RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling?

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RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:53:05 AM

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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

What convinces anyone Z is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

Well, the legal criteria for being guilty of manslaughter are:

1) Trayvon Martin is dead

and

2) George Zimmerman, through act or negligence, killed Trayvon Martin.

That's it. And since both facts are uncontested, I think the 'reasonable doubt' standard is well met.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:56:28 AM

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quote:

If Zimmerman was any closer than that at any point, then Zimmerman clearly cannot get over the 776.041 requirements before claiming 776.013(3).

OMG fargle

If the state cannot disprove Z's account, that he was checking an address (a claim supported by the tape), that T attacked him while he doing so, and was on fucking top of him beating him before trying to take Z's gun for the purpose of killing him, don't you think this 776.0213(3) shit is just that: shit?

The physical evidence disproves his story or there is no prosecution possible, only persecution under color of law.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:57:29 AM

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quote:

And then he negligently chased Trayvon Martin, while armed, and without legal authority.

What do you think happened when he caught up to Martin, and told Martin to stop and wait for the cops?

Martin told Zimmerman to go fuck himself, Zimmerman got very angry at Martin's disrespecting his non-existent authority, the only option Zimmerman's negligence left for him to detain Martin was to escalate by pulling his weapon. At that point, we leave negligence and enter "is is criminally negligent manslaughter, or is this all evidence of premeditation?"

Fantasy.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:58:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

He needlessly aggravated and escalated a situation that left a teenager dead (whatever that teen was/wasn't doing).

We do not know that for a fact. What we do know is that the only witness says otherwise.

My opinion remains that if the forensics do not match his narrative, then there is a need for a trial.

Let me ask you something.
If there is no physical evidence to challenge his narrative, what is the pathway to a conviction?
If the gummint does not have proof that it is Trayvon crying for help?
If the ME report backs up Z's account...
What convinces anyone Z is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?
Emotion?

"We don't need you to do that." Needlessly.

Professional help was on its way. Zimmerman wasn't willing to let it rest with that, whatever his motives.
The kid is dead.
Those are the facts we know.

The rest of your questions are things I've never said nor implied. Why are you asking me then? Emotion?

I did say a jury should sort this out. If he's innocent, so be it.

Stand Your Ground doesn't even apply here. He wasn't home, and was accosted only when he himself was pursuing the kid. If you want to play with questions, why doesn't SYG apply to the kid? We don't know.

Here are the facts we do know.

Professional help was on its way. Zimmerman wasn't willing to let it rest with that, whatever his motives.
"We don't need you to do that." Needlessly, he did it anyway.
The kid is dead.

That's what a jury should sort out.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 9:17:29 AM

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quote:

Here are the facts we do know.

Well, some of your facts are facts.

Professional help was on its way.

Okay. That's the "some"

Zimmerman wasn't willing to let it rest with that, whatever his motives.

He says he did, and the evidence backs him up, as far as we know.

"We don't need you to do that." Needlessly, he did it anyway.

Supposition. Pure supposition.

You know that you are advocating that the police arrest people without evidence?
Just to appease the mob, and then "let the jury deal with it".
Really disturbing.

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 4/6/2012 9:19:42 AM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 9:52:27 AM

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Really? Which of those aren't facts?

Dead guy in pursuit holding gun. I can think of a host of charges.

But then a Grand Jury isn't about deciding guilt, is it--but to decide whether to proceed.

That's what's happening. Hold your emotion in check while they sort it out.

quote:

Zimmerman wasn't willing to let it rest with that, whatever his motives.

He says he did, and the evidence backs him up, as far as we know.

Huh? If he let it rest, how did he happen to end up following Martin?

"We don't need you to do that." Needlessly, he did it anyway.

Supposition. Pure supposition.

I'm afraid not.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/6/2012 9:56:15 AM >

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 10:31:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

If Zimmerman was any closer than that at any point, then Zimmerman clearly cannot get over the 776.041 requirements before claiming 776.013(3).

OMG fargle

If the state cannot disprove Z's account, that he was checking an address (a claim supported by the tape), that T attacked him while he doing so, and was on fucking top of him beating him before trying to take Z's gun for the purpose of killing him, don't you think this 776.0213(3) shit is just that: shit?

The physical evidence disproves his story or there is no prosecution possible, only persecution under color of law.

quote:

That he was checking an address (a claim supported by the tape)

I call **BULLSHIT!**.. Let's see this transcript where he's checking an address and not pursuing Trayvon Martin.

And why would a neighborhood watch captain need to check an address? He's made like 50 9-1-1 calls, and we're supposed to believe he doesn't know WHAT STREET HE IS ON???

And why would Trayvon Martin attack Zimmerman?

Are you suggesting that Travyon Martin was a "Crazy Negro Who Just Snapped And Attacked Whitey"?

What's more likely, that George Zimmerman is a wanna-be cop who got in over his head, or that Trayvon Martin was a Crazy Negro Who Just Snapped And Attacked Whitey?

And if Zimmerman is going to claim that a reasonable and prudent person feared Great Bodily Harm or death, as a result of the trivial injuries he sustained, he's going to have to make that claim to a JURY, as under FLORIDA LAW, the JURY is the ultimate arbiter of FACT regarding the extent of injuries.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/6/2012 10:34:26 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 10:36:25 AM

Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

You know that you are advocating that the police arrest people without evidence?

What part of "Zimmerman is chargeable for manslaughter which has only 2 essential elements, both of which are uncontested' don't you understand?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 10:41:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Every transcript I have read says the same as the NYT.

Why don't you try listening? From your own daily mail Bottom recording. 1:55 or so.

Are you following him?
Yeah
We don't need you to do that.
OKAY

Fucking laughable, that exact same remark was in the NYT quote I posted. The one you dismissed as "slime".

First Zmmerman says okay, THEN continues to follow him. Seems its you who has a problem understanding what you are reading/hearing. Seems to me, using YOUR logic, if Zimmerman was following Martyn then it was Martyn who was within his rights to "Stand your ground".

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 11:11:06 AM

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quote:

Which of those aren't facts?

Dead guy in pursuit holding gun.

Been watching The Walking Dead?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 11:19:47 AM

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Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

that exact same remark was in the NYT quote I posted. The one you dismissed as "slime".

First Zmmerman says okay, THEN continues to follow him. Seems its you who has a problem understanding what you are reading/hearing. Seems to me, using YOUR logic, if Zimmerman was following Martyn then it was Martyn who was within his rights to "Stand your ground".

What you posted was that the police ordered Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon.
Clearly that was incorrect.
As is "THEN continues to follow him". The only witness tells a different tale; you have absolutely nothing to back that up except your own fevered imagination.

SYG is not a part of the defense, nor indeed of the case.
Another media effort at sensationalism.
This is open and shut self-defense with no retreat possible, according to Z, so no invocation of SYG has been made.

If the evidence disproves Zs narration, SYG is still not applicable, one imagines; in that case the state will paint Z as the aggressor. And, in that case (that is, if his narrative is concocted), he probably was.

You'll get up to speed. Someday. Maybe.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 11:59:43 AM

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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

What you posted was that the police ordered Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon.
Clearly that was incorrect.
As is "THEN continues to follow him". The only witness tells a different tale; you have absolutely nothing to back that up except your own fevered imagination.

SYG is not a part of the defense, nor indeed of the case.
Another media effort at sensationalism.
This is open and shut self-defense with no retreat possible, according to Z, so no invocation of SYG has been made.

If the evidence disproves Zs narration, SYG is still not applicable, one imagines; in that case the state will paint Z as the aggressor. And, in that case (that is, if his narrative is concocted), he probably was.

You'll get up to speed. Someday. Maybe.

Now you are openly lying. I have bolded the line.

"since the dispatcher told him not to follow the kid." << That is what I said in my post. The dispatcher clearly said "We dont need you to do that"

Feel free to show where I said anything different.

You are also wrong in suggesting Zimmerman didnt follow him after being told "We dont want you to do that" since he can clearly be heard to say the kid was running away.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 2:09:45 PM

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Has Zimmerman's statement been released anywhere? If so, could someone help me out with a link?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 2:17:24 PM

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I doubt there is one, I would think his necktie told him to suck a wad of cow piss and shut the fuck up.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 2:23:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

"since the dispatcher told him not to follow the kid." << That is what I said in my post. The dispatcher clearly said "We dont need you to do that"

Those are 2 different statements btw.

Meanwhile this is a pretty awesome video:

http://youtu.be/WpUAFGqwiJY

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 3:28:12 PM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

This is open and shut self-defense with no retreat possible, according to Z, so no invocation of SYG has been made.

Not according to those trivial injuries. You don't get to kill someone until a jury thinks a reasonable and prudent person would fear Great Bodily Harm ( in the legal context ) or Death from the injuries sustained.

And what do you think the jury is going to think of Zimmerman's trivial injuries, and whether he was REALLY getting his head smashed against the concrete. ( Apparently SO HARD as soon as the ambulance brought him into the ER they did a CAT scan of his skull because they were worried about contusions and depressed fractures... OH, WAIT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN! .. Nah.. The EMT's cancelled the ambulance because Zimmerman's injuries were trivials.....

Open and shut... If you're a blindfolded chimp with a pencil in their mouth.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 3:37:13 PM

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quote:

You don't get to kill someone until a jury thinks a reasonable and prudent person would fear Great Bodily Harm

You are perhaps unaware that Z said something to the effect of "You're going to die" and tried to take his gun from his holster?

More likely you are aware and just..... beating this dead horse instead of your dead meat.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 3:41:26 PM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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I discount it because the story, on it's face, makes no sense.

First, Why would Zimmerman, supposedly a neighborhood watch captain of some kind, need to check street names where he supposedly regularly patrols. WHY would he need to exit his vehicle to do this? Why didn't he call 9-1-1 to report that he lost Martin, and where he was last seen for the police.

And You haven't explained, other than the racist "Trayvon Martin, Crazed Negro SNAPPED and attacked George Zimmerman for NO REASON!", why Tryavon Martin would attack George Zimmerman in the first place, much less why Martin would be motivated to say the most ridiculous thing imaginable?

But then again, no even ever accused George Zimmerman of being intelligent, did they? So why should we expect his pathetic story to hold up to even to most light scrutiny.

So, tell us, (1) other than the racist "Crazed Negro Attacks Whitey For No Reason", what was Trayvon Martin's MOTIVE for attacking George Zimmerman?

(2) What was Zimmerman's motive for pursuing Trayvon Martin?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/6/2012 3:44:32 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 4:05:42 PM

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At this point I'm a little surprised that someone wearing a hoodie hasn't chased Zimmerman down and shot him because they felt threatened.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 4:32:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Has Zimmerman's statement been released anywhere? If so, could someone help me out with a link?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Plenty of links in the thread Michael.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

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