more of a sensual) turn on for me...

If there is a difference I have noted, it is that I just don't want to take the clothes off once I have cum. That is true I think for many trans-folk. And having an orgasm or wearing certain clothes have nothing to do with my relationship or life choices and so I don't tend to vary in my submission. I attribute that to the fact that I have a brain...duh...

And so there is nothing freakin' remarkable in any of that which is partly why I get so frustrated at the guys who cannot seem to see it, even when it is pointed out to them. I guess that goes to LadyNT's point about some people misunderstanding or misusing identifying as submissive.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 3:53:47 PM

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You really don't think that what you and Nikki have is rare, Otters? Really? Have you been listening to the many women here who have essentially given up trying to find a "submissive" male?

Yes, it is a "well, duh", but it's a fucking miracle nonetheless.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 7:05:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

You really don't think that what you and Nikki have is rare, Otters? Really? Have you been listening to the many women here who have essentially given up trying to find a "submissive" male?

Yes, it is a "well, duh", but it's a fucking miracle nonetheless.

Ah, and it hurts my heart to think that there are Ladies out there who cannot find someone - boggles the mind too given the numbers. But...as we have talked about here, the numbers are the numbers but they are not really what they seem, it seems...

I can think of at least three femdom/other gendered sub couples in Colorado who have successful relationships going. Now, is that a lot? No. And so, yes I suppose what I have been most fortunate to find and help create is rare.

There is something that we talk about a lot in Trans circles - it is the concept that Sex and Gender are not the same thing. Perhaps we need to all work to more clearly define that having a kink does not make one submissive. This is true I think of all the single-threaded requests we get through here, from fem, to stomping, to ball busting, to forced bi...and the list goes on...

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 7:44:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

I can think of at least three femdom/other gendered sub couples in Colorado who have successful relationships going. Now, is that a lot? No. And so, yes I suppose what I have been most fortunate to find and help create is rare.

Off the top of my head, I can also think of three femdom/ MtF sub couples in Colorado. And, Otter, I can also think of two maledom/MtF sub houses in Colorado, including mine.

I think that part of it is the energy a TG brings, in genuinely celebrating his or her chosen gender. It's kinda cool.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 7:55:25 PM

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And that is wonderful. I made some new friends that include a wondeful genderfluid male in their mix. I am seriously looking forward to shopping with her.

I still don't want a MtF as a primary. I still don't want a CD as a primary. Honest to "Connie" that doesn't make me, or the women who feel as I do narrow or unwelcoming. And THAT is the feeling I am leaving this thread with.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 8:43:42 PM

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Now, I am completely uncertain how you might have been made to feel narrow or unwelcoming out of all this LadyH. I certainly don't feel that way about you, nor anyone who posted...well, except for flaming head guy, but hey, he seems to have more serious problems...I mean, his head-is-on-fire-omg...

And I hope the OP will forgive the diversion that my posts took us on - sort of on-topic, but a lot of other stuff thrown in too.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 9:39:33 PM

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I'm kinda looking at it from a few different angles...

first--the whole "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man" to me falls into the same dust bin with "real subs only" and "only true slaves need apply". There's a certain close-mindedness that goes with that verbage.

second--I can understand people not wanting to play with a sissy sub if it just doesn't turn them on to see a man in sissy "mode". Fortunately for the sissies, there are plenty of women who dig it.

lastly-- I used to be a hardcore uniform fetishist--I spent a lot of time putting together and putting on my uniforms because it made me feel really hot, and when I felt hot, I felt like playing in the dungeon. So I look at sissies the same way. Maybe it's what makes them feel hot, and that allows them to loosen up their other inhibitions and play.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 11/30/2011 10:15:28 PM

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Its hard for folks who don't have enthusiasm for something to breathe life into it.

Gene Rodderberry's son made a documentary about his father. The film was pretty awful and I could not watch the whole thing, but "Trekkies" were identified as people who liked variance and had curiosity in different life forms, and who found edification in "inclusion" and tolerance.

Can you see outside the box? Can you go where others have not gone before? Can you set your prejudices aside?

Anyway, back to the thread, its funny, I share some of the same views that woman have against "sissies," namely I'm somewhat prejudiced against women who doll up in high heels, lot's of makeup, perfect nails, jewelry just so, hair all coiffed, etc. It seems kind of shallow to me. I like a tougher, more masculine look. In the end the person trumps the packaging. A winning personality wins people over.

Back in the day, women used to take heat for dressing like men -- now woman inhabit a nearly to total unisex clothing lifestyle. Men, in contrast, have to dress the traditional part.

Yes, this post is all over the place.......

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 11/30/2011 10:16:52 PM >

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 12/1/2011 3:14:12 AM

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@having a kink does not make one submissive

^ This and I would include, having a fetish which I think is far stronger than kinky does not make one submissive.

I personally find a huge difference between T-girls who are just into dressing and wanting kinky sex and a T-girl who is submissive. One I could never fancy, the other I could fancy quite a lot if I felt her submission was right for me. To me this is no different than going to a nilla night club and watching a load of attractive women and going to a munch or BDSM club and seeing an attractive submissive T-girl. I wouldn't be interested in the first but may well be interested in the second.

Like Stephen says, these girls can exude energy. They don't just give you their appearance as a woman, they give you the inner woman too and some of us can celebrate that with them, some can't and that's perfectly alright too.
What we should be careful not to do is throw all into the same basket and presume all these sort of woman is the same.
There are very few people adding to this topic and some people, including myself, have added multiple times. Three of us here have had or are having such relationships. Out of such small numbers I personally think that is quite a big percentage.

< Message edited by MariaB -- 12/1/2011 3:15:34 AM >

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 12/1/2011 4:45:55 AM

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I thought I'd come back too on this...

When I mentioned my reservations it was more to do with the individual person and their relationship with themselves rather than a value judgment on their gender.

This is why I don't get the 'I don't want a sissy I want a real man' thing, a sissy is a real man. I just don't see how anyone can make such a value judgment on someone else's identity. It's like when I get someone challenging my gender identity. Who I am is beyond any sort of discussion. I'm me, either accept or leave it. Define me as you wish, but please don't argue with me over this.

You can flip this round as for me it cuts both ways. You get female crossdressers, women who like to express their inner masculinity and again it goes all the way to the FtMs and in some respects I can't help wondering whether it's harder for them in some respects as it is for those going in the opposite direction or guys expressing their femininity.

I say this because I feel it's part of the wider issue of people having rigid or fixed beliefs over gender and some seeing gender as a basis for social privilege or disadvantage.

I've had a previous relationship recently with a woman who was very masculine, she's bi and her gender self-expression caused her problems in relationships with both men and women. She saw herself as a woman, but wore male clothing and preferred the traditional male role in the relationship. I didn't have an issue with it at all. It was her, she was being herself. The fact that she wore jeans and trainers and liked to express herself as a man didn't make her any less of a woman in my eyes. It was just an extension of who she was as a person.

I accept that we all have our preferences and stuff like this doesn't float people's boat.

What makes it so sad for me is that some people make the gender issue much bigger than it is in reality, or that they base their assumptions so that the human being inside in many cases just doesn't get the chance.

This explains why I've given up not just with sissies, but I've given up on relationships period.

You see when it came down to the crunch, the bottom line, they wanted me to fuck them up the ass. Might seem insignificant to some, but few know of the pain and heartache that part of me has brought me in relationships.

And you know what? I'm tired, I really am. I'm tired of the emotional rollercoaster I seem to always have to go through just to get someone else to see that part of my gender identity into context and for them to see me - the person behind it all and to relate to me as me. I'm tired of satiating people's curiosity, of being the second option, of becoming attached only to have someone walk away. I'm tired of the trust issues, the doubts, the fears.

I have my friends, my memories, my work, my creativity, enough within me to find happiness and meaning in my life. I know that you have to give people chances but I seriously doubt I can give anyone those sorts of chances any more.

This is nothing more than the same line of thinking, I've met sissies but decided that they're not for me only it's in reverse. Behind the frills, mthe heels and the wig you have the man, and beyond the man you have the person. And all too often the person behind it all never gets a chance.

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RE: "I don't want a sissy, I want a real man!" - 12/1/2011 4:51:22 AM

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I havent read the thread, Im just giving my own personal view my "sissy" is not just a sissy. he is very much a man in so many ways. I cant think of another man I would rather have in my BDSM relationship. To each his own but some have a very narrow view and generalise, way to much.
Human nature I guess. Id rather he be able to express his fetish than hide it from me.
Sheesh

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