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Almost everyone who comes in purely for relaxation

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"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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Almost everyone who comes in purely for relaxation or skin issues is a female first of all. (otherwise, its therapeutic and for something specific).

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"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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ORIGINAL: hermione83

That is absolutely ridiculous to think that massage therapists, physical therapists, chiropracters, aestheticians, etc are engaging in some sort of sexual activity. If someone was aroused, they would be asked to leave. Gynecologists aren't engaging in sexual activity. The part about nudie pictures is that someone somewhere is getting off to them. Massage is for healing, post-surgery/accident, relaxation, etc etc etc. And ANYWAY the point is, it wouldn't matter if I was the biggest whore on the planet - I wouldn't be a prostitute if I never charged someone to have me. And just a little FYI - no where in my profile did I say I engaged in any of it. I know what I like without doing it, and you can do things without physically doing them with someone else.. *sigh* I'm not a hypocrite in that, either. But it's just sort of sad it had to be brought up.

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ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Hermione ... d/s does not have to be enveloped in or lead to intimate relationships ... nor is d/s always about sexual desire ... see my post the MrThorn where I've pointed out a number of non sexual B&D, S&M and d/s scenarios ...

Why do these people call me their therapist?  I let them escape, I let them step outside their world and into mine ... my world doesn't judge his need to wear a pinstrip skirt and fold laundry, my world doesn't judge why out there he's stressed to the eyeballs or loathing himself for enjoying the ego trip his job/position gives him in society...

I guess (it's early morning here in Kiwi land and I need sleep) what I'm wanting to get across is ... try not to romanticise d/s ..because for many it's not about love, intimacy, or relationships

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ORIGINAL: asubmissiveheart

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ORIGINAL: MrThorns
The only thing I have claimed as fact in any of this is that:
1. Prodommes accept money for their services.
2. Prostitutes accept money for their services.
3. Prodommes perform what some would refer to as sexually-related activity
4. Prostitute has been legally defined in at least 3 countries and multiple states within the U.S.  as accepting money, goods or services for sexual and sexually-related activities.
 
I have no issues with pro dommes. 
I am not "picking" at what pro dommes do.
I am STILL not judging sex workers, pro dommes, prostitutes, or anyone else's choice of profession.
 
 
Hope you all have a pleasant evening...
 
~Thorns

Mr. Thorns said it best, and these are the facts.
Pro Dommes charge for sexually related activities.
Prostitutes charge for sexually related activities.
These are the facts, and anything that you feel or say does not change the facts.

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ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster


There is nothing in the etymology of prostitution that demands "sex for hire', however that is the common parlance meaning. Speaking in strictly literal and not social or cultural terms, prostitution hinges on intent. If you deliberately market sex, or sexuality - regardless of the form that marketing takes, then you are prostituting and by extension, you are a prostitute.

As the adage goes 'sex sells" - thats why we see tight little stumpets sprawled across motorcars. Its why jeans ads feature models dressed and designed to look sexually hot and/or wanton. Lets not kid ourselves, an underwear model knows very well that the reason she is modeling underwear and not someone else is for her physical beauty and sexual attractiveness. She knows very well that she is selling the image of herself in scanty undergarments. Does it matter whether the viewer, reader, receiver is turned on by these images or not? no, not at all, because it is the intent that matters, and for an underwear model, the intent is to sell underwear using sex and sexuality.

How does this impact on pro-domme? Simple, if it is her intent, through her work, to sell sex, sexuality, or a facsimile thereof, then she is prostituting and is by extension a prostitute. As has been mentioned many times, D/s is not necessarily sexual, and is distinct from sensation play.

Is being a prostitute, in technical terms, a bad thing? If you think it is, then it is, if you don't then it isn't. There is a lot of negativity assocaited with the word through its common and derogatory usage, that doesn't mean it is inherently bad.

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ORIGINAL: MrThorns

In the future, please find a way to support your argument... and learn to quote me accurately.

You said, "I think you'll be hard-pressed to find any law dictionary that defines flogging, caning and the like a sex act."

I believe I provided you with fairly clear legal definitions regarding prostitution and they really weren't hard to find.  Perhaps you passed that over and just went straight to being defensive.  You seem to talk a lot about legal definitions, but have yet to produce any.  In fact, you don't really provide anything but a lot of ..well.. unsupported whining, really. 

You say that, "Sex acts involve genitals with genitals or anus and genitals or anus with mouths."  Is that the legal definition in Colorado?  So  paying for a handjob on Colfax avenue is okay then, by your legal definition?

"We, unlike you, are very clear on exactly what the law states.." 
You have yet to provide that you know anything about the law beyond your own (mis)interpretation of it.

"Police are very clear on this, too, and do not target pro dommes because they are clear on our job descriptions.  They test everyone out to see if any of us are willing to bend the rules a bit, keep an eye on those that are to be sure they aren't becoming a public nuisance and leave alone the ones that don't bend the rules.  If no sex acts are being performed by their own legal definition, there is no cause for arrest or prosecution."
I suppose I will again have to take your word for it.. I mean, all these legal definitions you tell us you know about without providing any actual definitions... and your in-depth analysis of the workings of the local police is simply stunning.

"It's good enough for the legal system, but clearly not good enough for you.  Perhaps your next step should be lobbying your Congressional representative to get those laws changed so people like me know our place a little better."

Don't... just don't.  In all your overreactions and your defensiveness you think to color me as some kind of pro domme-hating prude from the religious right who is out to  bring fire and brimstone down upon the sinful hussies that like to eat babies and are destroying the morality of our fair youth..or some other such horseshit?  I have never said anything about what pro dommes do as being wrong.  I have never called a pro domme a whore, hooker, or any other derrogatory term.  I answered the OP's question by providing my viewpoint on the difference between someone who offers sex in exchange for money and someone who offers BDSM in exchange for money... and you want to get your panties in a twist over it?  Fine.. argue your position.. develop some kind of coherent rebuttal.. but leave your melodramatic, meaningless meanderings about what you think you know about me by the wayside.

"BDSM is not all about sex.  Sex is a small part of it and no, it is not standard operating procedure that the client gets his rocks off/achieves orgasm with a pro domme."
Never said it was...  

That whole "I got no problem with prostitutes, and I don't care what you say, you're a hooker" 
is ridiculous and transparent. 
Well, you're right... I don't care much about what you have to say.  However, I do care that you never seem to quote me correctly.  I do care that you choose to try and put words in my mouth and that you assume to know something about me. 
 
"You want to reduce what we do to sex acts, whether we're performing sex acts or not.  The idea that couples might come to us to learn to play with each other, or that crossdressers might need a non-judgmental place to go to learn to be more passable, or that someone just needs to be beaten til they fly sounds a little too much like what everyone else in the scene does.  We're good enough at it and we love it enough that we devote ourselves to it 24/7, and a lot of lifestylers resent that and try to find reasons to pick at it.  Whatever.  Knock yourself out.  Continuing to spread misinformation about what pro dommes do might comfort you somehow, but it's weak as hell. "

There you go again...  I mean, did you ever read my original post, or did you just go straight to Defcon 1? Did I say anything about BDSM being only about sex acts?  Those are your words. What the hell do you know about what I want? 
 
The only thing I have claimed as fact in any of this is that:
1. Prodommes accept money for their services.
2. Prostitutes accept money for their services.
3. Prodommes perform what some would refer to as sexually-related activity
4. Prostitute has been legally defined in at least 3 countries and multiple states within the U.S.  as accepting money, goods or services for sexual and sexually-related activities.
 
I have no issues with pro dommes. 
I am not "picking" at what pro dommes do.
I am STILL not judging sex workers, pro dommes, prostitutes, or anyone else's choice of profession.
 
 
Hope you all have a pleasant evening...
 
~Thorns
 
 

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ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster

FWIW "sex acts" includes any form of inappropriate or intimate contact, including touching of the breasts, thighs, and buttocks.

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ORIGINAL: Stephann
Having established that they're similar in function, hardly implies they are the same.  Oranges and baseballs are similar size, shape, and weight, but freshly squeezed baseball juice doesn't seem to go as well with my pancakes.  It's my opinion that people who claim Pro-Dominants are 'just the same as prostitutes' are really trying to say that 'Pro's are just as bad as prostitutes!'  This, on the other hand, is a whole other topic.

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ORIGINAL: hermione83

I pretty much think anyone who sells their love, affection, friendship, body, etc etc is doing something wrong, whether you call it prostitution or not. And you know - anyone who sells anything that gives anyone any sexual fulfillment at all, in my eyes is a prostitute. Whether you're a haute couture model posing nude or partially, doing some entertainment ala-Britney Spears, a stripper, a phone sex-op, a pro-domme, a pro-sub, a girl in a pink fur coat with spots on it hanging out a central park at night looking for a car to hop into, or a person selling her body for a meal to feed her five kids who were born with her HIV in 3rd world country.