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BTW: I'm not anti-immigration, I'm anti-multiculturalism.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

From The Guardian: Polling suggests discontent with the scale of migration to the UK has been the biggest factor pushing Britons to vote out, with the contest turning into a referendum on whether people are happy to accept free movement in return for free trade.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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BTW: I'm not anti-immigration, I'm anti-multiculturalism.

How does Brexit improve things for you, then? It's already been accepted that the country's going to need equal numbers of immigrants to take up jobs here for a good while, yet. Except that as a result of Brexit, said immigrants will be coming from farther afield than Europe - the far east or the middle east. Do you think this will improve or excaserbate the problems of multiculturalism?

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

From The Guardian: Polling suggests discontent with the scale of migration to the UK has been the biggest factor pushing Britons to vote out, with the contest turning into a referendum on whether people are happy to accept free movement in return for free trade.

But it wasn't the only factor - and, to repeat, the Brexit only won by 4%. A sizeable number voted Brexit because of the issue of sovereignty.

Do you get this now, FD? You aren't in a position to claim that a majority support the ending of free movement. 'We' do not support that here, because it's likely that substantially less than 50% does. That 'we' is wishful thinking on your part.

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'we' as in the majority.

'we' as in the 52% who voted to leave.

'we' as in those polled that said that immigration was the deciding factor to vote for brexit.
Wasn't my poll either, so I'm going with the majority 'we'.

Geddit????

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I said that the poll showed the MAIN reason for voting brexit was immigration.
'main' only has to be 0.5% more than any other reason for it to be a main reason.

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Who cares.... we are leaving and that's all I care about.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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I said that the poll showed the MAIN reason for voting brexit was immigration.
'main' only has to be 0.5% more than any other reason for it to be a main reason.

Sweet Jesus, FD ... if that wasn't the main reason for more than 4% of Brexit-voters - you can't talk about 'We' as you did. That's it.

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Who cares.... we are leaving and that's all I care about.

... Despite the fact that it'll increase the numbers of immigrants from outside Europe. That will probably mean, for instance, more Muslims, rather than fewer. I don't recall your being greatly in favour of an increase in Muslim numbers, FD.

Ach - well, party on.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome

There certainly a debate to be had about the role and the European Court and who influences it, but I think we are a long way from that at the moment.

The whole point of brexit was to break away from the EU and all of its overruling influnces.
That would also include the European Courts.
The British courts will make future determinations, not those pontificating rissoles in Europe.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome
We have a broken democracy without an effective opposition, even one in the shape of a "coalition of chaos".

I quite agree.
I'm not a lover of everything that the conservatives do but there doesn't seem to be anyone even close to making any sort of headway against them.
Corbyn is a joke and labour are in a fragmented mess.
The lib-dems are nowhere and that crazy Tim Fallon isn't on the same planet as the rest of us.
UKIP are also in disarray and incoherent.
The pathetic greens and various independents are nothing more than a spit in the ocean.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome
You can't really blame May for wanting to take advantage of that, but you don't have to like it either. I'd just like to see some checks and balances as we slide towards Brexit. A mature democracy taking account of diverse views might be trusted to handle such a life-changing issue with sensitivity and skill. Unfortunately the fractured mess we currently have in most of our political parties does not inspire that sort of confidence.

Brexit is not a game and it's too big a deal to give any group of politicians, left or right, a blank cheque.

I completely disagree.
You young 'uns have not lived a life without the EU sniffing up your ass.
Us older ones know what it was like before the dreaded EU.
As a trading environment, it's great and works most of the time - it did for the first 2 decades.
The problem is, the plutocrats who brought in the Lisbon Treaty through the back door have smashed everything good that was the EU.
If we wanted a dick-tator, we could elect one; we don't want one pushing for a European Federal and fiscal United States of Europe that we have absolutely no control over.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome
The reason why May cannot show us her hand on what she wants to get from negotiations with the EU is less because it would weaken her position with the EU and more because it would involve opening herself up to criticism at home.

Criticism from the many who would not support her vision for Brexit, not because she holds a minority view (who knows what view she holds) but because anyone putting their head above the parapet is likely to have it shot off, whatever position they take.

This criticism would be bad enough but the opprobrium she really cannot handle is what would happen if she nailed her colours to the mast, went to Europe and did not deliver everything she was looking for. That is the real reason for the secrecy - you can't fail if you never said what is was you wanted in the first place.

Again, I completely disagree.

The common myth that the SNP and various MP's like to spout about a "soft" brexit is pure bullshit.
The EU Brexit committee and the European Council have categorically stated that we have absolutely no choice and we cannot cherry-pick.
The four corner-stones that make up the foundation of the EU is an all-or-nothing hobson's choice.
If we don't want free movement of people (and we don't) there's no way we can be in the EU single market - it's not an option open to us.
The same with MP's still wanting bits of the EU with the rest being 'outside' - it's not an option.

It's not really a case of May hiding stuff; her hands are effectively tied in a truss.
The only real thing we can argue the toss over is tarrif levels and possibly a link into the Customs Union.
Beyond that, we don't have much say or have any strings to pull.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome
We are having to put up with no information, no input, no debate and no democracy just so that Theresa May's political reputation can remain intact and she doesn't have to admit to the British people at a future date that she didn't entirely succeed. British public opinion is hugely unforgiving in this regard and has condemned previous leaders even when they have delivered most but not all that they promised. David Cameron is a case in point.

See above.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome
Of all the things that concern me about Brexit, the Prime Minister being able to hide from public criticism because she didn't get her way is the least of my worries.

We need someone who is willing to stand up, be counted and live with the personal and political consequences. Few are and you have to praise May for even stepping into the Prime Minister's position when so many ran for cover.

Unfortunately faced with what is a no-win situation for her, she now is not showing the further courage needed for the job. Protecting her own political back is not acting in anyone's best interest but her own.

That's probably the reason cockroach scooted off as fast as he could once he realised he'd lost the referendum.

You're right there - it is a no-win situation.
And the fact that many criticise her for covering her back is deplorable.
As a remoaner, I give her credit for handling the backlash and for pushing as hard as she can to get Brexit done on whatever few crumbs she can wressle from EU pundits.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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I said that the poll showed the MAIN reason for voting brexit was immigration.
'main' only has to be 0.5% more than any other reason for it to be a main reason.

Sweet Jesus, FD ... if that wasn't the main reason for more than 4% of Brexit-voters - you can't talk about 'We' as you did. That's it.

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Who cares.... we are leaving and that's all I care about.

... Despite the fact that it'll increase the numbers of immigrants from outside Europe. That will probably mean, for instance, more Muslims, rather than fewer. I don't recall your being greatly in favour of an increase in Muslim numbers, FD.

Ach - well, party on.

Not 4% Peon.... 52% who voted to leave - that 4% edge was 1.7 million people.
I most certainly can talk about 'we' in that sense.
As the winners, with more than 50% of the vote, 'we' won the vote.

I'm not very favourable towards Muslims in general.
I think that's well known on here.
But at least with a proper immigration policy, they'll have to qualify to gain entry.
Those muslims from the EU won't be able to just walk into the UK without a proper check like they can at the moment under EU rules.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


...
I'm not very favourable towards Muslims in general.
I think that's well known on here.
But at least with a proper immigration policy, they'll have to qualify to gain entry.
Those muslims from the EU won't be able to just walk into the UK without a proper check like they can at the moment under EU rules.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

FR~

This isn't a thread about Muslims.
I answered Peon's question about immigration that also happens to include Muslims because he mentioned it.

@longway: No, it's not all about Muslims.
In fact, I made a specific point in saying that I'm against multi-culturism in general.

@blnymph: It doesn't matter to me where the Muslims originate; I don't like the ideology.
So to start nit-picking locations doesn't make any sense to me at all.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
@blnymph: It doesn't matter to me where the Muslims originate; I don't like the ideology.
So to start nit-picking locations doesn't make any sense to me at all.