RE: The great military genius (Full Version)

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Made2Obey -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 11:13:10 AM)

I find it interesting that the press was reporting how the Vinson battle group was being shadowed by Russian and Chinese spy ships as it approached NK, then suddenly they are reporting it 3500 miles away. Makes one wonder about the truth behind the Philadelphia Experiment. 😊

BTW - for those asking a task force usually moves at around 12 kts so as to allow the fleet oilers (fuel ships) to keep up. The Vinson itself is nuclear, but most of the group will be fueled by bunker oil. Outrunning your fuel supply on the way into a possible conflict situation is never a good idea.



mnottertail -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 11:16:45 AM)

it wasnt the press, it was nutsucker slobberblogs making it up as usual.

Breitbart, Zerohedge, all the heavy nutsucker slobberblogs.



Lucylastic -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 11:35:13 AM)

I just watched this interesting clip from Rachel Maddow, discussing the issues between what the WH and Military are saying about the ships.
Im not claiming it as unbiased or factual, but wondering if anyone has any input or opposite views/information to share , I havent got the time to search myself right now...any body offering alternative POV to the clip:) thanks in advance


http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-military-confusion-risks-sending-dangerous-mixed-message-924168259932



Aylee -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 12:14:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

With the speed that the Vinson et al are capable of; IF the order was issued on the 8th, she would have passed through the Sunda Strait on about the 11th I would guess. At 16 knots, some of the old tubs I sailed on, could make it from Brisbane to Singapore in a week or maybe a little less, so she should have been a LOT further north and east by the 15th.



"Orders" are not the same thing as "action." In fact, an order might say on "such and such a date" go "here or there" from "where you are."



mnottertail -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 1:43:23 PM)

North Korea, you fuck with us and we are sending an Armada to Australia. ~Il Douchovitch
Saudi Arabia has attacked the US and brought down the World Trade Center, we will invade and murder in Iraq. ~W



igor2003 -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 1:58:23 PM)

--FR--

I think we all know and understand that the entire, apparent Kerfuffle was really a very carefully designed and planned strategy by Mr. Trump to make our possible enemies believe that he is totally incompetent, so that when Mr. Trump sees that the time is right he can sneak up on them and grab them by the pussy.



Kirata -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 3:37:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Made2Obey

I find it interesting that the press was reporting how the Vinson battle group was being shadowed by Russian and Chinese spy ships as it approached NK, then suddenly they are reporting it 3500 miles away. Makes one wonder about the truth behind the Philadelphia Experiment. 😊

[sm=applause.gif]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Made2Obey

BTW - for those asking a task force usually moves at around 12 kts so as to allow the fleet oilers (fuel ships) to keep up. The Vinson itself is nuclear, but most of the group will be fueled by bunker oil. Outrunning your fuel supply on the way into a possible conflict situation is never a good idea.

Thanks, that clears up a few things.

K.



thompsonx -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 6:05:59 PM)


ORIGINAL: Kirata
ORIGINAL: Made2Obey



BTW - for those asking a task force usually moves at around 12 kts so as to allow the fleet oilers (fuel ships) to keep up. The Vinson itself is nuclear, but most of the group will be fueled by bunker oil. Outrunning your fuel supply on the way into a possible conflict situation is never a good idea.

Thanks, that clears up a few things.

K.

No it does not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-class_fast_combat_support_ship



InfoMan -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 6:44:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

No it does not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-class_fast_combat_support_ship



Yes it does.
cruising/standard/full speed is ~50% of it's maximum power output, or 50-60% of it's top speed.

pushing 100% power output on your engines is called 'Flank Speed' and is often reserved for emergency or combat situations, as it is horribly fuel inefficient and puts a lot of undue stress on the engines, increasing the likelihood of break down (which is probably the last thing you want when adrift at sea.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flank_speed



Kirata -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 7:00:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Kirata
ORIGINAL: Made2Obey



BTW - for those asking a task force usually moves at around 12 kts so as to allow the fleet oilers (fuel ships) to keep up. The Vinson itself is nuclear, but most of the group will be fueled by bunker oil. Outrunning your fuel supply on the way into a possible conflict situation is never a good idea.

Thanks, that clears up a few things.

K.

No it does not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-class_fast_combat_support_ship


There were only four of them, the latest delivered in 1998. Two are already inactive (see here and here) and the other two are not currently inventoried as active Fleet Replenishment Oilers (see here). However, data on the currently active oilers report a speed of 20 knots (see here) not 12, though it isn't clear whether that is empty or topped up.

K.



thompsonx -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 7:14:54 PM)


ORIGINAL: InfoMan
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

No it does not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-class_fast_combat_support_ship



Yes it does.
cruising/standard/full speed is ~50% of it's maximum power output, or 50-60% of it's top speed.

Your link does not say that. It does however say:

Other speeds include one-third, two-thirds, standard, and full. One-third and two-thirds are the respective
fractions of standard speed. Full is greater than standard, but not as great as flank.

My link says:

quote:

These are the only US Navy resupply ships able to keep up with the strike groups,


This link shows the oilers that the supply class oilers replaced. Note the speeds on the replaced ships ranges from 10 to 18 kts.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_oiler


pushing 100% power output on your engines is called 'Flank Speed' and is often reserved for emergency or combat situations, as it is horribly fuel inefficient and puts a lot of undue stress on the engines, increasing the likelihood of break down (which is probably the last thing you want when adrift at sea.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flank_speed

The speeds indicated then are clearly not flank speed.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.



thompsonx -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 7:32:13 PM)

ORIGINAL: Kirata
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: Made2Obey



BTW - for those asking a task force usually moves at around 12 kts so as to allow the fleet oilers (fuel ships) to keep up. The Vinson itself is nuclear, but most of the group will be fueled by bunker oil. Outrunning your fuel supply on the way into a possible conflict situation is never a good idea.

Thanks, that clears up a few things.

K.

No it does not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-class_fast_combat_support_ship


There were only four of them, the latest delivered in 1998. Two are already inactive
(see here
and here) and
the other two are not currently inventoried as active Fleet Replenishment
Oilers (see here).
However, data on the currently active oilers report a speed of 20 knots
(see here) not 12, though it isn't clear
whether that is empty or topped up.

K.
Ranier and bridge have been decommissioned as the link shows but artic and supply are still active.
The link I posted shows 25 kts not 12. Whether it be 20 or 25 it is still quite a bit faster than 12.



MrRodgers -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 7:52:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Prudent ? So thump the table and rattle your sabre. That's the prudent thing to do.

What speed would YOU say she would make once the order was given for her to head to Korean waters; remembering that her cruising speed is about 30+ knots and she only has about 3500 miles to go ?

Well when we 'cruised' from Puerto Rico to the Med. it took us (we took) 13 days. So it was slow and easy. No hurry. We went from port and starboard to 3 section duty and I was even more tired.

Oh and same sort of ship (DLG) but with the Kennedy group. In fact, we 'were' the 'sacrificial' carrier.

My bad, not the same sort but an escort.



MrRodgers -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 8:00:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Where's Steven Seagal when he's needed?
[img]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/kancolle/images/2/26/File_204837_7_Under_Siege_Steven_Seagal.jpg[/img]

Shhh...he's undercover in N. Korea to...save the day.



MrRodgers -> RE: The great military genius (4/19/2017 8:03:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Made2Obey

I find it interesting that the press was reporting how the Vinson battle group was being shadowed by Russian and Chinese spy ships as it approached NK, then suddenly they are reporting it 3500 miles away. Makes one wonder about the truth behind the Philadelphia Experiment. 😊

BTW - for those asking a task force usually moves at around 12 kts so as to allow the fleet oilers (fuel ships) to keep up. The Vinson itself is nuclear, but most of the group will be fueled by bunker oil. Outrunning your fuel supply on the way into a possible conflict situation is never a good idea.

I've heard that. Except of course, the carrier can't outrun [its] fuel supply. In fact in my day, the carrier served as fueler.



InfoMan -> RE: The great military genius (4/20/2017 10:14:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Your link does not say that. It does however say:

My link says:

This link shows the oilers that the supply class oilers replaced. Note the speeds on the replaced ships ranges from 10 to 18 kts.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_oiler

The speeds indicated then are clearly not flank speed.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.


Most combat groups don't travel with the logistics ships - they meet up with them at predefined locations to refuel/resupply out at sea. Yes there are such things as 'Combat Logistics Ships' which can travel at the cruising speed of combat ships, allowing them to keep pace, and extend their effective range - however not every combat group has one of these ships assigned to them.

Furthermore - the 'Speed' of the ship is relative because so many factors are at play with these ships. In effect the different 'speeds' used by ships are not the speed of the ship going forward, but rather the amount of power the engines are outputting. Full Ahead in choppy sea with strong headwinds might only get you 10 knots, while when doing the same 'speed' while going with the current in calm waters can see you going in excess of 20 knots.

same 'speed'; different velocities.

So the average cruising speed of a fleet or combat group is usually ~12-17 knots depending on weather and current... or basically ~50% of the manufacturer's 'Maximum Speed'. Sitting here trying to state that a wikipedia page has a different number, or that the math doesn't pan out when taking into account ships that are not apart of the fleet proves nothing really.



Real0ne -> RE: The great military genius (4/20/2017 12:50:15 PM)

Not really.

You are confusing 'actual' speed and or velocity with 'apparent' speed and or velocity.

Both speed and velocity are condition dependent.

So you appear to be correct in the resultant, (that actual time from a to b varies on conditions), however your explanation using speed and velocity is not correct.



mnottertail -> RE: The great military genius (4/20/2017 1:03:05 PM)

speed is a distance over time calculation, velocity is direction.




InfoMan -> RE: The great military genius (4/20/2017 1:20:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Not really.

You are confusing 'actual' speed and or velocity with 'apparent' speed and or velocity.

Both speed and velocity are condition dependent.

So you appear to be correct in the resultant, (that actual time from a to b varies on conditions), however your explanation using speed and velocity is not correct.


No, i am not.

I am saying the word 'speed' commonly associated with naval vessels, such as 'Full Speed' and 'Flank Speed' is not an actual measured velocity of forward momentum. Instead, these 'speeds' are actually apart of the old engine order system which is telling you how fast to spin the screws. Or in the case of nuclear powered vessels, at what % you run your reactor at.



Musicmystery -> RE: The great military genius (4/20/2017 1:35:32 PM)

~FR~

http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/I_08.html



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