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Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 7:39:05 PM

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Please watch the video at the link. The print story does not provide the video content.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-missouri-st-louis-police-shooting-teen-20140811-story.html#page=1

There are too many facts yet to come out on this case, so I'm not sure yet if I'm going with, "fucking power-happy cop bastard," or "well, yeah, what did you think was going to happen when you assaulted a cop over your right to be a douchebag."

Whichever way it goes, I'm curious what people think of the assertion that looting and burning is the proper response.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 7:56:04 PM

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It didn't work out so well in the 60s.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:00:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Please watch the video at the link. The print story does not provide the video content.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-missouri-st-louis-police-shooting-teen-20140811-story.html#page=1

There are too many facts yet to come out on this case, so I'm not sure yet if I'm going with, "fucking power-happy cop bastard," or "well, yeah, what did you think was going to happen when you assaulted a cop over your right to be a douchebag."

Whichever way it goes, I'm curious what people think of the assertion that looting and burning is the proper response.

The people being looted and burned had nothing to do with the incident, regardless of whether it's the cop or it's the dead person (we don't know the facts, yet, so I can neither call him victim nor criminal). Therefore, it's disgusting behavior. If the KKK killed a black man, then yes I can understand a riot at the Grand Wizard's personal store. This is anarchy.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:01:44 PM

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It IS the American culture of guns and the culture that it has produced, local law enforcement's answer...shoot to kill and ask questions later.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 8/11/2014 8:02:31 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:08:21 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Please watch the video at the link. The print story does not provide the video content.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-missouri-st-louis-police-shooting-teen-20140811-story.html#page=1

There are too many facts yet to come out on this case, so I'm not sure yet if I'm going with, "fucking power-happy cop bastard," or "well, yeah, what did you think was going to happen when you assaulted a cop over your right to be a douchebag."

Whichever way it goes, I'm curious what people think of the assertion that looting and burning is the proper response.

This is starting to sound like a case we had in Selma a few years back.
All of the witness's, about 2 dozen, swore that a cop showed up for a domestic dispute call. A 15 or 16 year old panicked and started running and the cop shot him in the back while he was running away.
The Cop claimed the kid attacked him grabbed his gun shoved him down and tried to shoot him.
There wasn't a round in the chamber so while the kid was jacking one in the cop claimed he pulled his backup and shot him till he fell down.
All the activists and the NAACP demanded that the cop be charged with murder and the chief fired.
The coroners report showed that the kid was shot at close range, from in front and below, with the cops backup weapon.
The activists claimed cover up.
Then the cops released the tape from the cops dash cam (put there because of complaints of brutality) showed the kid attack the cop, grab his gun, and try to shoot him, finally being shot with the cops backup while trying to jack a round into the chamber.
Two weeks later the NAACP still held the march demanding that the cop be charged with murder.
I am not saying that is what happened here but there are things in the popularly accepted story that don't quite fit. Maybe we should wait for the rest of the information.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:15:06 PM

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There does seem to be a contradiction between the claims from the family that the dead kid was a good boy who was heading off to college and never got into trouble, and the reports that the Quik-E-Mart was burned because they had accused the dead kid of stealing from the store.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:18:25 PM

kdsub

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This is the St Louis area...I live here

When a black man walked into my hometown's council meeting and shot and killed 7 innocent white men and women... did white people break into stores and loot?

When a black man walked up to my hometown police officer and shot him... then followed the crawling police officer up the street telling him how he was going to blow his brains out... then when the officer asked for help from black bystanders they just watched as the man put the gun to his head and killed him.... did white people riot and loot?

When the 70 year old white man and his wife were walking down the street and a group of passing black men decided to play the knockout game and hit the unsuspecting man so hard it killed him.... did the white people riot and loot?

When the white family got lost after a ballgame and ended up in N. St Louis and a group of black men dragged the man from his car and beat him to death in front of his wife and children... did the white people riot and loot?

When a young white girl stopped at an intersection a black man opened her door and tried to take her cell phone... she was talking to her mother... her mother got to hear her daughters screams as the man shot her dead... did white people riot and loot?

There are many good decent black men and women in Ferguson that are asking for answers and demonstrating in the streets and NOT rioting... but those that are...are the word we can't use without moderation.

I'm mad... as you can tell... and if any of those bastards come onto my property they will get a butt full of buckshot.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/11/2014 8:34:46 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:18:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Maybe we should wait for the rest of the information.

I agree, although I wonder why they would wait to release the information. At this point (according to the OP's article), they still haven't released the dash cam from this incident, saying that it's still in boxes at the police department. That's part of why there's a lack of trust, since they should release all the information immediately, not wait a few days or weeks. Withholding information or delaying its release only makes the cops look like they're covering up. And that's how riots happen.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:22:01 PM

kdsub

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Ferguson police do not have dash cams. How ever according to the officer a shot was fired inside the police car... there should be evidence of that anyway.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/11/2014 8:23:22 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:23:10 PM

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The video isn't in the box, Zonie. There is no dash cam in the car. They bought the cameras, but haven't installed them. It's exactly the same as when the LASD bought cameras for the jail to address concerns about the horrific abuse of inmates by gangs of deputies, and never installed them. To me, that's a ding against the credibility of the police dept. in this case.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:26:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The video isn't in the box, Zonie. There is no dash cam in the car. They bought the cameras, but haven't installed them. It's exactly the same as when the LASD bought cameras for the jail to address concerns about the horrific abuse of inmates by gangs of deputies, and never installed them. To me, that's a ding against the credibility of the police dept. in this case.

Ah, okay, it appears I misread that. Thanks for the correction. Still, I agree that they should have installed the cameras.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:27:54 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Maybe we should wait for the rest of the information.

I agree, although I wonder why they would wait to release the information. At this point (according to the OP's article), they still haven't released the dash cam from this incident, saying that it's still in boxes at the police department. That's part of why there's a lack of trust, since they should release all the information immediately, not wait a few days or weeks. Withholding information or delaying its release only makes the cops look like they're covering up. And that's how riots happen.

Cops have to deal with a lot of red tape in releasing anything like this, we never completely get their evidence till everyone else has given their opinion.
Among other things the last thing the cops need is to take a quick look proclaim the cop to be innocent and them find something else that proves he is guilty. One thing they have revealed is that the cop has been on the force for several years and there has never been a complaint against him.
Seems strange (though not impossible) that his first offense would be murder.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:43:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

It IS the American culture of guns and the culture that it has produced, local law enforcement's answer...shoot to kill and ask questions later.

That must be why French Muslims are assaulting and killing Jews. Because of the French culture of guns.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 8:52:23 PM

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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

It IS the American culture of guns and the culture that it has produced, local law enforcement's answer...shoot to kill and ask questions later.

I don't see what that statement has to do with the topic. Could you check the polarity on your tin-foil hat, and maybe try again, Rodgers? (Remember, it's supposed to be shiny side in)

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 10:21:39 PM

ThirdWheelWanted

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I agree, although I wonder why they would wait to release the information. At this point (according to the OP's article), they still haven't released the dash cam from this incident, saying that it's still in boxes at the police department. That's part of why there's a lack of trust, since they should release all the information immediately, not wait a few days or weeks. Withholding information or delaying its release only makes the cops look like they're covering up. And that's how riots happen.

They can't necessarily release information right away. First off, it's an active investigation. It's against procedure to comment on an open investigation. Second, at the time the article was written, the officer involved may not have given a statement yet. Police aren't required to make an immediate statement after a shooting. Depending on the location, they have 24-48 hours before they're required to do so. Knowing the shit-storm that was going to result, he may very well have wanted to consult a lawyer before making a statement, which is also his right.

I was involved in a similar incident when I was a kid, 14-16ish. My friends and I were riding to a comic book store located a town over. The fastest route was down a highway. The inner lane was closed for repair, but they weren't actively working on it, so it seemed safer to ride in that lane behind the safety barrels rather then on the shoulder. A car pulled up and the driver yelled at us to get the fuck out of the middle of the road. We flipped him off and kept riding. He then pulled out a badge and started screaming at us, making threats, being verbally abusive, just an over-all asshole. Now we could have yelled back. Tried to run. Flipped him off again. Etc. And escalated the situation. Instead we got the fuck out of the middle of the road, took down his plate number, and told our parents when we got home.

When some of our parents called this in, we got an apology and told that it would be "looked into". We never heard anything more, and maybe that was just them blowing smoke. But what didn't happen, none of us were shot. I don't know what really happened here. The kid may be at fault, or it may be the cop. What I do know is that too many people seem to think they have the right to mouth off and get aggressive because "fuck the police!" and shit of that ilk.

As far as looting, it seems silly to penalize shop owners as a means of getting "justice".

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/11/2014 10:43:22 PM

Gauge

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This is a fast reply.

Nothing says solidarity in grief than stealing shit from stores.

You want to demonstrate, go snarl traffic on the highway by sitting a few hundred people in the middle of the road, or march down to city hall together, or hold signs. People who use this shit to loot are people that just need an excuse to go steal stuff and likely don't feel a damn thing for what happened, because they are only thinking of themselves.

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"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/12/2014 1:18:20 AM

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Yeah ... I should have organized some riots when the socialist piece of shit killed my son to advance the muslim brotherhood. I guess I missed the boat.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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(in reply to Gauge)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/12/2014 1:39:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Yeah ... I should have organized some riots when the socialist piece of shit killed my son to advance the muslim brotherhood. I guess I missed the boat.

Just a FYI:
"socialist" pieces of whatever are found on the left of the political spectrum; while the Muslim Brotherhood is found on the right side of the same spectrum, quite near the end (probably in close proximity to your position on the spectrum if your posts are anything to go by).

They cannot inhabit the same body as they are mutually exclusive. Duh!

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/12/2014 1:41:49 AM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/12/2014 2:48:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Please watch the video at the link. The print story does not provide the video content.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-missouri-st-louis-police-shooting-teen-20140811-story.html#page=1
There are too many facts yet to come out on this case, so I'm not sure yet if I'm going with, "fucking power-happy cop bastard," or "well, yeah, what did you think was going to happen when you assaulted a cop over your right to be a douchebag."
Whichever way it goes, I'm curious what people think of the assertion that looting and burning is the proper response.

Rioting and looting aren't the proper responses. The businesses that were damaged didn't push back against government. Unless the businesses and Mini-Mart were run by the cop that shot the kid, the reaction wasn't addressing the real problem.

I hope the investigation of the shooting finds the truth and that the proper justice is served. I also hope the same thing for an investigation into the rioting, looting, and arson.

You aren't really pushing back against government by destroying someone else's property. You're basically attacking your fellow citizen, giving government a reason to come after you.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/12/2014 5:36:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I agree, although I wonder why they would wait to release the information. At this point (according to the OP's article), they still haven't released the dash cam from this incident, saying that it's still in boxes at the police department. That's part of why there's a lack of trust, since they should release all the information immediately, not wait a few days or weeks. Withholding information or delaying its release only makes the cops look like they're covering up. And that's how riots happen.

They can't necessarily release information right away. First off, it's an active investigation. It's against procedure to comment on an open investigation. Second, at the time the article was written, the officer involved may not have given a statement yet. Police aren't required to make an immediate statement after a shooting. Depending on the location, they have 24-48 hours before they're required to do so. Knowing the shit-storm that was going to result, he may very well have wanted to consult a lawyer before making a statement, which is also his right.

I understand that they have procedures they need to follow, although that's what I would question. There has to be a better way to promote openness and transparency, especially when the clock is ticking and public anger can be fed by the rumor mill and escalate very quickly - which is what happened in this case.

quote:

As far as looting, it seems silly to penalize shop owners as a means of getting "justice".

I think the looting and burning seems to go with the territory. I recall it was like that during the LA riots of '92, after the Rodney King verdict.

The guy who was interviewed in front of the Quik Trip was saying that by burning businesses, it undermines the local tax base, which is less money going to local government and the police department. I think that's analogous to cutting off one's nose to spite one's face, although if they went after government buildings or the police HQ itself, then it would probably bring about a greater escalation.

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)

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