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RE: "a true master" - 10/26/2004 8:52:24 PM

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I was (my hubby is a big fan of Bohr's, and is very familiar with his work).

I like the idea folks can change their signature as often as they want, and update their profiles as they see fit. I have read some amazing, very descriptive and clear ones (I always read 'em, I am just a very curious person). I gotta get an avatar! Yours is so great!).

Welcome to John!

-susannah

_____________________________

" I had been my whole life a bell - and never knew it until at that moment I was lifted and struck".

- Annie Dillard (1945 - )

(in reply to Suleiman)

RE: "a true master" - 10/26/2004 11:20:49 PM

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That happy little fellow, looking for all the world like a big grey turd in a doublet, is the philosopher-troll Spifficus. A friend of mine wrote a children's book and used my online persona ("Suleiman the Spiffy") as inspiration for one of the supporting characters. She actually managed to sell the manuscript, and the artist they hired decided to include Spifficus on the cover, so my friend cropped the picture and sent that to me.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to susannah)

RE: "a true master" - 10/27/2004 12:13:22 AM

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It has so much personality! I Love it! -susannah

_____________________________

" I had been my whole life a bell - and never knew it until at that moment I was lifted and struck".

- Annie Dillard (1945 - )

(in reply to Suleiman)

RE: "a true master" - 10/27/2004 6:15:26 AM

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First, the twue Master thing...something about that always gets me.

Secondly, something to add to that profile.

A Man who posts everything he thinks you want to hear in his profile will be a Master until you realize that they dont live up to their own standards.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: "a true master" - 10/27/2004 8:18:02 AM

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I think any list like that is a bit obscure and really lopsided, just like the common "to be a perfect sub" ones I've seen written. That list was likely written by a submissive or slave in a fanciful state, just as the other was likely written by a sub-scorned mastress.

What I look for in it's intricacies and depth could never be written in anyone else's list...nor would the people who flow well with me match me to any. It is the essence of humanity and the beautiful seperations between each and every person.

(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: "a true master" - 10/27/2004 3:14:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

First, the twue Master thing...something about that always gets me.

Secondly, something to add to that profile.

A Man who posts everything he thinks you want to hear in his profile will be a Master until you realize that they dont live up to their own standards.

~Thorns

Thorns - take a moment to actually smell the rose - and I thought you had such poetry and romance in your soul. Ahhh, disillusioned again.

If one looks at the list as a personal philosophy of what this gentleman believes a Master should be and what is he working to become, it becomes less about "true" and more about the attainment of personal goals.

I like the list. One of the questions I often ask is about *his* personal D/s philosophy. It is a little sad when there is no answer, or, worse, an answer of "hmm, errr, and,, you know, but it's hard to describe, you know what i mean? "

I did not write constructivist theory, but I agree with and use it when teaching. Transcendentalism was not my idea, but I agree with many of its points. Philosophy is a good thing. Idealism and the strength and desire to work to make it reality - I'm swooning and sighing.

newflowers

(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: "a true master" - 10/27/2004 3:36:23 PM

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Madame newflowers,

You my dear, grace me. Thank you.

In regards to Mr. Thorns, I do differentiate between a 'true' master and other types. Some may find my attitude judgemental. That would be a correct perception. I'm often asked, in the tone of admonition, "Why must you always see things in black and white?" I reply, "Because I differentate between good and evil. Because I don't fear my own judgment. Because I'm not ashamed of my mind, nor do I bow to the 'consensus' as if a wrong opinion held by a majority suddenly becomes the right thing to do."

I've been called an arrogant asshole... Usually by those who have been unable to sway me with poor reasoning and emotional appeals. When I'm wrong, I admit it, and thank whoever was sufficently intellegent to find flaws in my reasoning and point them out to me. However I recognize no authority higher than my own judgment and my own reason.

John

(in reply to newflowers)

RE: "a true master" - 10/27/2004 4:00:27 PM

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I don't have a problem with someone being judgemental or strong in their opinions, I just don't see much in the way of deep thinking in the list.
"A man who displays sensitivity will be a Master who is sensitive to you".
No kidding.

(in reply to JohnGalt)

RE: "a true master" - 10/27/2004 7:58:43 PM

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Ahh Newflowers, no worries. I still have plenty of poetry and romance in my soul. The problem is that my cynical side tends to hijack my soul from time to time. Perhaps I've become jaded in my relatively short journey. I have watched some of the smoothest talkers speak of the most wonderful aspects of BDSM, only to turn out to be some of the most deceptive people I have ever had the misfortune to meet.

I am not implying, JohnGalt, that you are in any way being deceptive. Nor am I implying that your beliefs are wrong. I disagree with and am curious about your beliefs on a "True Master".

"A man that displays sensitivity will be a Master who is sensitive to you:"
In what ways do you consider someone to be sensitive? I can sympathize with a slave. I can even empathize with a slave. But am I being insensitive if I tell her that she will perform task A and that will be the end of the discussion? Curious as to how you see sensitivity.

The poetry of the profile is very nice, but as I don't see things as simply black and white or good and evil, especially when it comes to labeling people, I will read it just as I would any Hallmark card.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to Estring)

RE: "a true master" - 10/28/2004 7:56:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
...
Nor am I implying that your beliefs are wrong. I disagree with and am curious about your beliefs on a "True Master".

"A man that displays sensitivity will be a Master who is sensitive to you:"
In what ways do you consider someone to be sensitive? I can sympathize with a slave. I can even empathize with a slave. But am I being insensitive if I tell her that she will perform task A and that will be the end of the discussion? Curious as to how you see sensitivity....

Ah! Mr. Thorns, I read your previous post as a simple unthinking rejection of ideals in general... My apologies if I misinterpeted.

The classic example of such sensitivity would be being aware of the slaves 'state.' For example, being aware that she has the flu, and choosing not to order her out for that 10K run. To me, a slaves submission is a precious gift. I think most masters believe this to be true. Some take it a step further, and realize that they have an obligation to their submissive, to look after their well-being. To at least do no harm, if not actually help them develop as human beings. There is a big difference between pain and harm. I've no problem causing my slave pain, so long as in doing so, I'm not harming her. Tattoos, piercings, even bleeding are examples of things that can do harm, or they can be harmless when done carefully with the slaves health and wellbeing properly addressed. To be able to take care of a slave, you have to be aware of their needs, their limitations, and who they are. To me, that's sensitivity. It doesn't mean being soft, or easy on them; it means knowing who and what they are. A master who doesn't take care of his submissive is no master at all.

John

(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: "a true master" - 10/28/2004 7:56:43 PM

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Blech. I was turned off as soon as I realized that "Man" and "Master" were capitalized throughout. Someone who is so lacking in self-esteem that he needs to resort to things like that to make himself feel somehow "more" is no one that I'd ever be interested in, personally.

And frankly, the whole things sounds like something taken from castlerealm, which is the LAST place I'd go to find any kind of realistic information. Want romantic fantasy d/s? Great, that's the place for it. But if you're interested in reality, avoid that website and people who talk like this.

This is, of course, just mnhso. YKIOK, IJNMK. YMMV. yadda yadda yadda.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: "a true master" - 10/28/2004 8:36:51 PM

jillwfsub4blkdom

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Joined: 7/2/2004
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it really is very sad that we have so many cynical folks around here. Nothing wrong with a list of goals an individul wants to attain or values someone deems important. Too bad folks are so judgemental and demeaning makes you wonder what goals they wish to attain.

jill

_____________________________

"It's the moment that transcends
Our physical into a more spiritual level of understanding" - Musiq

(in reply to SherriA)

RE: "a true master" - 10/28/2004 8:43:11 PM

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Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jillwfsub4blkdom

it really is very sad that we have so many cynical folks around here. Nothing wrong with a list of goals an individul wants to attain or values someone deems important. Too bad folks are so judgemental and demeaning makes you wonder what goals they wish to attain.

jill

I do believe you were just one of those judgemental people. Glass houses.. stones.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to jillwfsub4blkdom)

RE: "a true master" - 10/28/2004 8:46:26 PM

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People ask for opinions, so we give them if we're so inclined. Don't want to hear them? Let me introduce you to your delete button. Someone in particular that REALLY irks you? There's even a block feature! (that little red hand under the avatar).

As for what goals I wish to obtain, those aren't for public consumption. I don't post them in hopes of garnering accolades from people I don't even know.

As BeachMystress so succintly put it.....glass houses. stones. To which I add...pot....kettle...black.

Feh.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to jillwfsub4blkdom)

RE: "a true master" - 10/28/2004 8:47:18 PM

jillwfsub4blkdom

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it really is too bad that you missed the gist of the statement but am not going to waste my time to explain it.

jill

_____________________________

"It's the moment that transcends
Our physical into a more spiritual level of understanding" - Musiq

(in reply to BeachMystress)

RE: "a true master" - 10/29/2004 12:37:45 AM

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I responded to what you wrote in the forum with my honest opinion. I do not need hate mail in my INBOX from you because of it. If you are unable to deal with differing opinions, do not post in the forum.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to jillwfsub4blkdom)

RE: "a true master" - 10/29/2004 3:21:30 AM

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I realize what it is. It is another silly attempt to mold men into what women say they want; which is total BS. If women truly wanted this, then all the good guys would get laid and assholes like me would still be virgins.

_____________________________

Master Jerry

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: "a true master" - 10/29/2004 9:18:22 AM

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I am constantly amazed by the interpetations and motives ascribed to an author. In the interests of brevity, I'll reply to a number of comments here.

First, I didn't post this list to start the thread. Someone read my profile, liked what I said, and asked permission to post it in the forum. I granted that permission, following up for curiousity's sake more than anything else. The "garnering acolades" comment is specious.

Regarding the typographical convention of capitalizing Man and Master, is it not the general rule here to capitalize the pronouns of the dominant, regardless of gender? Just about all the communications I've come across capitalize the dominant as His, Him, Her, She, the One, etc etc. I've also seen the extreme case where both cases are used, as in Oour, and Wwe to indicate both the dominant and the submissive as a unit. I'm surprised that someone who reads my list and sees the capitalization used would assume that it's an attempt to 'fluff up' the author.

In the case of judgement, glass houses and black kettles; I don't claim that my reasoning or my reasons are for you. I cannot think for you, nor would I try. The notion that this list is better suited to romantic fantasy than a realistic situation presupposes some pretty unpleasant constraints on what is 'realistic.' Another way to say it is that my list isn't practical. That depends entirely on what one wants to practice, does it not? What is unrealistic about it?

Lastly, the notion of molding man into what a woman claims to want. The list in my profile is what I think it takes to be a 'good' dominant. A 'true' master. Good and True presupposes a definition of the good, which frequently differs between individuals, and more often than not has never even been thought about deeply. Most accept 'good' as that which makes them feel good, leaving their emotions to decide ethical and philosophical issues. That's mostly why assholes sometimes do well in the short term. They appeal to a certain set of emotions, and for many, that's sufficent. A deeper look considers health and life as factors that must be considered in 'good.' For the heroin addict, getting his next fix is 'good.' Objectively (gasp, what a word) it is not good, but a clear evil, destroying his ability to think and to live as a man, and ultimately, to live at all.

For those who feel compelled to support my position from an emotional basis, "It's sad that...." I appreciate your intention, but I welcome rational debate. The name callers and simpletons can be eliminated from consideration by simply asking them to defend their assertions. Most frequently, they won't even try. Somewhat less frequently, they will try, but when they look deeper into their stated view, they see the flaws in their reasoning. When that happens, they either become more wildly strident and irrational, or they back down and grow silent.

I remain,

John Galt

PS. Brevity perhaps isn't my strongest characteristc.

(in reply to lovingmaster45)

RE: "a true master" - 10/29/2004 9:24:47 AM

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quote:

I realize what it is. It is another silly attempt to mold men into what women say they want; which is total BS. If women truly wanted this, then all the good guys would get laid and assholes like me would still be virgins.

I agree wholeheartedly here. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "true" anything. People will still call themselves the name. Although it only remains true to themselves and no one else. My Dom can call me a true sub, where you can see me as Dominant. As we have discussed time and time again on the boards What my definition is does not necessarily mean it will be yours.

We might be able to agree what being a decent human being is, which in my mind is more of what the list is about.

(in reply to lovingmaster45)

RE: "a true master" - 10/29/2004 9:55:57 AM

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*WOW* i am amazed at the course this thread has taken.

quote:

Blech. I was turned off as soon as I realized that "Man" and "Master" were capitalized throughout. Someone who is so lacking in self-esteem that he needs to resort to things like that to make himself feel somehow "more" is no one that I'd ever be interested in, personally.

i was surprised at this ... This is something that i thought was the "norm". i know in forum i am not strict on the "rule" but i have never thought of it as a bad thing in anyway but one showing respect for a Dominate. Anyone else feel like Sherri does?

Personally i like Your profile John (picture doesn't hurt either *grins*) and i see nothing wrong with Your ideas of a "true Master".

quote:

I realize what it is. It is another silly attempt to mold men into what women say they want; which is total BS. If women truly wanted this, then all the good guys would get laid and assholes like me would still be virgins.
_____________________________

Master Jerry

i think we all fantasize about "bad boys" the rough tough passionate sex. (Not saying good guys are passionate) but for me having a fling or a night of fantasies is all in good but looking for the "One" my one "true Master" i want a good guy. i want someone who is caring and loving with a little sadistic side *grins*. I don't think He is trying to "mold" anyone into anything just stating what He aspires to be, what He feels are good qualities in a "true Master" and i don't see anything wrong with it.

JMO!!

~jenn~

_____________________________

~Subspace is my perfect paradise vacation from busy-mind... blessed be to the Dominant who can stamp my ticket there.~

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"

(in reply to JohnGalt)

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