But... But... that just cannot be

But... But... that just cannot be (Full Version)

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Yachtie -> But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:17:19 AM)
NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday. Professor Patrick Pullicino said doctors had turned the use of a controversial ‘death pathway’ into the equivalent of euthanasia of the elderly. Death Panels? Jolly good[8\|] What an innovated approach to socialized medicine.

Sanity -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:20:49 AM)
IMAGINE the savings! Those socialist chaps are BRILLIANT, I tell you!!!

Musicmystery -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:23:13 AM)
Good thing Democrats didn't go that route then! Seriously, guys, if you're gonna cite international media, learn something about it. The "Mail" is like citing the National Enquirer.

Yachtie -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:39:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Good thing Democrats didn't go that route then! Seriously, guys, if you're gonna cite international media, learn something about it. The "Mail" is like citing the National Enquirer. Yeah, NE is basically trash but its gotten it right before, as the National Enquirer was up for a Pulitzer. Typical leftist response though MM. Jolly good[8\|]

kitkat105 -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:44:59 AM)
Hmm. I wouldn't normally bite at a scaremongering dailymail article but... is there really quality of life living forever? I mean, how many tablets would you be willing to keep you alive while you're body and mind slowly fails? Do you want to live in a nursing home? Not be able to shower yourself, go to the bathroom, or even walk outside your room? Not everyone stays at home, living independently till the age of 95. Withdrawal of treatment is NOT new. It goes hand in hand with palliation (not to be confused with euthanasia). I suggest before thinking us "socialists" are killing old people, it might be worthwhile reading about the mortality rates of cancer, pneumonia, cardiac failure, urinary tract infections and long bone fractures in anyone over the age of 70.

Moonhead -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:46:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Good thing Democrats didn't go that route then! Seriously, guys, if you're gonna cite international media, learn something about it. The "Mail" is like citing the National Enquirer. The Mail isn't quite as reputable or reliable as the Inquirer. It might also be worth googling professor Policinello (sic) and looking into what else he does besides lecturing neurology and why spreading hysterical (and completely unsubstantiated: note that he doesn't name or cite a single patient who has been put down) scare stories about socialised medicine might be a good long term career move, even if it does lose him his consultancy gig at Liverpool.

Musicmystery -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:46:19 AM)
"Typical leftist response" is a catch phrase for "I don't have any argument, so I'll use this as a substitute." Obviously, they've gotten it ridiculously wrong far more often than right. That brings us back to vetting. You're repeating the drivel, not looking into whether they've got it right this time. And that's a "typical bullshit post" here in P&R, if that's the level this discussion must go.

Yachtie -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:54:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 Hmm. I wouldn't normally bite at a scaremongering dailymail article but... is there really quality of life living forever? I mean, how many tablets would you be willing to keep you alive while you're body and mind slowly fails? The question is, whose decision is it whether one chases that extra day or not? Yours (if you can afford it) or the system (communal based, taxpayer supported, science dictated - say it as you wish) that's providing your care?

Moonhead -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:55:28 AM)
Of course, the really funny thing about the neocon massive citing the Fail is the shitfits they come out with whenever anybody dares use Huffpo (or one of the other Marxist internet news providers who Mitt claims are picking on him) as a source.

Yachtie -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 6:58:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery "Typical leftist response" is a catch phrase for "I don't have any argument, so I'll use this as a substitute." Obviously, they've gotten it ridiculously wrong far more often than right. Obviously, then, the story MUST be false. [8\|] That's what you're saying, isn't it?

Moonhead -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:00:30 AM)
It's from the fucking Mail, sunshine. Can you cite an example of a story from that which one of you guys has cited in here that wasn't hysterical scaremongering nonsense?

Musicmystery -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:10:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery "Typical leftist response" is a catch phrase for "I don't have any argument, so I'll use this as a substitute." Obviously, they've gotten it ridiculously wrong far more often than right. Obviously, then, the story MUST be false. [8\|] That's what you're saying, isn't it? Obviously, it must be true, is what you're saying. I'm saying that assumption is obviously false. You want to make a convincing case? Then build one. "But it could be true despite the overwhelming odds against it from this source" is a an argument I'd expect from a young student. That it's about vetting when you're doing no vetting is just richly ironic.

vincentML -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:16:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery "Typical leftist response" is a catch phrase for "I don't have any argument, so I'll use this as a substitute." Obviously, they've gotten it ridiculously wrong far more often than right. Obviously, then, the story MUST be false. [8\|] That's what you're saying, isn't it? The story fails on its own merits. It is based on only one cited case of a patient on the LCP under the blazing, unsupported headline that the NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year. No substantiation for that number nor any for the claim that fiscal considerations are involved. Furthermore, the OP link to "death panels" is bogus propaganda distortion of what the ACA is about. The original post is just a bunch of crap and demonstrates a lack of critical reading skills. In other words . . . bollocks!

Sanity -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:16:51 AM)
Leftists wont be happy unless we're exclusively quoting star far left "journalists" such as Chris Mathews and Dan Rather NBC and MSNBC Huffn poo and thinkmarxist.org Hence communist and hard line socialist dictates against free speech and a free press, anywhere their failed ideology can gain an exclusive foothold quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Good thing Democrats didn't go that route then! Seriously, guys, if you're gonna cite international media, learn something about it. The "Mail" is like citing the National Enquirer.

Musicmystery -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:20:38 AM)
Wrong again. My distain for modern TV "journalism" has been oft repeated here. Just never suits your agenda. Construct an argument. I've seen you do it once in all the time we've been here. Once. And you were convincing.

Lucylastic -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:27:40 AM)
bloody typical bullshit from the mail, The LCP is palliative care. Not life saving. It might behove some of you to learn the bloody difference. My sister is involved in palliative care and has been for 20 years. I myself have been involved in geriatric care in the UK and Canada for many years, have any of you that are claiming these are death panels ever been involved in the caring/nursing of severely ill/end of life situations in a hospital or care facility??? Withdrawl of treatment happens everywhere, Socialised medicine or private, US, Europe, USA and everywhere else. I agree with kitkat and the smarter chaps God some peoples ignorance is just astounding

Moonhead -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:29:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Leftists wont be happy unless we're exclusively quoting star far left "journalists" such as Chris Mathews and Dan Rather Neither of whom is as far to the left as even Morgan Spurlock or "factchecker" Moore. Describing slightly left of centre television hacks as part of the ominous socialist media conspiracy just calls your own stance and bias into question. It's news to me that NBC is run as a collective, put it that way...

mnottertail -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:30:15 AM)
Its the Daily Mail, if the corresponding article isnt in our National Enquirer, it is an: /EndThread

kitkat105 -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:32:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 Hmm. I wouldn't normally bite at a scaremongering dailymail article but... is there really quality of life living forever? I mean, how many tablets would you be willing to keep you alive while you're body and mind slowly fails? The question is, whose decision is it whether one chases that extra day or not? Yours (if you can afford it) or the system (communal based, taxpayer supported, science dictated - say it as you wish) that's providing your care? In my experience of seeing people die, withdrawal of treatment rarely speeds up death. Giving these patients who are already dying extra treatment (eg. intravenous fluids, antibiotics, etc) prolongs their death and adds more issues to their current problem (because for example, their kidneys can't deal with the fluids, their liver can't process the antibiotics). Withdrawal of treatment is always discussed with the next of kin or medical power of attorney. No matter what the dailymail might have you believe. Some of us even have advanced directives clearly stating what we want to happen when we are dying.

Yachtie -> RE: But... But... that just cannot be (6/20/2012 7:38:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Obviously, it must be true, is what you're saying. Not at all. The story may very well be false. But you're the one who attacked the messenger, not I. Given the economics of it, I'd place my bet that it's more right than wrong. quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead It's from the fucking Mail, sunshine. Since you wish to go after source and not content, I guess MSNBC would be better?

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