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RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 11/14/2007 2:40:50 PM

Posts: 345
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From: Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

I pretty much think anyone who sells their love, affection, friendship, body, etc etc is doing something wrong, whether you call it prostitution or not. And you know - anyone who sells anything that gives anyone any sexual fulfillment at all, in my eyes is a prostitute. Whether you're a haute couture model posing nude or partially, doing some entertainment ala-Britney Spears, a stripper, a phone sex-op, a pro-domme, a pro-sub, a girl in a pink fur coat with spots on it hanging out a central park at night looking for a car to hop into, or a person selling her body for a meal to feed her five kids who were born with her HIV in 3rd world country.

I'm so relieved you feel that way. I'm not selling love, affection, friendship OR my body or posing in a pink fur coat with spots on it. Maybe I should get one. I'm just selling my skills and my reputation as a nationally-known top-notch dominant, educator, activist and performer. I'm slated to be selling my BDSM skills as a writer, too. People might become titillated by my writing. Hm. Would that be prostitution?

You seriously figure model = prostitute? Seriously?

I've been watching this thread and finally had to make a comment. For someone involved in an alternative lifestyle, it amazes me that you could have such a puritan attitude. Flogging, whipping, torturing of any kind is considered illegal in most places... whether both parties agree to it or not. Slavery is also illegal. Yet you claim to be involved in this lifestyle??

If models are prostitutes, so would be actress/actors, writers, anyone in entertainment that turns anyone else on.

Ohhhh... Orlando Bloom being flogged in Pirates.... I never thought of him as a male prostitute before.... I will have to give THAT fantasy some more thought. <chuckle>

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(in reply to MsSaskia)

Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 2:57:10 PM

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Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
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Colorado Criminal Code, 18-7-201. Prostitution prohibited.

(1) Any person who performs or offers or agrees to perform any act of sexual intercourse, fellatio, cunnilingus, masturbation, or anal intercourse with any person not his spouse in exchange for money or other thing of value commits prostitution.

(2) (a) "Fellatio", as used in this section, means any act of oral stimulation of the penis.
(b) "Cunnilingus", as used in this section, means any act of oral stimulation of the vulva or clitoris.
(c) "Masturbation", as used in this section, means stimulation of the genital organs by manual or other bodily contact exclusive of sexual intercourse.
(d) "Anal intercourse", as used in this section, means contact between human beings of the genital organs of one and the anus of another.
(3) Prostitution is a class 3 misdemeanor.

History
Source: L. 71: R&RE, p. 451, § 1. C.R.S. 1963: § 40-7-201. L. 77: Entire section R&RE, p. 987, § 1, effective May 27
.
* * * *
Interestingly enough, this statute does not address strapon use, which is commonly accepted as illegal by pro dommes across the country as well as at my own house. We've been exceeding the requirements of the letter of the law.

(in reply to MystressDream)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 3:00:44 PM

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From: Colorado
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Damn..... That means Orlando isn't a prostitute? <heavy sigh> Oh well... I doubt I could afford him anyway....

Does open up an additional activity in your house, however. <grin>

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Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
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(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 3:18:48 PM

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From: Denver
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

Damn..... That means Orlando isn't a prostitute? <heavy sigh> Oh well... I doubt I could afford him anyway....

Does open up an additional activity in your house, however. <grin>

LOL - I don't know what state (if any) Orlando Bloom lives in. He's so purty, he oughtta be illegal.

For strapon stuff, the other Pavlovians may be cheered to know that if they decide to do it in sessions, the law here doesn't preclude it. For myself, though, I don't like dealing with poo, plus it's such an intimate act for me it feels too much like sex and it's just not something I feel comfortable doing with a client unless I've known them for a few years and we've become friends. It's mostly just not in my repetoire, legal or no.

We also bear in mind that when we're doing things like medical play we could get in trouble for practicing medicine without a license. That's something everyone that does medical play - even something as innocuous as temporary piercings - is at risk for, pro domme or not. And until the law recognizes BDSM officially, it's still at the discretion of an arresting officer who sees marks on one or both parties whether a domestic violence arrest is in order.

I think that in the next five years, the law is going to begin to make exceptions or special recognition of BDSM. Precendents are already being very slowly set. Hopefully it'll be a trend.

(in reply to MystressDream)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 3:20:07 PM

AtlantaMistress

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Joined: 6/14/2007
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I also find it hard to believe that someone who lives an "alternative" lifestyle is so judgemental. Unfortunately, I deal with this too often - usually by woman that do not have the intellect or beauty I do to have to be able to be a successful as I am, or men who cannot afford to session. I will not waste my time defending what I do because I really do not care what your opinion of me is, or wish to debate you, or in any way influence your view on the subject itself. I find in general, in all aspects of life, that those who pass judgment or put down others are not happy in their own lives and this pure negative energy they put out just continues the cycle of their discontent. When you are truly happy and at peace in your own life, you don't find the need to spend your precious time pointing out your negative and close minded opinions of how other people lead their lives. I believe what you put out is what you get back, so I write this as completely constructive criticism - to hope that you can try to let go of the negativity and focus only on positive energy. Wishing you the best...

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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(in reply to MystressDream)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 3:43:43 PM

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breaking the law breaking the law lol I fought authority authority always wins
lol

(in reply to AtlantaMistress)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 4:41:27 PM

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Oh the horror, the shame, what will I do...Im sooooo devestated..... Ive read the thread over the last few days, and Ive learned several things, the most horrifying

being that Im a prostitute(a hooker, a slag, a harlot, a "no good" whore, a trollop, a hussy

ad nauseum) because 95% of the items I sell in my business are supposed to inspire sexual feelings, and promote healthy sexuality...someone stone me quick.....How can I live with myself????......the answer is very happily thank you.
The derogatory comments, the "superiority " moralising actually made me throw up a little... and no matter what power I give a word (or not) they are derogatory to most people, because that is how they are mostly meant. The moralising as usual comes from ignorance or bitterness and anger, rightly or wrongly...not much I can do about that, Im only responsible for myself.
Most of the Pro Dommes I know have been the backbone of the BDSM community in so many ways, If my circumstances were different, I would be a Pro.... because I am interested in what makes people tick especially emotionally and sexually...oh and I do love beatin on a nice bare bottom and Im a toy whore.
The first man whose butt I ever beat in public gifted me a flogger, he made it himself. It wasnt suggested or requested, he did it out of the goodness of his heart. I still have that flogger, and its very special to me. We both got an awful lot out of the evening, smiles, I just remember sitting holding hands, coming down slowly enjoying the energy waves.
If this is "wrong", then I dont wanna be right. To all the ProDommes who posted some awesome repsonses...... Whip On ladies and keep teachin :)
Dont let the bastards (not aimed at anyone specifically) grind ya down
Lucy

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(in reply to AtlantaMistress)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 5:32:58 PM

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Yes, imho, a model selling anything using her body to sell sex is a prostitute - to women or men. Whether they get turned on or it inspires them to go out and buy lingerie. Women do care to study other women's naked bodies and it does sell lingerie. Why not just try to sell using pictures of the lingerie not on a body? I would agree that the intent / selling aspect is the part that makes it prostitution. (And a Domme knows that she is toying with something that can certainly be sexual in nature and a massage therapist is trying to provide a therapeutic service and would be horrified if someone was thinking of it in a sexual manner.) And just to be stubborn and Puritan again, I think nude bodies should only be for one's spouse - not for the public. If someone "happens" to lust after you because you pose - it is your fault that they are commiting those sins in their head because you're the one that allowed those pictures to be taken. Or for example, someone who dresses provocatively then may cause another to commit adultery by being tempted into fantasizing about her instead of his wife. I realize a woman with a turtleneck may be the object of a fantasy, regardless, but if it was out of her control and not because of how she acted or dressed - then that isn't on her head anymore. People should at least try. I do sort of look down on selling for selling's sake in general, too. I can't help myself - but I think anyone who has a business or sells anything should be trying to put others first and benefit them and be allowed to make a living based of providing something that truly helps people - as opposed to creating a need and shamelessly selling something that might be false (scams), or something that might be bad for someone else.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 5:54:28 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
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quote:

If someone "happens" to lust after you because you pose - it is your fault that they are commiting those sins in their head because you're the one that allowed those pictures to be taken. Or for example, someone who dresses provocatively then may cause another to commit adultery by being tempted into fantasizing about her instead of his wife. I realize a woman with a turtleneck may be the object of a fantasy, regardless, but if it was out of her control and not because of how she acted or dressed - then that isn't on her head anymore. People should at least try.

Just to follow your argument to its logical conclusion, how do you feel about the argument that "a woman who got raped while in a miniskirt and heels was asking for it because she dressed provocatively, and if she didn't want to be raped she would have gone out in a turtleneck and baggy jeans"?

(in reply to hermione83)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 5:55:36 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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Hiya folks,

I just yanked these out of the dictionary:

pros·ti·tute       (prŏs'tĭ-tōōt', -tyōōt') Pronunciation Key
n.
One who solicits and accepts payment for sex acts.
One who sells one's abilities, talent, or name for an unworthy purpose.
tr.v.   pros·ti·tut·ed, pros·ti·tut·ing, pros·ti·tutes

To offer (oneself or another) for sexual hire.
To sell (oneself or one's talent, for example) for an unworthy purpose.As a noun, the concept of 'sex acts' is a little vague; but obviously we'd rely on the legal standard to define what a 'sex act' is. The obligation to buy dinner in order to get a kiss at the end of the night could, technically, fall under that definition. Courts in western countries don't consider it to be so. I certainly don't. Same goes for a lingerie model. While they may be 'prostituting' themselves in applying their talents towards a purpose I might deem unworthy, it's hardly my judgment of their lives that matters here. Herein lies the crux; I don't see anything wrong with people engaging in sex work. I don't see anything wrong with a professional dominant doing what they do. What I do see wrong, are harsh judgmental attitudes towards consenting, capable adults in a free society. If I want to sell my $5,000 for $50,000, that's MY business. It's a private transaction between myself, and another individual. If there's a tax or levy on such transactions, that's another matter; I think the biggest mistake of most states is to outlaw prostitution, rather than regulate and tax it like any other service. I think the moral grounds with which people attack prostitution tend to come from a place of high-handed altruism, fueled by a failed demagogy.

Stephan

utes'

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(in reply to hermione83)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 6:13:38 PM

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xoxi - No, I don't agree with that at all... I would too put blame on the person lusting after another, as well, but I didn't think that needed to be mentioned. It might've gotten the girl you mentioned noticed, but no, it is not her fault, it is the rapist's, of course. I'm just talking about personal responsibility for the thought lives of others and a subtle corruption being a very bad thing, too. I obviously would therefore feel even more strongly about such a heinous violent crime.. I think it's sad that you would think that someone who thinks the way I do would be in such a twisted cycle of thinking because they seem too good.. I'm not any sort of female hater, either.

(in reply to Stephann)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 6:55:46 PM

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From: New Zealand
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Hermione ... we're all entitled to hold beliefs that fit within our value systems ... but for the life of me I can't buy the

quote:

for example, someone who dresses provocatively then may cause another to commit adultery by being tempted into fantasizing about her instead of his wife

... the same arguement was used here in New Zealand by the leader of a Christian party opposing the Prostitution Reform Bill, which would legalise prostitution in New Zealand ... his claim was that if there were more prostitutes working then it would be harder for married men to not stray from their partners ... but in your claim above you squarely lay blame on the rapist in the scenario given by xoxi ... surely the same responsibility would need to be shouldered by the married christian men who stray or hold lustful thoughts for someone other than their wife?

Incidently ... the leader of the Christian party who so opposed the legalising of prostitution in our fair land (and gay rights) as being the downfall of society ... is now serving prison time for the rape and sexual assualt of not one, but 3, girls under the age of 12, 8 was the youngest age when he first began violating one, his reign of sexual assault was over a 10 year period, during which time he was very vocal about family values and the protection of children from sexual evil and moral decay. Even now, from his prison cell he claims there was nothing wrong with his sexual assault and rapes of these young girls, suggesting that they wanted it.

Please do excuse my hatred for extremist views that cast women in the role of regulating and controling male sexual response, lust or libidoes ... I don't have a cock ...I'm not responsible for what someone else's cock does. Wishing patriachol virtue upon your sisters is oppressive and insulting.

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(in reply to hermione83)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 7:16:25 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

xoxi - No, I don't agree with that at all... I would too put blame on the person lusting after another, as well, but I didn't think that needed to be mentioned. It might've gotten the girl you mentioned noticed, but no, it is not her fault, it is the rapist's, of course. I'm just talking about personal responsibility for the thought lives of others and a subtle corruption being a very bad thing, too. I obviously would therefore feel even more strongly about such a heinous violent crime.. I think it's sad that you would think that someone who thinks the way I do would be in such a twisted cycle of thinking because they seem too good.. I'm not any sort of female hater, either.

I didn't think you actually thought that...I was just asking because it seemed the logical conclusion of blaming a woman for being lusted after. I personally see nothing wrong with dressing in an attractive manner. I don't dress like a slut, because I think it's tacky, but my favorite 'little black dress' is an off the shoulder number that ends mid thigh. Arms, neck, and especially endless legs bared for the world to see..and a nice pair of heels to go with it. If anyone lusts after me, that's really their concern not mine. My profile pictures are taken to make me look attractive as well...just because I'm taken doesn't mean I'm going to dress like a frump when I go out. I like the fact that everyone who sees me will be jealous of my Man because he gets to take me home....but more than that I like the fact that HE wants to take me home.

I guess if he wanted me in turtlenecks and jeans year round that's his prerogative...I just wouldn't understand why he wouldn't like to show me off.

< Message edited by xoxi -- 11/14/2007 7:19:10 PM >

(in reply to hermione83)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 7:50:35 PM

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Jasmyn, not everyone who calls theirself a Chrisian *is a Christian*. Random, but 'm not for abortion, OR the death penalty, and I happen to be a conservative Christian in that I believe every word of the Bible is truth, and yet liberal in politics. I'm not a republican at all. I didn't even say whether I think prostitution should be illegal, or not. I personally make sure that I have a higher standard for myself than the simple one the law puts on me. So anyway, one of the most damaging things that can be done to someone looking for some place caring they might see some of Christ's love ... is instead of finding that they find extreme evil. And I am so sorry that happens. As I said above, though, I am NOT putting the blame solely on the woman. It's nothing like that. Yes, a man is responsible for what he thinks and does. But so is a woman. Some men have a very hard time not looking at a woman with say 50% of her bare skin showing. I don't think he should have to be tempted like that. No, I don't understanding showing a girl off. There are ways of dressing prettily without showing skin or looking sexual. I didn't mean everyone had to wear turtlenecks and baggy jeans. I personally would never wear a dress like that, and I would never desire to hurt someone by making them feel jealous that they don't have me etc. etc. etc. I don't think that's a cool thing, and that is exactly what it does to men. And to women who have self-esteem problems, or deformities, etc it only makes them feel horrible about themselves. I don't want to gain anything from toying with anyone's emotions with what I wear. You can wear a pretty dress that covers your body up and look attractive to your mate in public. There's no reason to do more. Also, only an insecure man or Master needs to show his woman off. He knows he's got her. He doesn't need anyone else to be imagining what he's doing to her when she gets home. I'd hope that if there were single, lonely people out that I wouldn't evilly flaunt anything in their face. I hope I've never done that to anyone. I just can't understand that. Isn't enough that you have each other? What does anyone else matter? And if you want to dress sexy, why not do it at home when only the right person will be enjoying it? I always thought it was interesting how some people wear sweats at home but go to extremes to look gorgeous when they go out. Is it really, then, for the affections of the one they are with at home? Or for the public opinion? To get stares? That's a shame..

< Message edited by hermione83 -- 11/14/2007 8:01:33 PM >

(in reply to xoxi)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/14/2007 8:27:12 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
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I guess I can see your point. It is a sin of mine (pride) and also invoking sins in others (lust, envy) for dressing up for that reason. But...I'm human. I like to feel beautiful. The dress I mentioned fits like it was made just for me...it's hard to find a dress that fits perfectly if you aren't a size 6. It's not just the showing off skin that makes me feel good...but the fact that it flatters my figure.

And I'm a Leo...I like to be shown off

I figure there are worse things I can do than boosting my man's ego in public. It's not like I call anyone else ugly. I just call myself beautiful.

(in reply to hermione83)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/15/2007 5:07:30 AM

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The only women in this area who wear mini skirts are the old bar flies. To the one who said that women dont have the intellect and beauty that I do. I say to you go into a bar at closing time. Any woman still there then is an intellectual beauty. How did the bible get into this thread. I thought it was about prostitutes and women who are in denial that they are one.

(in reply to xoxi)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/15/2007 11:16:56 AM

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From: Denver
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

The only women in this area who wear mini skirts are the old bar flies. To the one who said that women dont have the intellect and beauty that I do. I say to you go into a bar at closing time. Any woman still there then is an intellectual beauty. How did the bible get into this thread. I thought it was about prostitutes and women who are in denial that they are one.

And here I was thinking it was a thread about sanctimonious lifestylers who think conventional wisdom is the same as a legal definition. Go figure. Turns out it's a thread about sanctimonious lifestylers who think conventional wisdom is the same as a legal definition, get schooled, but decide their original stance is more gratifying so they'll stick with it.

My bad.

(in reply to Dnomyar)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/15/2007 11:39:10 AM

xoxi

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LOL

(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/15/2007 12:51:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

And here I was thinking it was a thread about sanctimonious lifestylers who think conventional wisdom is the same as a legal definition. Go figure. Turns out it's a thread about sanctimonious lifestylers who think conventional wisdom is the same as a legal definition, get schooled, but decide their original stance is more gratifying so they'll stick with it.

My bad.

You rock.

(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: Legal definition of prostitution in my state - 11/15/2007 2:16:49 PM

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There are none so blind as those that will not see MsSaskia

But MEH is all I can say....without flagellating an expired equine
Lucy

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Alumbrado)

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