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RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/4/2013 10:54:37 PM

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quote:

Many of those "kids" were 18.

I refer to anybody who is in high school as a kid. They may have stopped being juveniles, but that doesn't make them grown-up (not that that's an excuse for reprehensible behavior, of course).

Although, are you sure they were 18? Given that all of the players were in high school, and it happened at the beginning of the school year, I wouldn't be surprised if they were 17. They might be 18 by now, but that doesn't mean they were when the rape was committed, which is an important distinction (legally speaking).

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/4/2013 11:02:09 PM

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Social Host & Drunk Driver Criminal Law

In general, there are two types of liability that could be placed on a social host for a drunk driver.

The first is criminal liability. If a social host is found to be criminally liable for a drunk driver, then the host could face fines or jail time.

In most states, criminal action is likely under two scenarios:

If the social host serves a minor at the party and then the minor gets into an accident, the social host will likely face criminal charges in connection with the accident. The seriousness of the charges will depend on the seriousness of any injuries sustained in the accident.

If a partygoer is visibly intoxicated but the host continues to serve this person, then the social host will likely face criminal charges if an accident occurs. Under the law, the social host should use discretion when serving guests who are already drunk. Otherwise, the host's actions may be considered reckless.
In addition, in many states, if minors have a party at the house of a parent and serve alcohol, the parents may be liable for any drunk driving accidents that occur. This is true even if the parents were not home at the time.

http://www.attorneys.com/dui-dwi/social-host-alcohol-liability/

It can extend to criminal liability.

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RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/4/2013 11:07:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Social Host & Drunk Driver Criminal Law

In general, there are two types of liability that could be placed on a social host for a drunk driver.

The first is criminal liability. If a social host is found to be criminally liable for a drunk driver, then the host could face fines or jail time.

In most states, criminal action is likely under two scenarios:

If the social host serves a minor at the party and then the minor gets into an accident, the social host will likely face criminal charges in connection with the accident. The seriousness of the charges will depend on the seriousness of any injuries sustained in the accident.

If a partygoer is visibly intoxicated but the host continues to serve this person, then the social host will likely face criminal charges if an accident occurs. Under the law, the social host should use discretion when serving guests who are already drunk. Otherwise, the host's actions may be considered reckless.
In addition, in many states, if minors have a party at the house of a parent and serve alcohol, the parents may be liable for any drunk driving accidents that occur. This is true even if the parents were not home at the time.

http://www.attorneys.com/dui-dwi/social-host-alcohol-liability/

It can extend to criminal liability.

That is all well and good, but you are forgetting that in small town america, high school football players are gods. You have to get a jury to convict them first.

And if they are a winning team and not habitual losers, the odds are it will be said that "they were boys that got out of control, we are sure it wont happen again, and even if it does, boys will be boys."

I have said it before, i have a piss poor opinion of the human race in general. I have seen too many predators in slam dunk, air tight cases walk because of various reasons that justify what they did ranging from "they were drunk and out of control" to "the girl asked for it."

My personal opinion is that sexual predators are not human. They are animals that mimic human behavior and appearance to get close to their prey, but that is as human as they get. They should be hunted down and exterminated with their heads placed on a pike for everyone to see.

_____________________________

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(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/4/2013 11:13:50 PM

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quote:

Although, are you sure they were 18? Given that all of the players were in high school, and it happened at the beginning of the school year, I wouldn't be surprised if they were 17. They might be 18 by now, but that doesn't mean they were when the rape was committed, which is an important distinction (legally speaking).

The chances of witnesses being 18 in a large crowd of high school students where alcohol is being served is great if you consider that some, depending on their dates of birth, would be 18 long before graduation. Too early to be off for college.... graduation done.... I feel quite safe is saying there were adults at that party of over 50 people.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to muhly22222)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/4/2013 11:27:51 PM

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I dont expect the girl to get a fair trial in criminal court. What will be interesting are the civil suits that come out of this. Many admitted to possessing child pornography thigh, after admitting theur videotaped or took photos.

I wont be surprised to see someone come in and take over the case since the town is so inept.

But, by state law, its definitely rape.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.02

And, wow, I missed this before... apparently the parties began at the home of one of the volunteer coaches

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-case-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&seid=auto&smid=tw-nytimessports

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 1/4/2013 11:28:25 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/4/2013 11:56:38 PM

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quote:

I wont be surprised to see someone come in and take over the case since the town is so inept.

I would certainly expect that, too. I can even tell you that it'll be a special unit in the Ohio Attorney General's office, the Special Prosecutions Unit. This is just the kind of case they get involved in. Really, they should have been involved from the beginning, but since the prosecutor (who had at least a marginal conflict of interest, and probably a major conflict of interest) was clearly not doing her job, they weren't asked in like they should have been.

quote:

The chances of witnesses being 18 in a large crowd of high school students where alcohol is being served is great if you consider that some, depending on their dates of birth, would be 18 long before graduation. Too early to be off for college.... graduation done.... I feel quite safe is saying there were adults at that party of over 50 people.

Sure, although witnesses aren't necessarily perpetrators. The main perpetrators here, the ones that deserve the bulk of the opprobium, were likely 17. Again, though, it's a legal difference, not a moral one. They knew better, and they should be punished. And I'm certainly not opposed to Ohio trying them as adults.

quote:

It can extend to criminal liability.

After reading this, I hopped on my fancy lawyer-researching tool (ok, it's just LexisNexis). According to the case of Great Cent. Ins. Co. v. Tobias, 37 Ohio St. 3d 127, 129 (1988), the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that Ohio law does not apply civil liability to social hosts of intoxicated guests when those guests later cause an accident. If the state doesn't apply civil liability, I can assure you that it does not apply criminal liability, although I couldn't find any cases or statutes specifically saying that.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 12:20:38 AM

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From what I have read, there seems to be a call for a special prosecutor to be assigned to the case.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to muhly22222)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 2:46:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

The fact that you think it has anything to do with one particular country, instead of being common worldwide, gives me the shudders.

It is exactly that sort of thinking that fuels the coverups... worldwide.

*Sigh*

Put the strawman back in the cupboard, Powergamz. We both know I didn't say that.

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RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 5:46:06 AM

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quote:

Sure, although witnesses aren't necessarily perpetrators. The main perpetrators here, the ones that deserve the bulk of the opprobium, were likely 17. Again, though, it's a legal difference, not a moral one. They knew better, and they should be punished. And I'm certainly not opposed to Ohio trying them as adults.

The main perpetrators were 16.

quote:

After reading this, I hopped on my fancy lawyer-researching tool (ok, it's just LexisNexis). According to the case of Great Cent. Ins. Co. v. Tobias, 37 Ohio St. 3d 127, 129 (1988), the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that Ohio law does not apply civil liability to social hosts of intoxicated guests when those guests later cause an accident.

Dram Shop Laws and Related Legal Actions:
State Has a Dram Shop Law (Yes/No): Yes §§4399.01, 4399.02 and 4399.18

Dram Shop Actions-Social Hosts:

Yes Limited A social host is not liable for the actions of an intoxicated adult guest. Settlemyer v. Wilmington Veterans Post No. 49. American
Legion, Inc., 464 N.E.2d 521 (Ohio 1984).
However, a social host may be held liable for either the death or injury of a third person caused by an intoxicated minor guest. Mitseff v. Wheeler,
526 N.E.2d 798 (Ohio 1988), Huston v. Konieczny, 556 N.E.2d 505 (Ohio 1990), and Williams v. Veterans of Foreign Wars. 650 N.E.2d 175 (Ohio App. 2 Dist. 1994)

http://www.socialhostliability.org/NHTSA/Ohio.pdf

Under Ohio law, a social host is barred from providing alcohol to people under the age of 21. The Ohio Revised Code § 4301.69(A) and (B) provide the following:

(A) [N]o person shall sell beer or intoxicating liquor to an underage person, shall buy beer or intoxicating liquor for an underage person, or shall furnish it to an underage person, unless given by a physician in the regular line of the physician’s practice or given for established religious purposes or unless the underage person is supervised by a parent, spouse who is not an underage person, or legal guardian. . .

(B) No person who is the owner or occupant of any public or private place shall knowingly allow any underage person to remain in or on the place while possessing or consuming beer or intoxicating liquor, unless the intoxicating liquor or beer is given to the person possessing or consuming it by that person’s parent, spouse who is not an underage person, or legal guardian and the parent, spouse who is not an underage person, or legal guardian is present at the time of the person’s possession or consumption of the beer or intoxicating liquor.

Under Ohio law, a person who knowingly allows a person under the age of 21 to drink alcohol on their premises is guilty of a first degree misdemeanor. A first degree misdemeanor in Ohio is punishable by a $1,000 fine and/or up to six months in jail.

Additionally, social hosts face civil liability under certain circumstances. A social host can be found liable if they knowingly allow a person under the age of 21 to drink, and that person later injures or kills another person.

http://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/underage-drinking-and-social-host-liability-in-ohio.html

The difference being these were minors.

quote:

If the state doesn't apply civil liability, I can assure you that it does not apply criminal liability, although I couldn't find any cases or statutes specifically saying that.

See above.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 1/5/2013 5:47:08 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to muhly22222)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 7:19:49 AM

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quote:

However, a social host may be held liable for either the death or injury of a third person caused by an intoxicated minor guest. Mitseff v. Wheeler,
526 N.E.2d 798 (Ohio 1988), Huston v. Konieczny, 556 N.E.2d 505 (Ohio 1990), and Williams v. Veterans of Foreign Wars. 650 N.E.2d 175 (Ohio App. 2 Dist. 1994)

quote:

Under Ohio law, a person who knowingly allows a person under the age of 21 to drink alcohol on their premises is guilty of a first degree misdemeanor. A first degree misdemeanor in Ohio is punishable by a $1,000 fine and/or up to six months in jail.

Additionally, social hosts face civil liability under certain circumstances. A social host can be found liable if they knowingly allow a person under the age of 21 to drink, and that person later injures or kills another person.

That would be correct if we assume that the adults who owned the premises were present or supplied the beer/other alcohol. I didn't see anything indicating that was the case, though. And knowing how small towns work with respect to star athletes, I would be surprised if an adult had to purchase the alcohol at all. Again, though, I don't remember seeing anything about that happening.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 7:25:24 AM

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It was held at a volunteer coach's home. Are you suggesting they broke in?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to muhly22222)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 7:28:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It was held at a volunteer coach's home. Are you suggesting they broke in?

Is the coach jailed? he should be.

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RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 7:29:53 AM

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Oddly enough, I cant find that out. His name hasnt been released. But, the party apparently started at his house with over 50 kids, then they all drifted off to other spots.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 7:35:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oddly enough, I cant find that out. His name hasnt been released. But, the party apparently started at his house with over 50 kids, then they all drifted off to other spots.

That's what I saw when I read about it initially. Do that around here and you get to go to the greybar hotel.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 7:36:21 AM

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Someone needs to investigate the whole investigation. This seems like one hot mess from day one.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 7:42:37 AM

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And finally, this regime goes beyond mere protection. Big Red Football Players are rewarded for their athletic prowess with a carefully moderated system of vice. Assistant Coach Pierro handles this aspect of the “program”, allowing the boys to view porn on his computer – and even providing drugs and alcohol to those who are “extra” deserving. Pierro is assisted in his seedy duties by none other than James Parks, profiled above. The drugs for the boys “entertainment” are supplied by known local drug dealer Nathan Hubbard, who is also a patron of the Spot Bar in Steubenville from which he is known to peddle his poisons.
from the link the OP posted, http://localleaks.blogs.ru/
of course, nothing is"proven yet"

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(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 7:59:54 AM

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Seems the trial date for probable cause was pushed back?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 9:03:21 AM

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Bullshit, I directly quoted your exact words, and added nothing.

That is exactly what you said, *after* the link about the Japanese school rapes, and star rapists across the globe were posted... (not to mention the public gang rapes in India being all over the headlines). It is an international problem, period.

Either you knew that and chose to misprepresent it, or you chose to keep your head in the sand about the scope of the problem. Either way is repugnant.

By attempting to link such events to a singular location, you are carrying water for the 'It can't happen here' insular belief structures that quickly turn into 'Those outsiders are making us look bad' coverups.

Rape, rape with impunity, and covering up rape for the 'right people', aren't Us vs. Them, they are Us vs. the culture of Rape... which exists worldwide.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

The fact that you think it has anything to do with one particular country, instead of being common worldwide, gives me the shudders.

It is exactly that sort of thinking that fuels the coverups... worldwide.

*Sigh*

Put the strawman back in the cupboard, Powergamz. We both know I didn't say that.

_____________________________

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RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 10:44:52 AM

hlen5

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The whole situation is revolting and sickening. The picture of the unconscious girl being carried like a dead deer alone puts me off any further conversation about "legalities". Burn the frickin' town down.

(in reply to Powergamz1)

RE: Rape, football and Anonymous - 1/5/2013 11:10:43 AM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

The whole situation is revolting and sickening. The picture of the unconscious girl being carried like a dead deer alone puts me off any further conversation about "legalities". Burn the frickin' town down.

While I certainly sympathize with the sentiment, I hope you're not even remotely serious.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to hlen5)

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