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RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/21/2007 9:34:27 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Apparently there were a few of my own posts in this thread that you missed, specifically the ones in which I link to previous discussions on this topic and my own experiences.

You'll note, if you take the trouble to read the rest of the information, that I have never suggested that my own diagnosis or 'suffering' gives me any latitude, nor have I ever espoused special treatment for people with diagnosis.  You'll find quite the contrary to be born out, should you actually read those other threads.

Your first hand observation is diametrically opposed to my first hand observation.  I won't get in to how long either of us tried different things or how long either of us has had to see whether our preferred methods of treatment work in the long term other than to say that I've been living with my illness longer than you have been alive.  I've had a lot of time to try a lot of different things, some of which have been laid out in the above referenced links.  I'm sure you'll take that for what it's worth.

Are we talking about treating an illness or are we talking about spiritual centering?  Daily meditation, teas, positive thinking, creative visualization, TM (do you know what TM is or did that become passe before you were born???), yoga, reiki, rolfing, massage therapy, chakra balancing, polarity therapy, sweat lodges, fire walks, naturopathy, homeopathy, tai chi, connected breathing/ rebirthing, chiropractic, ad nauseam are all wonderful tools for centering and helping one feel clearer and more in control.  They can assist in managing blood pressure, tension, stress and a plethora of other things.  They can not cure physiological mental illness any more than they can cure diabetis.

I still want to know what is 'the amount of people who unnecessarily' turn to meds who should instead take nutritional supplements and exercise.  THAT is a blanket statement unless you can support it with data.






< Message edited by MizSuz -- 2/21/2007 9:36:04 AM >

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/21/2007 11:02:03 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

I still want to know what is 'the amount of people who unnecessarily' turn to meds who should instead take nutritional supplements and exercise. THAT is a blanket statement unless you can support it with data.




there are plenty of first hand examples in this thread itself


and a lot of the time spiritual centering IS treating an illness, sorry you cant agree. and yes i know TM it is very similar to the siddha style i was raised in. you feel meds are the only way to cure/balance/maintain yourself. i can respect that opinion.

i feel not everyone has to go down that path, if i may be so bold as to use myself as an example. i have been battling depression since i was 13 [and possibly what may now be retroactively diagnosed as bipolar]. i tried meds, yes, multiple kinds. i "stuck it out" as i felt them wear me down, my own fault for turning to them in the desperation i owned. now i turn to other things to maintain my sanity, as exercise, meditation, cognitive reconditioning and self awareness and control. if more people took the effort to try, and yes, not take what i will call the easy way, coz popping a pill is much easier than identifying what in you life is ruining it, and eradicating it and its effects. again this is not for everyone . my point is was just that more people should try things like that before turning to the 'scripts.

oh right, i forgot this is America. my b.


_____________________________


"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"


(in reply to MizSuz)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/21/2007 12:13:47 PM   
deadbluebird


Posts: 265
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		More and More i am seeing commercials telling the possibility for You to have a lawsuit based on something gone wrong with a prescription. Many of these prescriptions which are giving people tumors, pancreatitis, diabetes, stroke, tardive dyskinesia, ect and even causing death, are prescriptions meant to cure depression or other such mental illnesses. Often these very prescriptions are causing people to become suicidal, making their mental state even more unbearable to survive with. It is a fact that we understand very little about the brain. In our amount of knowledge of the brain, the aspect we least understand are the emotional, thought process aspects. One of the things that bothers me about the handing out of mental medications is the lack of tests ran to diagnose a person. There are often no medical tests done at all. Simply a person tells of their feelings, thoughts, desires and a doctor decides which disorder it seems they have. It is like going to the doctor and complaining of stomach pain and the doctor preceding to lay you on the table and cut out half of your stomach. Often what these medications do, is simply dull a person. It is almost as if we have a personality switch and these pills switch it off. I do not see how this benefits the person in any way. They may no longer feel sadness, anger, or despair, but now instead they feel nothing. It sadness me that our society would rather shove pills down ones throat to quiet them , than listen to the problems and try to solve them. Therapy has proven to make incredible differences in the lives of people who find a kind ear. In Toxic Psychiatry by Peter R. Briggin, M.D. he tells of his experience as a young harvard freshman volunteering at the local state mental hospital. After a struggle him and thirteen other students were given individual patients to work with one-on-one. These were patients said to be beyond help. " By the end of the year, eleven of our fourteen patients had been released from the hospital. Only three of those eleven would return in the follow-up, which lasted one to two years." These patients had been treated with pills, electric shock, and insulin shock, and were not in any way improving, it was not until they had a kind ear and human contact that they improved.The point of what i am trying to say is we should stop putting so much faith in psychiatry and instead reinvest effort and funds toward psychology. A pill is not the only way to help someones mental state, and often does not help but hinder, a listening ear and a shoulder to lean on will.

But as mixie said, this Is  America land of quick fixes and lack of personal responsibility.

(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/21/2007 12:34:10 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		This is a frustrating subject on a few levels & it is obviously personal for most of the posters here.

What upsets me is that by my using prescription drugs I am apparently being branded as lazy, uneducated & looking for an easy out.
The four quotes below were taken from the first page alone, fairly indicitive of how those with a mental illness are being seen.

i can understand why some people need meds, but it saddens me the amount of people who unnecessarily turn to them in place of nutrition supplements and exercise.
~
a lot of people who do not need to resort to meds do, out of ignorance, laziness, and predigests [sp?] to our mother earth and what she has always had to offer.
~
I just decided to deal with it myself after that.
and I agree with staying off medications unless life saving.
~
herbal remedies can be as effective, if not more so, than many toxic pharmeceutical offerings.
~
 
 

Most of these posts are not being put forward as someones perspective or opinion but as valid truth alone. That is enough to get anyones back up lol. Yes we all have the 'right' to our own opinions but remember to keep it at that level.

Some bodies are being inundated with drugs they don't need, everyone has agreed on that.
There are other ways of helping a body without chemicals and everyone has agreed on that as well.
Somehow the agreeing stops if someone says they need prescription help along with other techniques, that it is a personal failure to need medication.

That is not only untrue but it also encourages the stigma those dealing with mental illness already face.

A COMBINED approach is usually the more successful, not an 'either or'.

Eep I'm not done but I have to feed the critters lol. Oh well.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to deadbluebird)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/21/2007 1:11:28 PM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

This is a frustrating subject on a few levels & it is obviously personal for most of the posters here.

What upsets me is that by my using prescription drugs I am apparently being branded as lazy, uneducated & looking for an easy out.
The four quotes below were taken from the first page alone, fairly indicitive of how those with a mental illness are being seen.


i would not say his is true at all. this is not supposed to be targeted towards mental illness specifically [as i have a few of my own] but people with mental illness [here is my official blanket statement] yes will be more offended and take it more personally than the person on medication for tension headaches, because of the stigmas that are associated with depression, and being so desperate as to need medication [end stigma]

my opinions are directed towards all medications in general, hence my opinions of why there are so many people out there, that are yes lazy etc

quote:


that it is a personal failure to need medication.


never never never would i think this [if it was directed towards me] needing a medication of course IS ABSOLUTLELY NOT a personal failure.

i am not talking about the people who need these things to stabilize themselves, this is not directed towards them. this is directed towards the lazy average american out there, who yes, is on by average 4 medications due to a cyclic spiral of medicating side effects that stem from the original medication. this thread is for the people out there too lazy to do anything about their own well being.



i never said it was for everyone.

this thread is not about you. any of you.


< Message edited by mixielicous -- 2/21/2007 1:15:19 PM >

_____________________________


"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"


(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/21/2007 3:41:53 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

this is directed towards the lazy average american out there, who yes, is on by average 4 medications due to a cyclic spiral of medicating side effects that stem from the original medication. this thread is for the people out there too lazy to do anything about their own well being.



So people who are on multiple medications are too lazy?  You don't see where you keep falling on your sword here?  Your position is one of condescension, even if it's subconcious.  If you refuse to acknowledge that as your position then at least turn on the internal mirror you were preaching to me about a few posts ago enough to see that at least two people have taken the trouble to step up and tell you that condescension is what they are hearing from you.  I can't say that I can blame the plethora of other people on this board who have, on numerous previous occasions, stepped up to the plate on this particular debate to acknowledge their use of and experiences with medications and allopathic treatments.  They would get hammered with self rightousness while all the while being told that's simply not the case.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

i never said it was for everyone.

this thread is not about you. any of you.
So now the defining criteria is 'anyone who isn't also on collarme'?  I think we're better off with the woefully inadequate DSM.


_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/21/2007 4:18:25 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

I still want to know what is 'the amount of people who unnecessarily' turn to meds who should instead take nutritional supplements and exercise. THAT is a blanket statement unless you can support it with data.


there are plenty of first hand examples in this thread itself


Please point out to me the people on this thread who said they turned to meds unnecessarily.  I read most of the posts and I noted a number of stories of folks who had bad experiences with meds.  I've noticed some stories of people who had better success with alternative therapies (for lack of a better term).  I've noticed a number of posts by people who claim to not need meds but their mode of communication leaves one to think perhaps they need them more than they realize.  And I've seen a few posts by people who say meds have been very helpful to them.  All of their experiences are valid and you will never see me say anything else but that.  I dare you to search the archives and find any other position from me in regard to the validity of everyone's experience and finding their own balance.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

and a lot of the time spiritual centering IS treating an illness, sorry you cant agree.


Who said I didn't agree?  I never said anything of the sort.  I merely asked you to clarify what the hell we are talking about.  I'm aware of the validity of a holistic approach.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

you feel meds are the only way to cure/balance/maintain yourself. i can respect that opinion.


You can respect it all you want, but it's not my opinion nor has it ever been.  Again, perhaps you'd like to read those links I suggested in a previous post on this thread?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

i feel not everyone has to go down that path, if i may be so bold as to use myself as an example.


Finally, we agree on something.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

i have been battling depression since i was 13 [and possibly what may now be retroactively diagnosed as bipolar].



Imagine that.  I was diagnosed with uni-polar depression about the time puberty hit (between 11 and 12).  Later, much later and after many different experiences, I was diagnosed, retroactively, as bi-polar type 2 with cyclothymic/ mixed state episodes.  I will be 44 this Saturday.

We're not as different as you think.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

i tried meds, yes, multiple kinds. i "stuck it out" as i felt them wear me down, my own fault for turning to them in the desperation i owned. now i turn to other things to maintain my sanity, as exercise, meditation, cognitive reconditioning and self awareness and control.


Meds aren't for everyone, we've established that and agree on it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

if more people took the effort to try, and yes, not take what i will call the easy way, coz popping a pill is much easier than identifying what in you life is ruining it, and eradicating it and its effects.


Here we have had different experiences.  If you thought popping a pill was easier than self actualizing then you and I have dramatically different experiences with medication.  But then, I've been doin' the therapy thing off and on since I was 12.  I realize that the times between the 20somethings and the 30somethings tend to be the years we get introspective and develop that internal mirror, self actualize (god I hate that term) and finalize our autonomy; but I really REALLY hate the part of that period in which we all think we're the first freakin' person to have an epiphany.  Not that I want to minimize your efforts, but realize that for some of us it's so 'been there done that' there is no other way to address it.

Trust me, that introspection stuff gets a lot easier over the years.  I will toss you one unasked for opinion in regard to that process - the goal isn't to eradicate - it's to integrate.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

my point is was just that more people should try things like that before turning to the 'scripts.

oh right, i forgot this is America. my b.


Because you've had bad experiences, because you never found a balance using allopathic remedies, because you found something else that seems to work for you - so everyone else should jump over some bar you've set before 'resorting' to medications.  And you don't see that as judgemental?

I officially give up.  Good luck to you in your personal exploration.  I can certainly understand why it's been so challenging for you.







_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: keep the pills away!!! - 2/22/2007 8:13:33 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		never said everyone. jeez, why is that so hard to comprehend. yes i see where ypu say i keep falling on my sword, but you cant see the part where i never said everyone. i acknowledged that not all people can go without meds. i never called them lazy... you know .. YOU KNOW i refuse to believe that you can argue otherwise, that americans arent lazy and dont take meds they dont need because theres a pill for every ailment. how can you deny this? why must you focus on people who cant get off meds and make it sound like i am attacking them.

this post was supposed to unite people who seek alternative to pills, not show me as a domineering pill natzi with a bad idea about anyone on medication.

some people just took it too personally.

thanks for all your insight.

_____________________________


"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"


(in reply to MizSuz)
Profile   Post #: 88
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