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RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/15/2007 3:15:00 PM   
blackwinterbyrd


Posts: 112
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline 		I hated prozac.  I hated lexapro.  I found one or a combination that didn't make me feel like a numb zombie.  That being settled, I have little desire to get off my meds, except in moments of hubris.

(in reply to beltainefaerie)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/15/2007 6:08:36 PM   
bludemonn


Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline 		See the Herb Magic thread on 'off topic discussion' a great GREAT alternative to Prozac is St John's Wort (the Herb!). Still being used today in some modern medicines although watered down to f*ck. 

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A hopeless dreamer she said, eyes of cloud and feet of lead.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/15/2007 9:14:26 PM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

i recently made a post about bipolar disorder and the fact that people around me think i have it.

i was so saddened and disturbed by the fact that the most adament advice i got was "get on meds!"

i can understand why some people need meds, but it saddens me the amount of people who unnecessarily turn to them in place of nutrition supplements and exercise.


Well, I was diagnosed with type I bipolar disorder about 5 years ago, along with a host of other co-morbid conditions as well. It runs in my family- my father has it, as did his mother, as did many others. It also runs on my mother's side, though to a lesser degree- but I get other exciting things from them, haha.

I was on meds and in and out of psychiatric hospitalizations and treatment programs for a few years in there. Although I do not regret the choice to get help when I needed it, I do wish that a few things that happened in those years never did.

For example, the Effexor that made my skin peel off in sheets after a few months of taking it, which left me with scars on my legs so that I was afraid to ever show them again, because of the stares and questions (I scar dark red at first, and then it fades over time- fortunately, the only way you can really tell they are still they is if I don't shave my legs- since no hair grows in those spots- or if I get a tan!).

Or the Lexapro that spun me into a mania because I was mis-diagnosed early on, and they gave me that to treat a depressive spell- and I was hallucinating and convinced that I was hearing people talk to me, and distorted my vision so that it looked like stable objects were moving- I couldn't tell if I had really stopped my car or not when I was driving!

How about the Depakote, which they ramped up the dosages so high to "help me", that I almost died of liver failure, and was so sick I don't even remember the time in the hospital where I had to fight to stay alive- all because it didn't seem to be as effective as they wanted it to be. Or the Klonopin, or the Wellbutrin, or the Paxil, or the Lamictal, or the Risperdal or Zyprexa, all of which made me sick? What about the Abilify, which took three months to work it's way out of my system, and only effectively made me exhausted to the point where I was only functional for three hours a day, and even then, not able to think straight?

I had to drop out of school because of these drugs. I failed my classes, I lost jobs, I suffered from tremors that I still occasionally get to this day. But, I am fine now- and my doctors resoundingly agree. I didn't learn to cope, I started to heal.

I haven't taken any daily medications (with the exception of birth control) in about two years now.

How I get through things? I accept that I get highs and lows, and sometimes they can be extreme, if I am not careful. But I do the best I can to regulate my life in order to be functional and more than that, productive. I have to make sure I get enough sleep, and am consistent with my schedule. I need to eat healthfully. I need to exercise. I need to avoid caffiene in the afternoons and evenings. I can't push myself too hard, nor can I stay in bed all day, no matter how much I want to- I force myself up, even if just to take a walk or go for a drive.

I stopped taking my meds, and everyone flipped out at me. But, I was a slave to taking pills that made me worse, six times a day- I had no life, really. It was like dying, just slowed down and less dramatic somehow. I had two choices- to feel things very strongly, and learn to live with it, or to never feel anything again, and be numb and sick forever.

It didn't seem like there really was a choice- I need to feel, I need to be alive.

I think there are some cases where medication is necessary. I think my father needs it, since he just medicates himself with other substances anyway. I don't think everyone can do it this way- and I am very lucky to be able to. I am also lucky to have people in my life who let me know if I'm going to far, or if I need to get my shit together again. So far, they have not had to remind me. But, I think every other possibility needs to be exhausted before medication becomes the answer, because it's a huge risk.

I was going to be a doctor, until I looked at my life, and looked at the industry, and honestly knew that I could never gamble with the life of another as mine had been gambled with.

I apologize for the length, and the airing of laundry that is less-than-clean, and the ranting. But, it's my experience and my position, and I thought it might be a good one to contribute.

As always, hope this helps- and, please, feel free to send me a message if you want to know more about any of this.
behindmirrors.

(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/15/2007 9:31:55 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		People turn to medicines too much.

People also die and children suffer because they won't go to the doctor and get the medicines that needed to keep them alive. I had a friend who's father died because he wouldn't go get a damn shot of pencilin. His leg was infected and died while still attached to his body.

Neither is prefect and I'm always suspicious of people singing the praises of one over the other.

Doing too much of either one is stupid. Find your balence. Get your children vaccinated or home school them.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 2/15/2007 9:32:54 PM >

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/15/2007 11:07:51 PM   
CandleInTheWind


Posts: 347
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

My ex had a compromised immune system as did his father. When you went off to school unimmunized, the school system had to redo class rosters to prevent you being in the same classroom with someone who had a family member undergoing chemotherapy or treatment for autoimmune disorders. Because if you caught whooping cough, you could have given it to a classmate who would himself have been immune but could have passed it to the sick family member who might have died from it.


my point exactly. but i never suffered these ailments because i had more than adequate supplements to add to my already daily intake of vitamins and the like. in school we are taught the best form of management is prevention. sticking yourself full of the exact thing you are trying to prevent, does not sound appealing to me at all.

but thats just me and the way my mother raised me.



Mixi..

you were just fortunate enough not to have been exposed to someone that had any of the childhood diseases that could have killed you or at least could have severely imparied your health..
i am one of the few mothers in my neighborhood that post pone innoculations until the kids are 4-5 years old...In my research  and by my families experience  we have reactions to immunizations myself included...so i postponed them until the child was old enough to tell me what is going on....there is nothing worse than bringing in a happy 3 month old to a doctors visit only to have her scream for th enxt week....

i waited afte the first set of shots for the kids to be old enoguh to tell me about their leg hurting or complaints of headaches etc...

My only issue with the various immunizations are those such as the chicken pox one...is that they do not know how ling that the immunity lasts...I would prefer that the kids come down with it ad have the natural immunity...allof the others have been around at least 2-3 generations and have been proven their life time effectiveness... I believe that as much as we allhave a right to our own risk taking...we do not have the right to endanger thers... particularly in these days where cancer is running rqampant and HIV  there are those that CANNOT have the immunizations....once a chemo patient always concidered a high immunity person  such as HIV positive status...these individuals cannot have the immunizations be casu ethe shot will actually cause the disease and illness int hem....and so in my opinion  hose that are not imunized are lifethreatening to them....

imagine littel suzy who has been kicking  hodkins disease being int he same class as jonah  who has HIV  both in the same class as MIKEY  whose mom decided that she didnt agree with the imunization rules of the state...Mike comes down with rubella.. (german measels)  mikey is irratable and breaks out in spots ets....Jonah and Suzy end up Dead!  becasue their immune systems are not able to fight the viral load that is caused by the diease!

I was alwasy willing to take the personal responsibility...My kids did not attend preschool or any type of group session untill they were immunized as per the guidelenes of the federal govt.....so if you wish to not be imunized...or to not have your child immunized...then it is up to YOU to keep your child out of the genral population... 

but that is just MY personal opinion...and that by the way is oposed to the way my mother raised me...my moms attitude was to just have the kids immunized as per the federal guidelines!!!

red

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(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/15/2007 11:17:02 PM   
CandleInTheWind


Posts: 347
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous


i can understand why some people NEED meds, but it saddens me the amount of people who unnecessarily turn to them in place of nutrition supplements and exercise.


people are actually better treated via scientifically produced chemicals becasu the natural suppliments such as St johns wart has such a varying amount of active ingrediant...todays crop of st johns wart may not have as much active ingrediant as yesterday due to soil, sun and other nurtient varients...where as scientifically produced chemical have a predictable amount of active ingrdiaents.

In regard to your statedment about your attention span went down immediately after beign immunized...could that not have been do to the fact that you went from living with your mother who had one idea...and your dad who had another??  the fact that you were 12 at the time and were at the prime age for what i call the preteen nusance  you may very well have decided that you werent goign to like anything that was different  particularly becasue it was your dad and not your mom that made the decision....I do not mean to pry  but why the change in living situations??

red

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It is better to be hated for something that you are
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(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/15/2007 11:36:51 PM   
CandleInTheWind


Posts: 347
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous
did you know unless you ask otherwise, they are going to give you a vaccine with mercury in it? dont get me started on the prenatal meds.
i am a bit of a conspirator i guess you could say. aids from a monkey? try released by the US for obviously frightening reasons, but again, another conspiracy.
duck duck goose.

Mixi  honey  I think you need to do some new research...th evaccine that you speak of has been eliminated from use more than 10 years ago...and a far as prenatal med?? the only Meds that are used routinely in pregnant woman are prenal vitamins....

all other medications that are given are meds given on  a need based basis...such as  meds used to prevent preterm labor (MgSO4) and tributylene It is far more difficult to actually get a doctor to prescribe any medications while you are pregnant that anything else..  I am a bit more knowledgeable in this particular subject for several reasons...1 I am a mother of 6  aged 21-7  and 2 i am an RN specialized in the maternal child field.

_____________________________

It is better to be hated for something that you are
than it is to be loved for something you are not

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/16/2007 7:35:24 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		One of the cool things about our current system of mental helth services is that it's largely a voluntary system, particularly relative to a generation or two ago.   If you don't feel you have a disorder, you don't have a disorder and, so long as you are not a danger to yourself or others, you're not going to be bothered with.  You cannot be treated without your consent and you have every right to refuse pharmaceuticals.

Of course, this doesn't mean your going to make a lot of friends, or that its going to be easy for you to find people who support you in your desire to pursue alternative treatments nor does it mean that a medically trained psychiatrist is going to have a lot to offer you.

I agree that pharmaceuticals are over prescribed for lots of conditions and am very careful when making these decisions.  My one son has a seizure disorder, and we've tried medication and decided against their use.  My other one has adhd, and we use medication sparingly, and usually only on school days. 

My sister was on medication for years for depression, and decided to go off it.  She's been off 5 years and, though she's still depressive, she's functional and has a supportive partner who allows her the space she needs to maintain balance.  Personally, I'm thrilled with her decision and the way she's managed it, and gladly accept her ups and downs along with all her other quirks because they're part of who she is.  That she's very reflective, and doesn't deny that she has 'issues' is definitely a help.

When I first started seeing my therapist a couple years ago, the first thing we talked about was medication.  I was a mess, and having all kinds of funky symptoms.  She isn't able to prescribe but she works with someone who could, and we agreed that if she thought it was appropriate she would refer me.  It took me a good year or more to get my worst  symptoms under control, and it meant learning to live with them for the most part and simply accept them as part of who I am which wasn't easy, but I managed it and feel a lot more stable, quirks and all. 

I think if someone is truely committed to a non-pharmaceutical approach to these things, its possible to succeed but its not an easy route because it involves taking a lot of responsibility for ones own mental health and self acceptance.  But, each person has to make their own choice.  And, we have that choice.  (Thomas Szaz rocks!)




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(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/16/2007 8:29:00 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CandleInTheWind

I do not mean to pry but why the change in living situations??




my father insisted. my mother was about to leave her bf - and entered a shelter to do so. i may have actually been younger than 12, it was in 5th grade. i doubt my father would have described my state of affairs as a preteen nuisance. Ask him again in 8th grade though he may have a different story for you LOL

oh and about the mercury thing, yea thats the last time i repeat something w/o looking it up first.


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/19/2007 8:10:27 PM   
collaredlilone


Posts: 34
Joined: 12/6/2005
Status: offline 		girl is collared and owned by her Master and Mistress. girl is bipolar and borderline. and girl was on many meds at one time before collared. girl can say that she agrees. she may have to change some things within her life daily to keep her going but she does not need meds. girl has went without them for 4 years now. smiles big. although some may need them. girl just finds it is not her. and many can live off of meds but just have to be determined to do it. girl is not going to say its easy but girl knows herself its posible.
girl

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 10:35:50 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

i can understand why some people need meds, but it saddens me the amount of people who unnecessarily turn to them in place of nutrition supplements and exercise.



What amount would that be?  90% of all people who are diagnosed?  20%?  What about people who haven't gotten a diagnosis but are bat-shit crazy (come on, we all know a few)?  And the people who have been diagnosed but just don't agree (whether right or wrong)?  And the people who have a bad diagnosis? How about folks who have diagnosed themself?

Do you have statistics and sources for the 'amount of people who unnecessarily turn to' meds?  I'm curious to know where you get your information regarding the validity of other people's treatment regimens. 

What is an acceptable amount of 'alternative therapies' that should be tried before choosing to use meds?  Do you have a list of the accepted procedures one should try and for how long?  Who made the list and what are their qualifications?

I am disappointed by blanket statements made about my disorder by people who haven't walked my path.  My disappointment doesn't stop it from happening, though.


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“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 11:05:51 AM   
bludemonn


Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline 		To be honest forget stats, i agree with mixie on this, she has a right to her opinion and i personally know too many people who are hooked on meds for bi-polar and depression in the TRUST they have in the health system (UK) the trust that is built on trial and error, you dont have to be sherlock holmes to realise that a huge percentage of people are badly badly mis-diagnosed with things such as depression. Its the meds who slowly kill you from the inside, you can inhibit neuro-transmitters but you CANT change your thought patters with drugs FACT. One thing ive noticed with a few of my friends who are on meds with depression and bi-polar is that they are very 'proud' of the fact they are special and need meds! Maybe years ago they had no alternative mainstream for matters of behaviour but they do now and doctors have a responsibility NOT to prescibe meds where they are simply not needed, maybe this coincided in the UK when they closed down all the Psychiatric facilities, TRUST me those people NEEDED meds AND restraints for severe cases of depressive suicide and psychotic episodes (wonder how many of them were turned that way with meds). I do NOT recommend taking meds especially for a so-called 'disorder' that hasnt properly been looked at from all possible angles!   

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 12:03:05 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bludemonn

I do NOT recommend taking meds especially for a so-called 'disorder' that hasnt properly been looked at from all possible angles!  



Then what would you recommend?  Let us know what your recommended regimen should be, how you would deal with it if your regimen didn't work, and if that didn't work - ad nauseum.  Do let us know at what point someone else should decide it's ok to try meds.  Should it be before or after the suicide attempt?  Before or after losing your job, your family, your house and all your savings?  Before or after you accidentally harm or kill someone while you're sick?  Is there a standard for this, because those of us who are moronic enough to use medicine want to be learn't. 

I don't have any trouble with people finding their own balance, whatever that might be.  My problem is with other people declaring that their prefered way is better than another's, particularly if they only have their own experience from which to draw (which is to say - they haven't walked a mile in my shoes).  I don't buy it in my religion or kink, either.  

It's so easy to say 'this way is right, that way is wrong, anyone who makes a profit is evil, this is more spiritual than that, this is "real" and that is "fake".'  This 'too many people do this and that' is just condescending judgement created from blanket statements that are too general to be of any value beyond being incendiary.

Tell me, will you next be telling us what 'real' bdsm is or what constitutes 'true' submission?  I don't think it would be any less invasive or judgemental than telling us what sort of medical treatment we should undergo.


_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to bludemonn)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 12:12:06 PM   
bludemonn


Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline 		You seem to have a serious problem, not a disorder a problem! YOu asked me a question il tell you!

If someone comes to me and has a problem, they are angry or they feel really really low THEN i can help them and i HAVE, it works! and let me tell you something...going to a doctor and shoving anti-depressants down your gob does NOT work, ever heard of placebo's? There are quite alot of sugar pills out there just for people who like to play on the 'im special im depressive', you aint the only one who has tried to kill themselves 'tried' being the operative word, this is in MANY cases sign that the person needs attention as if they wanted to be dead they would be! Stop trying to avoid the issue of what we are discussing, i never said NO ONE should be on meds but trust me for someone like you id never prescribe meds atall, you seemingly dont needs them! you DO however need your adjust your attitude to accomodate other peoples views and opinions, such a shame you arent from London (or are you) as id be on a bus to you right now with your dose of 'meds' eminating from my mouth! You say want things drawn for you dont you? you disregard anyones opinions on YOUR own special 'disorder' well it aint YOURS and this thread is actually meant to be of use to you not to get you in a huff cos you feel no one has the right to express an opinion about there own welfare, your comments only show me you suffere from selfishness and NO you cant get a med for that sorry! 

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 12:19:27 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		I think part of the problem occuring right here is that many of these posts are being read/written not as opinion but more unfounded fact.
When too many blanket statements are used it becomes personal. Medication is prescribed for genuine problems and yes medication is also prescribed for an 'easy fix'.
However the alternatives are being presented not as a possibility but more of a demand that pills be dropped & that is a dangerous path.

Remember depression is caused by both situational and chemical problems. Some people can't tolerate meds & some cannot tolerate certain herbs.

Neither is better for all than the other.

It simply depends upon the person & their body.

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~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to bludemonn)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 12:21:27 PM   
bludemonn


Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline 		Understood CJ but what is factual among psychiatry? please tell me as all i ever hear from people on meds is that they arent helping, you should know by now that psychiatry and the use of meds is all trial and error, more error than not.  

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 12:25:24 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bludemonn

You seem to have a serious problem, not a disorder a problem! YOu asked me a question il tell you!

remainder of rant snipped...

Dude, you seriously need a handful of valium.

~stef

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(in reply to bludemonn)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 12:30:36 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		Ah exactly blu, this is not JUST about the practice of psychiatry but body chemisty as well.  A medical issue that is backed up by lab work.
My body does not produce all the right chemicals and produces too many of the wrong ones. That isn't something that 'pulling myself up' will fix. It isn't something that talking about will fix.

Situational and biological. They are different.

Nearly everything learned in any field is trial and error. With medicine it is especially difficult because of the immense amount of variables involved, no two bodies are the same.

That said I personally detest the pharm industry, they have huge political backing & we can't fight against much of it. I am aware of that.

But you simply can't discount the fact that some bodies actually need the chemical assistance. Not all but some.

Heh I'm too tired to locate each one, but there were a lot of declarative sentences strongly implying that no one should take medication. (However if you insist I will try and paste them all, pls don't insist!)That is what gets folks backs up.

Ye ole generalization effect.

Yikes I am typing slow today, sorry.

_____________________________

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~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to bludemonn)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 12:39:20 PM   
bludemonn


Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline 		Honestly CJ the thread was NOT supposed to mean 'dont take meds atall' i think those who see it that way should try to learn to read in an objective and not subjective manner, yes i fully understand that chemistry and biology and alot to do with the outcome of these meds and its also a stated fact that until Modern Psychology was accepted amongst the very biased Scientific world meds were turning people into vegetables, there are/were a hell of alot of sanitoriums/psychiatric units where people were admited for mild issues only to be institutionalised solely BECAUSE of medication becasuse we just didnt know how to deal with matters of the mind, now we can do so much more without them, many psychologists will never tell you to take meds whereas a doctor or a psychiatrist will prescribe, im just saying there IS an alternative, if you are having terrible side effects from certain meds then dont just pick another one, why not seek counselling to get to the root cause?

Also yes i understand the imbalances of chemicals in the brain, i have them all the time, so does my neighbour and so does almost every person i know, yes i do things that scare me, yes i have had some deeply black urges before and i know i am not balanced, not saying you arent a more extreme case but there is a root cause and taking a med cannot change how you think can it?      

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/20/2007 12:43:34 PM   
bludemonn


Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: bludemonn

You seem to have a serious problem, not a disorder a problem! YOu asked me a question il tell you!

remainder of rant snipped...

Dude, you seriously need a handful of valium.

~stef


hmmmmmmmmm yeah i think i must be bi-polar....

_____________________________

A hopeless dreamer she said, eyes of cloud and feet of lead.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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