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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

1) "Sex before Marriage is a Sin".

I've not read anything in the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John that says sex before Marriage is a sin.

Then you haven't read them. Or else you skipped over the big words you didn't understand, like "fornication."

Matthew 15:19, Mark 7:21, John 8:41

K.

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Human beings without the artificial constraints of religion would likely conduct themselves much more like our closest cousins, chimpanzees and bonobos.

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ORIGINAL: littleladybug

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

Let me tell you a super secret about men. They don't know what they want when it comes to marriage and kids, for certain.

Can you tell me where that is in the Handbook so I can have it for future reference?

*sarcasm off*

I have spent much time with the new man in my life discussing this very issue. (As it relates to him, not to "all men".) What kind of fool would *I* be if I entered into this relationship thinking that I could change his views on these things, even though he has stated them outright? Which is not to say that they won't ever change...people are certainly entitled to change their minds as circumstances warrant. There are enough unknowns that we have to deal with in relationships. To ignore when someone says that something is a clear "yes" or "no"? IMO, that's just foolishness, and a recipe for disaster.

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You can speak for ALL men?

My former Dom/Husband ...

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ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

~FRing it~

Frankly I think it's a HUGE mistake to not listen to the person when they tell you flat out they are not interested in marriage or family AND their desire for sex outside of marriage conflicts with one's own moral code. It's an even bigger mistake to piss away your life or sell out your faith in the hopes that MAYBE one day he MIGHT change his mind [8|]

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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You can speak for ALL men?

My former Dom/Husband ...

I can speak to the subject knowing most men think the same way....

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

~FRing it~

Frankly I think it's a HUGE mistake to not listen to the person when they tell you flat out they are not interested in marriage or family AND their desire for sex outside of marriage conflicts with one's own moral code. It's an even bigger mistake to piss away your life or sell out your faith in the hopes that MAYBE one day he MIGHT change his mind [8|]

I think it is a HUGE mistake to ignore your feelings for this man and turn you back on him because at this point in his life he thinks he does not want marriage or family. Besides, how many times do you ask a guy you are dating if he wants children and expect him to call you next Saturday.

We have also seen Jesus is fine with her moral code as long as she does not marry him and then commit adultery. Let me also remind everyone that she is talking about dating the man she loves and seeing where that might lead in their relationship whereas most here are getting the cart before the horse, i.e, let's use a checklist on the guy like we are examining a potential Dom and see if what his hard limits are and how they match with hers.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

~FRing it~

Frankly I think it's a HUGE mistake to not listen to the person when they tell you flat out they are not interested in marriage or family AND their desire for sex outside of marriage conflicts with one's own moral code. It's an even bigger mistake to piss away your life or sell out your faith in the hopes that MAYBE one day he MIGHT change his mind [8|]

I think it is a HUGE mistake to ignore your feelings for this man and turn you back on him because at this point in his life he thinks he does not want marriage or family. Besides, how many times do you ask a guy you are dating if he wants children and expect him to call you next Saturday.

We have also seen Jesus is fine with her moral code as long as she does not marry him and then commit adultery. Let me also remind everyone that she is talking about dating the man she loves and seeing where that might lead in their relationship whereas most here are getting the cart before the horse, i.e, let's use a checklist on the guy like we are examining a potential Dom and see if what his hard limits are and how they match with hers.

...and by the way, hard limits are not so hard in reality, are they. Neither are limits on many life goals at any given point in a man's life.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

I can speak to the subject knowing most men think the same way. I suspect that is good enough for this subject.

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Look at what you wrote and then come back and say you ex knew what he "firmly" desired, or you for that matter.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas


Sarcasm does not wear well with anyone who wishes to discuss things as adults.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas


If you are paying attention, and this is a good thing if you wish to discuss this further, one is not talking about changing a mind made up but instead realizing that life decisions dealing with marriage and children are not firmly in concrete at this point, no matter what he says or she says. The important thing is her love for him and he for her. Love does indeed conquer all.

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ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

P.S. Are you both male? Is gay marriage an option where you live and is it accepted by your branch of the church? Because if not, that brings up a whole much bigger round of issues.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

~FRing it~

Frankly I think it's a HUGE mistake to not listen to the person when they tell you flat out they are not interested in marriage or family AND their desire for sex outside of marriage conflicts with one's own moral code. It's an even bigger mistake to piss away your life or sell out your faith in the hopes that MAYBE one day he MIGHT change his mind [8|]

I think it is a HUGE mistake to ignore your feelings for this man and turn you back on him because at this point in his life he thinks he does not want marriage or family. Besides, how many times do you ask a guy you are dating if he wants children and expect him to call you next Saturday.

We have also seen Jesus is fine with her moral code as long as she does not marry him and then commit adultery. Let me also remind everyone that she is talking about dating the man she loves and seeing where that might lead in their relationship whereas most here are getting the cart before the horse, i.e, let's use a checklist on the guy like we are examining a potential Dom and see what his hard limits are and how they match with hers.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

In the Gospels that word "fornication" is also used only in the context of sex with another man's wife. Try reading the Bible rather than doing Google searches if you wish to discuss it.

The word being translated as "fornication" is pornia, not moicheia. The literal meaning is sex for material gain, commonly money (Gr. porne, "prostitute"), but in a theological context it includes engaging in sex for purely physical (i.e., material) pleasure. Fornication is a species of idolatry, in which the material replaces or is substituted for the spiritual. Adultery, on the other hand, is purely a legal matter.

Incidentally, this explains why people intuitively recognize "but we love each other" as a spiritually valid defense against the charge of fornication, doctrine to the contrary notwithstanding, and also why it is possible to engage in fornication even within an otherwise technically legal marriage.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

P.S. Are you both male? Is gay marriage an option where you live and is it accepted by your branch of the church? Because if not, that brings up a whole much bigger round of issues.

If my memory serves me right, yes his profile did say he was male. It is coming up not found right now, so I can't double check. Which makes me wonder how he was planning on having a family with another male partner unless he plans on adopting kids and why he was only focusing on the "no sex before marriage" aspect.

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ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

Human beings without the artificial constraints of religion would likely conduct themselves much more like our closest cousins, chimpanzees and bonobos.

My answer to your question is that you should spend a few years being a stupid, reckless kid just like most of the rest of us did and stop worrying about putting yourself or anyone else in that straitjacket. [/font]

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ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

Whether the Bible truly condemns premarital sex is irrelevant to it being against the OP's morals. She may or may not blame her faith, but the result will still be that she is not comfortable with sex and children before marriage, and this should be respected.

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ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

Human beings without the artificial constraints of religion would likely conduct themselves much more like our closest cousins, chimpanzees and bonobos.

My answer to your question is that you should spend a few years being a stupid, reckless kid just like most of the rest of us did and stop worrying about putting yourself or anyone else in that straitjacket.

1.) Complete bullshit. This is to say that atheists and other non-theists behave like animals when this isn't the case. In fact it's just as likely for a non-religious type to act uncivilized because of the lack of a God than it is for a religious person to commit the same crimes because "It's cool, Jesus died for my sins."

Religion is not the only source of morality in humans. And to say that you need religion to be a "good" person makes you NOT a good person.

2.) Perfect advice. Go ahead and compromise your morals, doing everything you think is wrong, because you don't really know what you want yet. Sounds like the OP at least has a clear idea of what she doesn't want, which is just as valid.