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RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/28/2017 11:29:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Nobody was ever safe from anything, before the great Obama...

You felt less secure with the president who was in charge when Osama bin Laden was found and killed than you did under the one who ignored warnings that OBL was planning something big and who dismissed the idea of pursuing reprisals against al queda as pointless and insignificant next to using their 2001 attacks as an excuse to invade an oil rich state his party, family and vice president's corporate sponsors had been looking for an excuse to invade since the last gulf war, then?

...not to mention that the CIA knew Al Zarqawi was real trouble in 2003 before the invasion, highly recommended they take him out then and Bush & Co. saying no but...mention it anyway.

After the invasion...killed 1000's of Iraqis and many American with suicide bombers.

Helps to have CIC who acts on real intel but then just as plausible that the PLAN (Plan for a New American Century) neocons wanted the resulting Sunni vs Shia war.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to WhoreMods)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/28/2017 11:48:15 PM

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In the history of waterways, the US doesn't so well. Lincoln used to go way up river to escape the stench of the Potomac.

Then LBJ called it a disgrace and a new commission forced the Blue Plains water treatment plant to be built and it has needed more since.

Even the great Potomac still got only a D- from the Potomac Conservancy in 2007 and as of 2016 is still after all of these years...B- The Potomac is 600 kilometers long and supplies water to 6 million people.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 3:20:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I think we need a Biodome, just for Politicians, who have prove they can survive under the conditions their legislation inflicts on the country they are supposed to serve.

We need to ship environazis to their own biodome too, let them live in a world where there is no economy because everything is as overly regulated as they demand

Where there are no mined products, refined products or any products shipped using petroleum products in any way

No heat, no ac, no frills caveman style living

Between Biodome 1) with polluted air, water and food but a/c, carbon fueled heat and luxuries
and Biodome 2) with clean air, water and food but hard work and renewable energies

Which do you think can sustain life?

There's an old saying, you don't shit where you eat. Like it or not we are taking an ecological system beautifully designed to clean and filter our environment naturally and we are spreading like a virus through it until it can barely sustain us. It is counterintuitive to consciously continue on a path of destruction.

We are technically advanced enough to improve our lifestyles and our environment without continuing on a path of destruction or reverting back to the Stone Age.

This sounds serious. How sick are you, and exactly which rule is it that is making you die

_____________________________

Hunter is the smartest guy I know

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 3:58:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

how about instead of the usual hysterical "sky is falling" and overly-so-broad-that-its-rendered-meaningless-response to the trump administration you actually articulate the eaxct regulations that are being rolled back and then make a reasoned case for how each one is necessary??

you know, because government bureaucracies never just grow without being absolutely and wholly justified right?

maybe there is a way you can work the "republicans want to throw granny off the cliff" meme in there too??

And how can we repeal any of those laws, look how well they worked in Michigan.

Welll, there you go that was nutsuckers too, now thats how nutsuckers will have it for America.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 3:58:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I think we need a Biodome, just for Politicians, who have prove they can survive under the conditions their legislation inflicts on the country they are supposed to serve.

I agree. Then we can put all politicians in it, lock the door, and suck out the air...

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:04:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Well the EPA is about to dump the regulations that protect the drinking water of 117 million Americans.

I mean, no big deal, the Flint river was so polluted it was killing people, and so what is adding 117 million more?

EPA moves to ax Obama-era Clean Water Rule, which protects drinking water for one-third of Americans

Look, I dont give a fuck about how people feel about climate change, but considering some of President Trump's plans dealing with the EPA, do we really want to go back to this?

And considering it was the GOP that got those first anti pollution regulations passed, it really says a lot about how far the GOP has sunk.

Of course, since most of the people affected by the change would fall into the lower income brackets (those that can afford it will buy bottled water) it will solve some of the current GOP's problem, how to deal with the poor.

I once had a college graduate with a degree in "The environment" come and work for me as an intern. I asked that college grad how much Chemistry they had taken to get a degree in "the environment". The answer was "none. Physics...none. Math above algebra level...none. It was four years of environmental propaganda.

The goal of such degrees was then to get a job with the government and "regulate" all of us. They look forward to writing the regulations, for the good of all of us, that are thousands and thousands of pages long based on any small law passed by the elected officials. In California, I found myself, often, being regulated by nonsense EPA regulations, costing tens of thousands of dollars, because the EPA was having some problem in the Great Lakes area. In California, because we so zealously love those regulations, the cost of compliance adds about a quarter of a million dollars to the cost of a new house.

The EPA has been out of control for a long time. Most states now have their own departments that duplicate the EPA, or assume authority therefrom. Those, at least the ones I've spent years working with in California, are out of control as well. For years I've said that the elected officials that pass the laws should be required to read and approve the regulations that the unelected officials then tack onto the laws and use to regulate. In my mind this is a good thing.

This OP, is a classic example of those people with college degrees that are really just four years of propaganda with no real science knowledge. The sky is falling only to the extent that we've given power to regulators to act like unsupervised children in a candy store. It is certainly way past time they had adult supervision.

< Message edited by Nnanji -- 6/29/2017 6:09:02 AM >

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:07:37 AM

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First, I readily acknowledge that I don't know shit about the situation in California.

But I can tell you that EPA regulations made a HUGE positive impact on the Great Lakes.

I can see how those approaches might not translate to California well. And I'm in favor of hiring more scientists for the EPA.

You may have noticed that the government of late isn't all that interested in science.

(in reply to Nnanji)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:07:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

how about instead of the usual hysterical "sky is falling" and overly-so-broad-that-its-rendered-meaningless-response to the trump administration you actually articulate the eaxct regulations that are being rolled back and then make a reasoned case for how each one is necessary??

you know, because government bureaucracies never just grow without being absolutely and wholly justified right?

maybe there is a way you can work the "republicans want to throw granny off the cliff" meme in there too??

He did dogshit44, cant you read? About 1/3 of Americans get their drinking waters from streams that were not regulated before the rule (what is called non-navigable; speed, width, depth, rocks, trees and so on make them non-navigable), and the nutsuckers want to remove that rule, allowing you to dump all sorts of shit in that water.

You, obviously, know nothing about which you are speaking. But, hey, why does that surprise me?

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:13:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

First, I readily acknowledge that I don't know shit about the situation in California.

But I can tell you that EPA regulations made a HUGE positive impact on the Great Lakes.

I can see how those approaches might not translate to California well. And I'm in favor of hiring more scientists for the EPA.

You may have noticed that the government of late isn't all that interested in science.

I don't have a problem at all with having a clean environment, nor paying for it. I am aware that there are areas that haven't been as diligent as California. But, I am also aware that this sort of thing has become a power grab for people that really do worship the environment who then regulate just as zealously as if they were a priest in a church. I shouldn't have to be regulated by any religious zealot.

< Message edited by Nnanji -- 6/29/2017 6:16:18 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:19:44 AM

Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

First, I readily acknowledge that I don't know shit about the situation in California.

But I can tell you that EPA regulations made a HUGE positive impact on the Great Lakes.

I can see how those approaches might not translate to California well. And I'm in favor of hiring more scientists for the EPA.

You may have noticed that the government of late isn't all that interested in science.

I recall that in the '90's Newt Gingrich tried to pass a law that required science and cost to benefit for all EPA regulations. Clinton(the rapist) had a couple of school bus loads of children bussed to a sight in front of, what I assumed was, the Potomic River and gave a speech about how Newt wanted to poison all of the little children that could be seen behind him. Since then science has not been allowed a vote at the EPA regulation writing table.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:27:06 AM

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Joined: 11/4/2015
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He did.
And for good measure I chucked in a couple of examples too. Then I explained a little bit about the guy who is now in charge go the EPA.

Are you that broken?

There is something severely wrong with some of you Americans.

_____________________________

wE arE tHe voiCes,
We SAtuRaTe yOur aLPHA brain WAveS, ThIs is nOt A DrEAm The wiZaRd of Oz, shoES, CaLcuLUs, DECorAtiNG, FrIDGE SProcKeTs, be VeRy sCareDed – SLoBbers,We DeEManDErs Sloowee DAnCiNG, SmOOches – whisper whisper & CaAkEE

(in reply to Nnanji)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:28:41 AM

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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Sure, we trust the word of an Internet troll

No need to provide links, ever

Hey you fucking brainless goddamn conservative moron. If you were not so busy swallowing and puking up right wing rhetoric, you might actually prove that you are an actual living human being capable of individual self initializing thought, and pass the Turing test.

You know, the test that proves whether or not something is intelligent?

But here

Now, by all means, go read it, declare it fake news or liberal panic, but I bet you $1000 you would not go to the Pigeon river and take a glass of water straight from the source and drink it.

No, you republican shit for brains fuck wads wont do that to prove anything. You deny facts publicly but privately you will not do a damn thing to prove that you are right.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to BoscoX)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:33:49 AM

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Time and again we see that in any given "debate" practically all leftists have are personal attacks, or other debate fallacies.

According to your cite, which has nothing to do with your wild-eyed claims about what the president is doing... They are suing for remedy, which means that contrary to your mindless spew there are laws and regulations in place to address the issues claimed in the article.

_____________________________

Hunter is the smartest guy I know

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:34:06 AM

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

First, I readily acknowledge that I don't know shit about the situation in California.

But I can tell you that EPA regulations made a HUGE positive impact on the Great Lakes.

I can see how those approaches might not translate to California well. And I'm in favor of hiring more scientists for the EPA.

You may have noticed that the government of late isn't all that interested in science.

I recall that in the '90's Newt Gingrich tried to pass a law that required science and cost to benefit for all EPA regulations. Clinton(the rapist) had a couple of school bus loads of children bussed to a sight in front of, what I assumed was, the Potomic River and gave a speech about how Newt wanted to poison all of the little children that could be seen behind him. Since then science has not been allowed a vote at the EPA regulation writing table.

If you want to portray Gingrich as a saint, you've got a Sisyphean hill to climb.

(in reply to Nnanji)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:43:05 AM

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Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline

I had a look at your pigeon river last night at 3am I couldn't sleep. Incidentally where I stay we had a mill but that shut down about 15 years ago.

Pics

https://scottishwildlifetrust.org.uk/reserve/carron-glen/

_____________________________

wE arE tHe voiCes,
We SAtuRaTe yOur aLPHA brain WAveS, ThIs is nOt A DrEAm The wiZaRd of Oz, shoES, CaLcuLUs, DECorAtiNG, FrIDGE SProcKeTs, be VeRy sCareDed – SLoBbers,We DeEManDErs Sloowee DAnCiNG, SmOOches – whisper whisper & CaAkEE

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:50:41 AM

Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Sure, we trust the word of an Internet troll

No need to provide links, ever

Hey you fucking brainless goddamn conservative moron. If you were not so busy swallowing and puking up right wing rhetoric, you might actually prove that you are an actual living human being capable of individual self initializing thought, and pass the Turing test.

You know, the test that proves whether or not something is intelligent?

But here

Now, by all means, go read it, declare it fake news or liberal panic, but I bet you $1000 you would not go to the Pigeon river and take a glass of water straight from the source and drink it.

No, you republican shit for brains fuck wads wont do that to prove anything. You deny facts publicly but privately you will not do a damn thing to prove that you are right.

http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2017/06/29/deconstructing_the_administrative_state_110284.html

Well, with raccoons, skunks, squirrels, mice, deer, bear, etc. all using the Pigeon river water system as a bathroom you'd be bat shit crazy to intentionally drink the water. But you don't know that. You just think of man as the evil being. There are enough real environmental problems we can throw money at without making the issue into a church and a religion.

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:51:50 AM

WinsomeDefiance

Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I think we need a Biodome, just for Politicians, who have prove they can survive under the conditions their legislation inflicts on the country they are supposed to serve.

We need to ship environazis to their own biodome too, let them live in a world where there is no economy because everything is as overly regulated as they demand

Where there are no mined products, refined products or any products shipped using petroleum products in any way

No heat, no ac, no frills caveman style living

Between Biodome 1) with polluted air, water and food but a/c, carbon fueled heat and luxuries
and Biodome 2) with clean air, water and food but hard work and renewable energies

Which do you think can sustain life?

There's an old saying, you don't shit where you eat. Like it or not we are taking an ecological system beautifully designed to clean and filter our environment naturally and we are spreading like a virus through it until it can barely sustain us. It is counterintuitive to consciously continue on a path of destruction.

We are technically advanced enough to improve our lifestyles and our environment without continuing on a path of destruction or reverting back to the Stone Age.

This sounds serious. How sick are you, and exactly which rule is it that is making you die

I always appreciate witty sarcasm. It's an art form here in Michigan.

I'm not serious about the Biodome, but I don't understand anyone who isn't honestly concerned about turning our environment into a toxic mess.

We have past precedents that show us Companies can't be trusted to self-regulate.

I know OSHA can get ridiculous with over regulating. I worked in an oil refinery for 15 years.

Even still, come on. We all live on the same planet. It sustains us. If you get out at all, hunt, fish, bike, kayak, ski, bike...
The beauty of our planet is awe inspiring and that beauty sustains us too. It isn't just dirt and water and air. It is a living entity that requires a healthy environment, the same as us, to survive.

How does this not seem logical?

(in reply to BoscoX)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:52:06 AM

Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

First, I readily acknowledge that I don't know shit about the situation in California.

But I can tell you that EPA regulations made a HUGE positive impact on the Great Lakes.

I can see how those approaches might not translate to California well. And I'm in favor of hiring more scientists for the EPA.

You may have noticed that the government of late isn't all that interested in science.

I recall that in the '90's Newt Gingrich tried to pass a law that required science and cost to benefit for all EPA regulations. Clinton(the rapist) had a couple of school bus loads of children bussed to a sight in front of, what I assumed was, the Potomic River and gave a speech about how Newt wanted to poison all of the little children that could be seen behind him. Since then science has not been allowed a vote at the EPA regulation writing table.

If you want to portray Gingrich as a saint, you've got a Sisyphean hill to climb.

It's just a handy memory and it just happened to be Newt and the rapist. The point stands.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 6:58:55 AM

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Actually, it's questionable whether his proposals were actually a concern for science:

After their sweep to power in the 1994 midterm elections, Republican lawmakers rushed to implement House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s promised program of reform, including a bill to mandate “independent and external peer reviews” and cost-benefit analyses for regulations related to health, safety, or the environment. “On their face, these are worthy ideas,” the New York Times editorial board declared in February 1995. “But Mr. Gingrich’s approach … converts these useful concepts into a recipe for paralysis.” The Times editorial noted that, under the proposed law, agencies would’ve had to “endure a cumbersome 23-step review consisting of layers of ‘expert’ panels, some of which would include individuals or companies with a stake in the outcome.” In other words, stringent peer review would lead to fewer science-based interventions, not more of them.

The same rhetoric and strategy—to peer-review away the case for regulatory action— could in theory be applied across the board. Senate Republicans who worried the Endangered Species Act had led to “overzealous regulations based on emotion, not science,” for example, proposed a bill requiring rigorous peer review before any animal could be protected. But in the face of steady opposition from the Clinton White House, these efforts to spread peer review mostly came to nothing. While the Gingrich bill had support from several mainstream academic organizations, it also failed to pass.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2017/05/hate_trump_s_science_policies_don_t_call_for_more_peer_review.html

Deflect, delay and derail is in the standard playbook.

(in reply to Nnanji)

RE: Time to roll back the clock - 6/29/2017 7:04:06 AM

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Sure, we trust the word of an Internet troll

No need to provide links, ever

Hey you fucking brainless goddamn conservative moron. If you were not so busy swallowing and puking up right wing rhetoric, you might actually prove that you are an actual living human being capable of individual self initializing thought, and pass the Turing test.

You know, the test that proves whether or not something is intelligent?

But here

Now, by all means, go read it, declare it fake news or liberal panic, but I bet you $1000 you would not go to the Pigeon river and take a glass of water straight from the source and drink it.

No, you republican shit for brains fuck wads wont do that to prove anything. You deny facts publicly but privately you will not do a damn thing to prove that you are right.

http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2017/06/29/deconstructing_the_administrative_state_110284.html

Well, with raccoons, skunks, squirrels, mice, deer, bear, etc. all using the Pigeon river water system as a bathroom you'd be bat shit crazy to intentionally drink the water. But you don't know that. You just think of man as the evil being. There are enough real environmental problems we can throw money at without making the issue into a church and a religion.

Just where do you think the vast majority of drinking water in the US comes from anyway?
Rivers.
Animal and human waste is easily treated. Removing a lot of the chemicals that are dumped into the water by various industries, not so much.

We will have 2 choices. Either make those who mess it up, clean it up (Yaknow, good old Consevative responsibility) or the public can pay for additional treatment by paying more taxes. (the Liberal solution)

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Nnanji)

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