RE: A new idea? (Full Version)

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mistoferin -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 7:59:48 AM)

quote:

And I think there are ways to express ourselves without being confrontational and being reasonable. For example, I wear scene tshirts out in public a lot, some of them have pretty obvious bdsm overtones to them. I also go out in public with my partners all together and will show affection for all of them, hugs, kisses, touching gently, ruffling their hair, etc. I will also order them to do things in a casual but stern manner, nothing to interrupt the flow of whats going on around us, but definitely not a normal way. I would also be ok with someone quietly kneeling in a restaurant or out in public as long as they were not in an aisle or blocking anyones path.


I must disagree here. I personally don't see any of these things as being approriate in a vanilla setting. For example, I don't think it is any more approriate to wear an obvious bdsm t-shirt into a vanilla setting than it would be to wear a t-shirt with "FUCK YOU" emblazoned across the front of it to Chuckie Cheese. And I certainly would not wish to try to explain why there is a man kneeling at your feet in a restaurant to a child who may be there to witness such an act.



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 8:40:03 AM)

quote:

If PUBLIC, unsanitary practices are the only way to get excited I suggest you question your Master/self. Piss all you want, just not where my family will be exposed to it.


That is assuming that the unsanitary practise you are refering to is a way for a person to get excited. Not all BDSM practises are about sexual responses.

Don't get me wrong, the aforementioned practise isn't 'my thing'... and I do understand your point of view there - but I find it amazing that people can single say - that out, and yet still tolerate (even if with rising opposition) smoking in a public place - drinking - swearing... I think that people as a whole need to set out the whole list and not just discriminate one act.
quote:

RE: 20 min rule

My personal philiosophy is to allocate time effectively. Ten percent of my time is allowed for understanding / complaining about a particular problem. The other 90 % is used to figure out what to do about the situation.


If 20 min rule works for you, cool - use it. But you don't have to thrust it onto others.

quote:

Our sexual preferences don't need to rule our world and seem like they could if we spend too much time here . Where is the spontaneous excitement of sex when you are repeat what you learned from a website? Get some ideas here and 'get a life.'


Again with the sexual preference - you are generalizing and assuming that all BDSM is about sex. Thats like suggesting that all sex is about BDSM - and thats just not true.
Submission is what I live - it isn't a concious, premeditated decision, its something that is part of who I am, just like someone who is gay, or a women inside a mans body - or some one who is left handed - theres no agenda, theres no plan, it isn't all sexual - If its just about sex for you, great, go with it - discover what makes you tick, but don't label everyone the same way. It isn't all sexual for me, and numerous others, for us, sex is just a perk.

As for the website - its just a site - you are assuming people are just following it like a book. Well, I wouldn't recommend it as a life, but it is ideas, learning, and experience... just like any other book. You can't read it all and then be a Master/Mistress of BDSM - but its like a recipe, all the ingredients are there on the page, but you gots to go out and look for them yourself, experiment yourself with all the stuff before you get the end result that tastes right for you.

quote:

Pissing in public places is a very non-accountable act.


When did it become non-accountable?

quote:

Also, rote acceptance of societally 'deviant' behavior expressed here is as ignorant as accepting oppressive dictators. Even us liberals need to cognitively dissect info.

I believe if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. I am sick of watching the USA loose credibility in International arenas. (I work in Europe 4 months a year). One of the most common beliefs there is that Americans are self-satisfying, non- partriotic cowards who have had tooooo much freedom and not enough accountability.


You don't see the Middle East agenda as 'dominants gone awry?' I do... they would love to conquer a socially divided nation. My goodness, if we can't agree on where it is appropriate to relieve ourselves what can we agree on?


Like I said - not going there - theres another thread on that and would be happy to discuss politics there if you want - but this is a BDSM forum.

Peace and Love



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 8:48:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

And I think there are ways to express ourselves without being confrontational and being reasonable. For example, I wear scene tshirts out in public a lot, some of them have pretty obvious bdsm overtones to them. I also go out in public with my partners all together and will show affection for all of them, hugs, kisses, touching gently, ruffling their hair, etc. I will also order them to do things in a casual but stern manner, nothing to interrupt the flow of whats going on around us, but definitely not a normal way. I would also be ok with someone quietly kneeling in a restaurant or out in public as long as they were not in an aisle or blocking anyones path.


I must disagree here. I personally don't see any of these things as being approriate in a vanilla setting. For example, I don't think it is any more approriate to wear an obvious bdsm t-shirt into a vanilla setting than it would be to wear a t-shirt with "FUCK YOU" emblazoned across the front of it to Chuckie Cheese. And I certainly would not wish to try to explain why there is a man kneeling at your feet in a restaurant to a child who may be there to witness such an act.


*grinz to my friend erin*

Hey - you know what I am gonna say now!...lol...

So how do you explain to a child about two men holding hands?
Or dogs in the park?
Or why there is a war?
Or what that child is doing with flies all over his face and a swollen belly, sobbing his eyes out?
Or Will & Grace?
or prayer?

They are NOT stupid and see everything. Lie to them, hide stuff from them - creates more problems than to be open and truthful when they ask. Whats the problem with a child seeing someone kneel? If they go to a church, they see the same and no one blinks an eye. You explain, they don't have to kneel to that particular god - its what some people do - but you explain why they do it, to the best way they can comprehend.

Peace and Love



haloscorned -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 9:13:59 AM)

I have accidently posted a new thread about this topic. Great minds think alike, but I was the only idiot who didn't read this one first. My appologies for drawing on in the subject.

~Brickland



Mercnbeth -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 9:19:07 AM)

quote:

15/20 years ago a gay person holding hands with 'his/her' partner was outside the acceptable 'norms' of my country (Ireland).


35 years ago a gay person in this slave's country was considered mentally ill and needing of a therapist to help "cure" them. thanks to those who didn't just agree with the vanilla's and the societal "norms" and stood up for themselves, the APA leaders got together and voted to remove it from the DSM as a psychiatric disorder.
Our society has now embraced these previously viewed "sick-o's" and it is now against the law to discriminate against them, as well as our pop culture has embraced them with the success of shows like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and "Will & Grace".

Currently, all exhibitionists, fetishists, sexual sadists, sexual masochists and transgendered individuals are considered by the APA to be mentally ill and needing of a therapist and/or medication to "cure" them. The current "norms" of our vanilla society paint pedofiles and fetishists with the same psychiatric brush---who will stand up for us and pressure the APA? Every one of you who pretends to be vanilla except behind the bedroom doors?

disclaimer: this was directed at the OP and the other posters to this thread not directed at DublinSwitch...



Raphael -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 9:48:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobcatsLilMinx

I always think kissing/hugging in public is a hazy shade of grey... some people can be really offended by it... others, not. It's impossible to draw a definite line... I daresay some people wouldn't find it offensive to see someone piss in public.


The way I see it, it's not that you can't draw a line, it's that there are really two lines.

One is bright and clear to me, and that's the line that says that people do NOT have a right to not be offended. That's dangerous nonsense. The common claim that simply because someone *might* see something they didn't really want to, you're 'involving them without consent' is what I'm talking about here. Take it to the logical conclusion, and you wind up unable to do anything at all in public - some lunatic, somewhere, will find it offensive. It doesn't need to be BDSM related - by this logic, for instance, political bumper stickers/buttons and so forth should all be illegal (hey, I didn't consent to be exposed to that message!) The bright line here is clearly the other way. You need consent to do things to other people - but you don't need consent from everyone in earshot before you open your mouth to speak, or everyone with line-of-sight before you do something they might see.

But the other line is quite fuzzy, and a matter of good judgement, or lack thereof. Just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean that you should do it. Just because you have a right to say and do things your neighbors may find offensive, doesn't mean you should antagonise them unecessarily. Quite the contrary, I think it's just good common sense to anticipate the reactions of others (to the degree that you can reasonably do so) and avoid causing yourself, and others around you problems, even when you have a right to do so.




mistoferin -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 9:48:52 AM)

quote:

They are NOT stupid and see everything. Lie to them, hide stuff from them - creates more problems than to be open and truthful when they ask.


dark~angel, you know I honestly respect the things you say here. But.....I'm sorry I disagree. I believe it is a parent's responsibility to shelter their child as much as they possibly can from things that are beyond their age level of comprehension. I well know your feelings on it and I do respect them. I, however, do not feel the same way.

This is really not about children being subjected though....it is about flagrantly displaying what society deems to be outside the "norm". While, at least in this country, you are free to do so if you choose, you also have to understand that there will be those who don't approve and will call you on it.

There are those who believe that public sex should be ok....I mean it is a completely natural act after all. But in this society is not ok to be bumping uglies on the table in your local McDonald's. There are those who think that prejudicial and anti-semetic remarks are funny and in good taste. But in this society it is not ok to go into your local synagogue and loudly declare that you hate Jews. I see these things as no different.

This lifestyle is based on consent....and where is the consent of those you come in contact with? It is just a matter of common courtesy.



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 10:00:17 AM)

quote:

But in this society is not ok to be bumping uglies on the table in your local McDonald's


omgosh - I know this is away from the tread - but I suddenly heard the phrase of ''...you want fries with dat....?''
[sm=lol.gif]

quote:

There are those who think that prejudicial and anti-semetic remarks are funny and in good taste.


Yup ... and my point is that I shouldn't shelter anyone from these things - but proclaim how wrong they are. Explain why they are. From my point of view.

lol erin - why is it we can always disagree, yet respect each other totally - ain't we the shinning examples!!!...* lmbo*...[:)]

Peace and Love



Lordandmaster -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 10:09:19 AM)

The problem is that what you or any other individual considers "appropriate" is not useful as a standard of behavior on a national scale. It can't be. If everyone had the opportunity to nix whatever they dislike, no one would be permitted to do anything. (And WE'D all be sitting in a gas chamber or insane asylum.)

That doesn't mean you don't have a right to your opinion: of course you do. It means what I've been saying on the thread that I think started this whole thing (Degradation 101), namely, that part of the experience of being alive is living in a world where people do things you don't consider appropriate.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

For example, I don't think it is any more approriate to wear an obvious bdsm t-shirt into a vanilla setting than it would be to wear a t-shirt with "FUCK YOU" emblazoned across the front of it to Chuckie Cheese.




KngEircBrehonWng -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 10:34:06 AM)

Siamsa24:
I would agree with you on this topic, it is the problem that you point out rightly. Non-consenting individuals have every right to walk the same streets as you do, do similiar things as you do, but not have the same Kink as you do. I for one am not into the gay male scene, I am a straight male but I like to be an rp Dom Male Master, most times.

Here I hope to do even abit more than that........though I am in Nova Scotia, does that exclude me from being an Male Straight Dom Master and King as I call myself?
Is it right for me to think the way I do? Well one thing is I don't like to be pestered by the Gay males that seem to be responding to me and my profile here, that is their kink not mine. I would also like to point out, Siamsa24, that in Halifax, NS.....that there is a problem with Gay Males and I think some johns and their hookers going to a public park that is pretty wooded and kinking, not caring whom sees what goes on at night and whom may be comming by, some of this stuff is going on there right durning the day.



KngEircBrehonWng -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 10:49:08 AM)

Bobcat'slilminx:
Well I think it is ok that you two can briefly hug and kiss in public, I agree that it is not wise to share tender moments in public that should be in a private house in the bedroom. As being a straight male, I have had girlfriends before and the more personal moments I would not share publically.....the more heavy petting if you want to term it that way?

As others have said in here, it is different kinks for every one; I know I have my own kinks, I have porno mags and porno videoes, I have a website on MSN and one on Yahoo of my "kinks". That still makes me a very normal male and a straight one.............sometimes I watch "Showcase" late at night, however I do not agree with everything on B&SM on "Kink". But if others wish to do all that stuff and have deep pockets that is up to them, as you see from my pic in my profile I am I guess kingly but have had nowhere to actually do my kingly stuff, here I can express myself as you all do.



ShiftedJewel -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 10:59:32 AM)

quote:

They are NOT stupid and see everything. Lie to them, hide stuff from them - creates more problems than to be open and truthful when they ask.


Ok, as much as I hate to, I have to get involved here.

When my sister was first married to her now ex husband, they openly smoked (censored to save this post) in front of their (censor for the same reason). They were strong believers in being open and honest with them. I disagreed then, and I do now... strongly. Not because I feel like they are stupid or don't notice the world around them, I know better, but because at that age they don't deal with the world the same way we, as adults, do. My sister and I were washing dishes one day and her oldest was in the yard with a friend, they were bored and trying to figure out what to do, so her eldest said "I have an idea! Let's pretend we're smoking a (censored again here)! Ok, you may think what you do is ok, or "normal" in your life, your best friends may think so too, but your childs friends parents may NOT think so. And in my not so humble opinion, NO child should be ostracized because of their parents life choices.

And yes, I've heard all the same stuff about explaining it and then making it a point to make it clear that it's a "secret" and they can't tell anyone about it.... cuz Lord knows how good a kid is about that!

Plain and simple, if it is something you do not want your kids or other kids imitating or repeating... don't do it in front of them.

Jewel



siamsa24 -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 10:59:40 AM)

quote:

I would also like to point out, Siamsa24, that in Halifax, NS.....that there is a problem with Gay Males and I think some johns and their hookers going to a public park that is pretty wooded and kinking, not caring whom sees what goes on at night and whom may be comming by, some of this stuff is going on there right durning the day.



Whoa, I don't know exactly what you are trying to say, but I want to make if very clear that I have no issues with same sex couples and I don't consider then a "problem"
I think that every couple or group, gay, straight, bi, polka-dot or whatever should just respect others and their little ones.

It may also have to do with where I live. When I am at school I live in a rural conservative town where anything beyond handholding is considered excessive. When I am not at school I live on the more ritzy side of town, again, anything beyond handholding is frowned upon. Do I think that I should change everything that I do to please others? No, but I do think that people should be able to go out to wherever they would like to go and not be subjected to things that are potentially harmful to their well-being and their children's. This includes secondhand smoke, public fighting (both physical and verbal), sex acts, and many other things. Maybe I am in the minority, but I think that if everyone tried to make the world a nicer place for everyone that it would improve things a bit.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 11:05:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: siamsa24
Maybe I am in the minority, but I think that if everyone tried to make the world a nicer place for everyone that it would improve things a bit.

For me that would include being able to be naked when/where I want. Whose version of "nicer" are we discussing?



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 11:07:25 AM)

Well - again - I have to agree and disagree.

I agree that doing something (such as smoking - to just mention one point) in front of children in an acceptable atmosphere is wrong. BUT... informing what smoking does and what it is about is another thing entirely.

Some of my friends smoke. My parents do. My children are aware of smoking. They are also aware of the consequence. They know that cancer can be a result - asthma - lung disease... my son is a passionate anti smoking objecter - and even asks adults to ' not do that in his presence because he doesn't want to be effected by their ignorance'(direct quote) If they are informed - they can make an informed choice. If they are not, then they can make a dangerous choice.

Peace and Love.



siamsa24 -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 11:16:26 AM)

quote:

' not do that in his presence because he doesn't want to be effected by their ignorance'


That's great, that sounds like something my sister would do.


I agree with telling them about it and educating them about it, but you also can't expect a very young one to be able to understand these things (BDSM I mean).
And what about the parents that don't want to talk to their children about sex and sexual activities until they are older? Who are we to force it upon them?


quote:

For me that would include being able to be naked when/where I want. Whose version of "nicer" are we discussing?


The version of nicer that exsists when people respect other people's levels of comfort and adjust their behavior to show courtasy for those levels.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 11:29:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: siamsa24
The version of nicer that exsists when people respect other people's levels of comfort and adjust their behavior to show courtasy for those levels.

For them to show courtesy for my level of comfort would mean not getting fluffed at all at the tshirts I enjoy wearing.

For me to show courtesy for their level of comfort would mean not wearing the tshirts I enjoy wearing.

Whose level of comfort should be attended to?



ShiftedJewel -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 11:36:32 AM)

quote:

They know that cancer can be a result - asthma - lung disease... my son is a passionate anti smoking objecter - and even asks adults to ' not do that in his presence because he doesn't want to be effected by their ignorance'(direct quote) If they are informed - they can make an informed choice. If they are not, then they can make a dangerous choice.


Ok, one of us is having a blond moment. Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough, my bad. But I am not opposed to saying cigarettes here, and it is also not against TOS to say that, what I was refering to IS against TOS to say or discuss, which is why I only hinted at what it was really supposed to say... My sister and her husband believed at that time that it was fine to smoke "this part of the sentence is censored because the word that belongs here is against TOS to discuss" (meaning an illegal substance that only slightly resembles cigarettes) And yes, kids are fully aware of that substance too, I'm sure, but that doesn't make it ok to subject them to it and all it would entail should they tell their friends about it, who in turn would mention it in front of their parents, who in turn would refuse to allow their child to play with your child and from there you know you ugly it can get. That's my point. Hopefully

Jewel



Mercnbeth -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 11:45:40 AM)

quote:

Whose level of comfort should be attended to?


this slave goes by the following rule: this slave will not do anything today that will get this slave arrested



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 11:56:29 AM)

I am not having a blonde moment - I am dark...lol

Seriously tho - I did understand the post - I was responding though in a way that was in line with the post as an example.

I still beleive that if they are informed on things, they know its not necessarily for them. People have to know and understand the legalities. They have to know whats right and wrong - or else they can make the wrong choice, a dangerous choice.

I paint. I don't hide what I paint. Some people view it as art - others would see it as porn. But the informed, make their own choice.

Peace and Love



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