RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle


Yes
  57% (22)
No
  2% (1)
None of the above
  0% (0)
CNC is my kink
  10% (4)
Non consent is abuse
  18% (7)
Non consent is sexy.
  2% (1)
It Should Be
  7% (3)


Total Votes : 38
(last vote on : 10/17/2017 6:18:54 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


Musicmystery -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 11:19:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Another question could be:

Is it OKAY/Morally acceptable for consent to be withdrawn, if the parties involved AGREE to withdraw consent and move forward with a non-consensual relationship.
As in a - Real slavery/non consensual relationship
[;)]

There are those that state they desire a non-consensual relationship, I might consider getting that arrangement in writing, for what it is worth.

Sorry for the multiple posts here, but it's a darn interesting question.

Heck, there's a lot of people that joke about getting release forms signed before engaging in consensual stuff. They forget that's the exact kind of thing that could come back and bite them in the @ss. Might as well just get me to write a confession.

I don't have any problem with CNC type deals. No problem with blanket consent. (AKA, s-type gives full consent for anything that's going to happen one time and that's the end of it.) Even if it's a no questions asked kind of deal. As long as the participants are happy doing what they do, or even happy enough that they want to live that way, as a generalization, fine by me.

The problem that I tend to run into with a certain section of the CNC crowd is, even if it's a one time blanket consent, it should be just as simple to remove that consent. Anytime a person wants out (don't care if they are the D or the s) that's it. Game over. It's not 'consent once and that's written in stone'. If either/any party wants out, that should be the end.




In practice, whatever was said, that’s essentially what’s going to happen — someone leaving leaves, with or without consent.




Lucylastic -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 11:28:30 AM)

Its surprising how many women are killed trying to leave an abusive relationship....

Nearly Half of All Murdered Women Are Killed by Romantic Partners
A new CDC report suggests that domestic violence is a major cause of death for women.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/homicides-women/534306/
from a personal experience
I walked away from my ex(35 yrs ago) after he beat me for the first time...
He came looking for me, even escaped from jail to threaten me and my family, stalked me, harassed me, followed me. They didnt tell me for three days that he had escaped, and didnt tell me when he was re arrested.
I never went back, I walked away, I still "suffered" from his "control" problems.
This wasnt a BDSM relationship, just a regular nilla one




WhoreMods -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 11:32:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its surprising how many women are killed trying to leave an abusive relationship....

Nearly Half of All Murdered Women Are Killed by Romantic Partners
A new CDC report suggests that domestic violence is a major cause of death for women.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/homicides-women/534306/
from a personal experience
I walked away from my ex(35 yrs ago) after he beat me for the first time...
He came looking for me, even escaped from jail to threaten me and my family, stalked me, harassed me, followed me. They didnt tell me for three days that he had escaped, and didnt tell me when he was re arrested.
I never went back, I walked away, I still "suffered" from his "control" problems.
This wasnt a BDSM relationship, just a regular nilla one


You get some fuckwits who think carrying on like that proves just how toppy they are, rather than it making them look like an insecure wanker, sadly.




Musicmystery -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 12:38:39 PM)

If you're going to equate a bdsm relationship with an abusive one, we're done talking here.




Lucylastic -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 12:54:13 PM)

For the record, what part of it happened ONCE didnt you get ....it wasnt an ABUSIVE relationship. Until he put me in the hospital the first and only time.
I didnt equate BDSM relationships with abusive relationships, except it can very easily turn abusive once consent is removed or withdrawn
. so ...yeah, we are done.







LadyPact -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 1:09:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
If you're going to equate a bdsm relationship with an abusive one, we're done talking here.

I don't know if that was the intention or implication. I took it to mean how bad some people get when the relationship and/or dynamic is over and some of the cray-cray stuff folks do. You know how some people pull their worst stunts after something is over. ('Cause yeah, that's exactly the kind of person somebody is going to go back to. [8|]) Just like divorce often brings out the worst in people.

I was going to say this in reply to WM because it really shouldn't be looked at like tops are always the perpetrators or that the perpetrators are always men. Some of the stuff I've seen female submissives do to 'get back' at their former Dominants would make people shake their heads in disbelief. It's a tough position for the male D-types to be in because they get laughed at, the cops don't take it seriously, and other problems associated with it.





Lucylastic -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 1:12:41 PM)

No it wasnt the intention OR the implication,
ANd I utterly agree its not just tops, I have no delusion that bottoms can be just as "vindictive"




JVoV -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 1:30:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

THis is not a BDSM matter or a consent matter — it’s an abuse of power and position.

Even with consent (and it wasn’t).


I disagree. We're only hearing from the women that didn't consent. That doesn't mean that everyone Weinstein propositioned refused his advances.

ETA: And I realize I may have no idea what you were referring to. Still leaving this here.




Marini -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 1:54:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

For the record, what part of it happened ONCE didnt you get ....it wasnt an ABUSIVE relationship. Until he put me in the hospital the first and only time.
I didnt equate BDSM relationships with abusive relationships, except it can very easily turn abusive once consent is removed or withdrawn
. so ...yeah, we are done.




I am so sorry to read this Lucy.

All relationships can "turn", when someone get's angry!

It is "rarely" mentioned, the possible danger many Dominant women could be put into.
At the end of the day, men are still MEN, even if they are/or "claim" to be submissive or slaves.
If/when a submissive male or even female gets mad/angry/vindictive with a Dominant woman, and takes action or becomes physical or abusive --
many "Dominant women" would be up shits creek, unless they walk around with a loaded weapon all the time.


Lifestyle or no lifestyle, people are people, and most men are stronger than most women.
We always read about the need for "submissive's" to make sure the Dominant knows what they are doing.

When have you ever read, how careful Dominant's need to be, about dealing with crazy submissive's?
Not to mention, many people attracted to this "lifestyle" don't seem to be playing with a full deck.
I love to read profiles on here, and it is clear that many {men and women}, drawn to this "lifestyle" might not have all their marbles.

All women and men, need to be careful about who they become involved with and who they decide to bring into their lives.
At the end of the day, people are people.
I always felt you need to be even more diligent when you have a partner in this lifestyle, not less diligent.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 4:37:34 PM)

quote:

I should have stated a relationship, in which the submissive WANTS a non-consensual relationship.
The submissive has decided/or desires to be in a non-consensual relationship.

In which case, they are consenting to that relationship.

*smh*




LadyPact -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/14/2017 8:23:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

For the record, what part of it happened ONCE didnt you get ....it wasnt an ABUSIVE relationship. Until he put me in the hospital the first and only time.
I didnt equate BDSM relationships with abusive relationships, except it can very easily turn abusive once consent is removed or withdrawn
. so ...yeah, we are done.




I am so sorry to read this Lucy.

All relationships can "turn", when someone get's angry!

It is "rarely" mentioned, the possible danger many Dominant women could be put into.
At the end of the day, men are still MEN, even if they are/or "claim" to be submissive or slaves.
If/when a submissive male or even female gets mad/angry/vindictive with a Dominant woman, and takes action or becomes physical or abusive --
many "Dominant women" would be up shits creek, unless they walk around with a loaded weapon all the time.


Lifestyle or no lifestyle, people are people, and most men are stronger than most women.
We always read about the need for "submissive's" to make sure the Dominant knows what they are doing.

When have you ever read, how careful Dominant's need to be, about dealing with crazy submissive's?
Not to mention, many people attracted to this "lifestyle" don't seem to be playing with a full deck.
I love to read profiles on here, and it is clear that many {men and women}, drawn to this "lifestyle" might not have all their marbles.

All women and men, need to be careful about who they become involved with and who they decide to bring into their lives.
At the end of the day, people are people.
I always felt you need to be even more diligent when you have a partner in this lifestyle, not less diligent.


It takes serious balls for a person to put that kind of thing on a forum. I'm proud of Lucy for doing it because any person who feels that it's beneficial to put their personal experience on a thread pretty much knows the potential of what can happen. It's sh^tty but it's almost expected.

One of the reasons it's 'rarely' mentioned has something to do about such threads being pulled. For the most part, I don't know any more or less about who reports what around here, but sometimes, information happens. In the last few years, none of the stalking threads (where stalking was the actual topic) have survived on the General board past a certain point. That's where you'll see Dominant women talk about it, but you have to catch them quick before they go *poof*.

I can't tell you how many times I've said that I wished Dominant men would do the same. They have several valid combinations of reasons why they won't and I have trouble finding counter arguments for their hesitancy. Yep, even I'll cop to 'female privilege' in this area. (About four male posters just had a joygasm for me to even say that.) It's harder for men because people shame them about this area.

Even if I had to keep my personal experience out of it, I would LOVE to see a thread on exactly the points you touched on as it relates to concerns for tops/Dominants. The risks we face, which can be completely different than the risks that s-types face. Not that I'm down-playing the risks that other kink orientations have at ALL. Just that it's not all one and none of the other.





ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/15/2017 8:58:16 AM)

quote:

Even if I had to keep my personal experience out of it, I would LOVE to see a thread on exactly the points you touched on as it relates to concerns for tops/Dominants.

So start one.




WhoreMods -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/15/2017 9:05:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

I should have stated a relationship, in which the submissive WANTS a non-consensual relationship.
The submissive has decided/or desires to be in a non-consensual relationship.

In which case, they are consenting to that relationship.

*smh*

It's a very simple point, even if somebody's too weal and twue to accept it.




Drakvampire -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/15/2017 9:40:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

For the record, what part of it happened ONCE didnt you get ....it wasnt an ABUSIVE relationship. Until he put me in the hospital the first and only time.
I didnt equate BDSM relationships with abusive relationships, except it can very easily turn abusive once consent is removed or withdrawn
. so ...yeah, we are done.



I hate bad stereotypes, everywhere. And yet that ilk universally hates me for speaking out against the Beelzebub fuckers.

I thank you for sharing that story, lucy…I have shared most of mine here.
I firmly believe you are one of the more lucky ones at “once.”

Some people equate abusive relationships to terminology such as BDSM and that is absolutely incorrect.

Abusers are skilled at blaming their victims,…probably why I despise abusers, liars etc. To me I do not see a difference.

Sometimes they can subtly, imperceptibly erode the time away from the other over immense time periods and they are not always of the physical aspect

Sometimes the abused only seek the abusers.
A complicated thread I guess

Slipper note: I chose yes because I believe Consent is part of all life…as I am sure you 20 others chose it and the 7 others (28 of us)

CNC?





FieryOpal -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/15/2017 4:41:29 PM)

~ FR ~
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakvampire

Slipper note: I chose yes because I believe Consent is part of all life…

CNC?

Consensual Non-Consent

I did also, but I wanted to select "Non consent is abuse" as well.




Greta75 -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/15/2017 8:18:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I should have stated a relationship, in which the submissive WANTS a non-consensual relationship.
The submissive has decided/or desires to be in a non-consensual relationship.

I can't wrap my head around a Dominant attempting to force non-consent, that is a whole different situation.

When a submissive ask for a "non consensual" relationship, she is in fact still giving him permission to play "non-consensual" dynamic with her.

In another words, there are no REAL non-consensual relationships in this world that ISN'T A CRIME, unless you live in a Muslim country where wife beating at husband's prerogative is permitted as they live dictated by the Quran and Sharia law. Not by standard laws of a modern country.

I really object to anybody trying to compare BDSM to the Quranic laws of permitting men to beat their wives AGAINST Their will. And claiming that it is EXACTLY the same thing. Pointing to MM of course.

I know this is very hard to understand for BDSM people like MM who likes to believe maybe he is genuinely in a REAL non-consensual relationship, as Gorean culture promotes that type of relationships.

But since he lives in the US. His relationship can never be true non-consensual, as it's not legal. And he will be treated as a criminal IF he truly pursues REAL non-consensual relationships.

Now I am worried he is a sex predator. And I hope the women he keeps under "non-consensual" conditions are actually consensual and NOT non-consensual. That they have given their permission to him to treat them like that. It was not coerced, intimidated or forced upon them.

To me, what makes BDSM different from a real crime is the CONSENSUAL PART. The line is that straight forward. The moment a woman feel violated, she can run to police about it and the dominant will get in trouble. As it's not legal. In another words, the responsibility of the top is very important to make sure she consents to everything he is doing to her to protect himself.

PS: I did not participate in the vote, because, I feel like we all might have very different ideas and interpretation of what each definition means. I mean, we got MM here who interprets BDSM the EXACT same thing as Muslim men beating their wives. On top of that, spoke on behalf of several Forumers and claim that, people here are doing the same shit to their women as Muslim men are. When it comes to beating them against their will. I am surprise nobody call him out on it. Except Bosco! At least Bosco is clear about how important CONSENT is.




Greta75 -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/15/2017 8:40:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery says

If you're going to equate a bdsm relationship with an abusive one, we're done talking here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
For the record, what part of it happened ONCE didnt you get ....it wasnt an ABUSIVE relationship. Until he put me in the hospital the first and only time.
I didnt equate BDSM relationships with abusive relationships, except it can very easily turn abusive once consent is removed or withdrawn
. so ...yeah, we are done.


I just want to say, MM is now a red flag to me. Even his comments towards Lucy.

I think he has no reality on what is legal and illegal in this universe. Get your head out of those Gorean books.
It's distorting your reality.

This is why no matter what, I strongly believe in safe words, and many men do not know their strength. They may feel it wasn't too much. But then a woman ends up in hospital because they failed to realise they are actually strong enough to cause serious hurt, and many men who wants a zero safe word dynamic, always think, they would know better than the woman, when it gets too aggressive and is actually hurting her. Like they are the medical experts who will decide when it's too much physical hurt.

I think for my personal experience with pain thresholds, there was times where I get so numb in sub space where I think even if a man broke my bones, I wouldn't feel it.

I been whipped till I bled and my skin broke while in sub space and I FELT zero pain. I couldn't feel any pain in that state.

And when you really think about it. It's seriously, I always insist on safe words as I want to take full responsibility to decide when it's too much for me. Because when I am not reacting in pain. The guy might think he can go further and further. And this may not be because he is abusive but because he has been with more extreme women who can take even more. So he thought I could.




Marini -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/15/2017 9:26:29 PM)

I was confusing "no limits" with non consent in my post.
You can not agree to be in a non consensual relationship- you can agree to be in a no limits relationship.
Even when you say, you have no limits--- you always have the right to say NO!





Lucylastic -> RE: Is consent a part of the BDSM lifestyle (10/16/2017 12:43:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Except Bosco! At least Bosco is clear about how important CONSENT is.

can you point out exactly where bosco was clear about how important consent is?
Please




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