RE: A new idea? (Full Version)

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EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 11:57:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
this slave goes by the following rule: this slave will not do anything today that will get this slave arrested


LOL you sound just like femcar.



SmilinFSub -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 1:23:20 PM)

Gr8 discussion. Ty

While I admire the candor I see here I doubt many of us would want our kids to be privvy to the discussion / sexual choices we have made. Childhood is about incremental challenges/exposure.


I know a 15-yr-old girl who is tiring of kissing her bf of 6 months. "It's boring," she laments. Well, her very liberal minded Mom's solution? Birth control for protection 'against the inevitable.' My thought? Stop kissing and get a hobby or play a sport.

I don't see any good from exposing kids to alternative lifestyles too early....they face challenges / sexual pressure outside the home. Am I too conservative when I say we should be role models to our youth and carry ourselves with d /s dignity?

Munches and gatherings aside....we r a minority to the Van world. Cave in? NOPE. Be taken seriously? That would be nice.

I doubt women's sufferage or gay-rights would advanced far without some behavioral concessions.

Some things deserve intimate attention and should not be 'advertised.' Each of us is very powerful and can benefit or hinder our surroundings/kids.

I was one of 3 women professionally surrounded by 15 men recently. They were from Asia, Africa, Germany and Iraq and I was the only American. I felt very oppressed and admitted VERY quickly to myself that my God was smiling on me when He allowed me to part of the USA.

Honestly...do what cha gotta do sexually but don't make me explain your needs to my kid / non-Americans. Think about the freedoms Non-Americans don't have b4 u exploit your "rights."





EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 1:41:30 PM)

Except if you ask the general bdsm population, a great majority of them will tell you that they had these fantasies and desires as part of their life as and before they became sexual with someone else.

Suggesting that they should ignore those normal impulses and desires and not be informed so they can make decisions about them only leads to ignorance, frustrations and all the people you see here who finally, in their middle ages, are lucky enough to get online and "discover" who they are- and now having to deal with the guilt of everything society has been telling them is wrong.

Yes we should absolutely carry ourselves with dignity and be good role models- by showing that we are proud of who we are, informing them in a reasonable manner on their level of understanding, encouraging questions, and giving them a safe place to experiment.

Because trust me, they already are experimenting.



SmilinFSub -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 1:53:42 PM)

Always a pleasure Emerald.

Ignore? Nope. SELF-Regulate, u bet.



Oumae -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 2:03:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SmilinFSub







Honestly...do what cha gotta do sexually but don't make me explain your needs to my kid / non-Americans. Think about the freedoms Non-Americans don't have b4 u exploit your "rights."





This is a bit of a sweeping generalisation lol ... we have more freedom here than you have in some states there!

Oumae



mistoferin -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 2:12:42 PM)

Emerald, you and I are very different people and I just want you to know that I don't have an issue with who you are as a person. But I just can't seem to get my head wrapped around your line of thinking on this one.

quote:

Except if you ask the general bdsm population, a great majority of them will tell you that they had these fantasies and desires as part of their life as and before they became sexual with someone else.


I am among the crowd you describe. My earliest memories of fantasies were at the age of 3 or 4. Yes, I experiment alone for a long time before I ever became involved with a partner. By the age of 15 I was actively involved with my first Dominant.

quote:

Suggesting that they should ignore those normal impulses and desires and not be informed so they can make decisions about them only leads to ignorance, frustrations and all the people you see here who finally, in their middle ages, are lucky enough to get online and "discover" who they are- and now having to deal with the guilt of everything society has been telling them is wrong.


I don't think that anyone has suggested that anyone ignore their normal impulses or desires here. Any adult should certainly have the skills to search out information regarding the feelings that drive them. Believe it or not, people don't need the internet to "discover" who and what they are. People have been doing that without the benefit of the internet for centuries. As for societal norms, we all have to make decisions in our lives whether or not we want to live inside or outside of the box. But if we choose to live outside of the box, we should not have expectations that our personal choice is going to change society as a whole. We also have to accept the personal responsibility of our choices.

quote:

Yes we should absolutely carry ourselves with dignity and be good role models- by showing that we are proud of who we are, informing them in a reasonable manner on their level of understanding, encouraging questions, and giving them a safe place to experiment.


I am VERY proud of who I am, but I don't feel the need to flaunt it to everyone who's path I cross. I don't see anything dignified in wearing obvious fetish or bdsm related wear while strolling through the general masses. Informing? Educating? Who are we informing or educating if we alienate them completely at first impression? Also, as a parent I can tell you that it is MY right and MY right alone to decide what it is I want to inform and educate about. A safe place to experiment? Ok...where do you draw the line....sex?....alcohol?...drugs?

quote:

Because trust me, they already are experimenting.


Yes they are...just as they have been doing since the beginning of time. It seems to have been working ok to that way to me.



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 2:16:24 PM)

quote:

I know a 15-yr-old girl who is tiring of kissing her bf of 6 months. "It's boring," she laments. Well, her very liberal minded Mom's solution? Birth control for protection 'against the inevitable.' My thought? Stop kissing and get a hobby or play a sport.


Whilst the example is one I wouldn't agree with - personally I would say that if her bf is that boring a kisser, i'd move onto someone better... contraception isn't a negative response, but one that shows responsibility. Get out the pamphlets, explain how messy it can be, how painful and pressurising pregnancy can be. Explain about STDs - so they are informed.

quote:

I don't see any good from exposing kids to alternative lifestyles too early....they face challenges / sexual pressure outside the home. Am I too conservative when I say we should be role models to our youth and carry ourselves with d /s dignity?


Exposing them to which lifestyles though?
How about poly ?
Single Parents?
Mixed race?
Religious?
Gay?
D/s?


When I was 13, I was walking to an outside annexe of my school with my friend. She was a lovely girl, a good friend to me, but not the most popular girl in school. On our way their, which was a walk, we met 5 boys in my year... most were in my class. They started their taunting like boys do - and we ignored as we could, but my friend told them to just grow up or we would be late. They didn't take kindly to a 'girl' telling them what to do and started chasing us... or rather, chasing my friend, but I stuck with her as best I could. By the time they caught us they were pumped full of adrenalin and too many to stop... and they told me to leave. I wouldn't and one boy forcefully dragged me away. It resulted in my friend being sexually abused. But she had no idea she had been - she really didn't know. I did, because I was informed.

I know of an incident where a boy was distraught from being kissed on the cheek by a girl at a local school - and why? Because he had been informed that kissing caused pregnancy and it meant even worse.

Nobody is anouncing that its our 'right' to walk around showing our nipple rings in public - but there is nothing to be made in hiding that alternative lives exist - and to be tolerant of them, even if its not for us. I wouldn't advocate walking around naked to walmart - or pissing in my pants in the middle of a meal. But to be informed is to be able to say no.

Younger people already feel undervalued and this leads to disrespect for both themself and the people they are supposed to look upto. People treat them like they won't understand, like they don;t already know. When my parents were younger, they didn't have what we have today. There were not the books, the sex ed classes, the media, the freedom that we have as a peoples today. Its already out there - just walk down your street and find it. But the wisest and most responsible thing we can do as the 'been there, seen it, done that' generation is to inform.



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 2:26:18 PM)

quote:

But if we choose to live outside of the box, we should not have expectations that our personal choice is going to change society as a whole. We also have to accept the personal responsibility of our choices.


On Dec 1st 1955 a seamstress called Rosa Parks was traveling home and refused to give up her seat to a white man.
That incident helped begin a wonderful process - freedom.

Peace and Love



mistoferin -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 2:38:44 PM)

quote:

On Dec 1st 1955 a seamstress called Rosa Parks was traveling home and refused to give up her seat to a white man.
That incident helped begin a wonderful process - freedom.


And I am very glad that it did....however, I don't think that Rosa Parks had the expectation that it would...and we shouldn't either. Walking around in fetish wear is not going to get BDSM 101 added to the curriculum of the public school systems anytime soon. Also, Rosa Parks has become a great source of admiration today, but when the incident occurred, she fast became one of the most hated people in this country. She had to live through all of the ensuing fallout. As I said, you can do as you wish in this country...one of the things that makes it such a great place to be. But our actions are not without consequence and if you choose a tougher row to hoe...be prepared to hoe it.



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 3:23:50 PM)

If you read her book... she admits she was fed up with the struggle and behaviour... and had the chance to do something - so she took it. She took it, knowing the responsibilty of her action - and hoping for a successful outcome. Her history is lost to anyone who doesn't wish to learn. She was a fighter for freedom, she worked for organisations and had tried to register to vote.

She knew what was right - freedom. I am not in any way trying to bring wiitwd in line with the blackrights movement - but if you have the conviction that something isn't wrong, isn't illegal, isnt bad - then why not fight for the injustice?

We aren't talking sex here. We are talking about the rights to be able to practice what we want, in private (or public organized functions) without the fear of prosecution, without being labeled insane, abusers or sex offenders. To walk down the street in a beautiful collar without being labelled a freak(no matter how much we like the phrase!) - and to utter the word Master if it so pleased a dominant down the supermarket.

Peace and Love



ScooterTrash -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 5:10:44 PM)

Hard to jump in here after this has went a while..guess picking and chosing what to comment on may be the best move.

As for the public urination..well common sense would hopefully prevail here. Out of context would be an issue for sure. I mean, if it was a bunch of guys hanging around the campfire after a big day hunting, knocking off a keg of beer, well I guess a tad bit of tree watering may be in order. But if this was, as I am taking it, to be some form of public scening, well no, not the right place or the right time. Any form of scening, if it is offensive to possible onlookers, needs to be tame and discrete if it's in public. Now if it's a munch, even if in public, I think the rules can be relaxed some. After all, it is probably apparent that the "group" is likely not the local knitting club.

As for the nothing in excess and the limiting of time on collar me..OMG, if I only had 20 minutes I fear I would never post to anything..the typos would be terrible. I understand the point however, and yes, too much would be too much. By the same token, if a large portion of someone's social life is on-line, I can see that too. It's not like you can go out to the local pub and discuss many of the topics that are discussed on these boards, without having a raised eyebrow from the patrons. To many, they may not have socially acceptable interests outside of work, and this may be their release. If so, I don't have a problem with it, but I would hope they find some other means to occupy their time as well...and I am pretty sure most do. I believe that much of the information you can gather from the posts, is valuable, as we seem to have a broad cross section of BDSM folks here. I doubt anyone would collect so much info from the CM posts to where they became anything but their own unique form of submissive, slave or Dominant. I wouldn't see it as having any more influence than reading books on the subject and has to be much more beneficial than looking at supposed BDSM pics on porn sites.

Some of the other subjects I saw surface however I also am compelled to comment on. The public display of affection is one. I personally do not see anything wrong with that, if done tastefully. Holding hands, kissing or hugging and even an occasional swat on the ass, I do not see where is socially unacceptable. Actually, I see it as contrary to that. I will not hesitate to kiss my wife in public, or hold hands, or show that I care deeply for her in more than a plutonic way. If that is offensive behavour to someone, sorry 'bout ya. My own feeling is that may be where we slip as people in general, nilla or lifestye. To show that is really is OK to care for someone may be a better example to a gangbanger (street thug) than what he(she) has seen displayed at home. So will PDA curb street violence, probably not, but it's a far better behavoural trait than flipping off the driver that just cut you off at the corner. 'nuff said.

As for the fetish wear and the "T" shirts...hmmm, I can see ruffling feathers here, but as long as it's not completely out of line...what's it hurt. Sure, I wouldn't wear the "F" shirt like Mistoferin said into ChuckyCheese (well I doubt I would go there anyway..lol), but I may very well wear a shirt with a BDSM symbol on it at the mall. It's one of my interests..I don't see it as any more offensive than me wearing a Harley shirt (if that offends you, I don't care either). To most in the nilla world, they wouldn't have a clue what the BDSM or Poly symbol is anyway. As for fetish wear, I'm not certain a corset qualifies as offensive. If a collar is stylish, it probably won't be recognized as anything but an accessory...if it has a padlock hanging on it..oh well, let em wonder. I'm not saying that "in your face" type of clothing and accessories are probably right, in all settings, but again, moderation and common sense should be the rule here. If you are the head of the local scout troop, no, leave your lifestyle garb at home, but if it's a gathering of the masses at a fleamarket....what the hell.

Clearly, we do as a group have to be accountable for our actions, but hiding is not the answer. I certainly don't equate our cause with civil rights, but I do give some credence to the similarity of our lifestyle and the misunderstanding of those who have non-traditional sexual preferences. Can we sway public opinion simply by our clothing...not likely, but then again, perhaps we will make someone ask questions. Yes, if it's where children frequent, I do think some restraint needs to be exercised, but to hide, or have to go totally nilla with what we wear, or what we say, I think not. The point I am tring to make is that we should not flaunt our lifestyle choices in front of those who we may offend, but by the same token we should not have to huddle incognito in the darkness. Be yourself, be respectful and be a good example...perhaps someone will notice THAT.




SmilinFSub -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 5:36:30 PM)

Be yourself, be respectful and be a good example...perhaps someone will notice THAT.

These are wise words Scooter , thank you.

I will tell them to the 15 yo girl who is getting to a sexual point in her life bc she has not recognized she has an option. As far as telling her, move on if he's boring...Nope.

I tell kids say no more than you say yes. Be a leader and think.



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 5:41:57 PM)

Very eloquently put and to the point as always ScooterTrash.

Peace and Love



SmilinFSub -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 6:06:49 PM)

What bothers me most about your young friend being assualted and my friend's kid is the fact that both of them had different ends of the information spectrum and they both were powerless.

Your friend thru lack of info and my gf's kid making powerless decisions. Do you really think a 15 yo girl is mature enough to make decisions like this? The brain is physiologically not developed until after 20 and she doesn't need guidance?

Don't you have regrets from your youth? How well rounded is she to be if she is not directioned?

Do you have kids DA?



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 6:14:10 PM)

A 15 yo HAS to be mature enough to make those decisions because ultimately SHE is the one who will make it for herself.

She's dealing with it, in her life, RIGHT NOW. We don't suddenly go from incapable to capable at 20. Teens are semi-adults, they HAVE to begin to make hard choices, life choices, reason through things.

Guidance absolutely. Education absolutely. Masturbation I would hope a LOT.

But it is her choice to make.

What person has no regrets from ANY stage of their life?

I don't have kids but, as I so often get reminded, it wasn't that long ago that I was one.



ravenna -> RE: A new idea? (5/12/2005 10:46:26 PM)

Hi guys! Interesting question, where to draw the line (or lines) in public? As a chronic PDA (public display of affection) offender since at least seventh grade, with the high school rap sheet to prove it, a veteran of countless long wet french kisses at guys' (and girls') lockers after class and the occasional furtive grope in schools' back halls and even in the girls' restrooms, a convicted offender with the suspensions to show for it, i would be the last person on earth to be offended by seeing a passionate kiss (and maybe even a little more) in public. In fact i think it's thrilling, even when officially inappropriate and everyone around me is squirming in their seats. Sorry, i'm no hall monitor, guys, let the kids run wild is my motto. And my owners and i are still forever having waitresses tell us to "get a room, you crazy kids," so i guess i'm still a chronic offender at thirty going on sixteen.

Sex in public? Ahem, i am so not going to throw the first stone there either, having myself had too much sex in too many glass houses (or on the glass house's front lawn, or by the pool, or on the roof, or in the steamed-up SUV parked out front...). Just watch out for the cops (and your girl's dad).

But flaunting BDSM in public? Aha, i finally found a line i hesitate to step over. Partly it's my own personal deep dark closet that i have to deal with; i'm not afraid of letting the world know i'm a very sexual girl, but i do tremble at the thought of telling the world exactly what that sexuality really is. My mama would be shocked, really shocked, and that would just be the beginning. Don't even ask about my dad. (But telling you guys is cool, we're all pretty much on the same side here, right? And we are totally in private here, aren't we? Please tell me we are...)

The other part of my reluctance to cross that line is my need to preserve my owners' freedoms as much as possible. If they became identified as BDSMists their ability to move in some of the circles they have always moved in would be compromised, to say the least. They walk a knife edge sometimes, balancing small compromises in their freedoms, say the freedom to flaunt their ownership of a hot sex slave, in order to preserve their larger freedoms to live the lives they want to live. My master Michelangelo just gave me a better phrase for it: giving up a little license to secure the greater freedom. (Wow, that is better.) So no, dears, i don't wear my BEAT ME WHIP ME FUCK ME SILLY t-shirt to the mall, i am having quite enough trouble coping with the curious glances occasioned by my new nosering, and i can usually pass that off as being just a late-blooming punk rocker, and that's where the line is for me today. (But i'm sure the line will move tomorrow.)



darkinshadows -> RE: A new idea? (5/13/2005 12:57:31 AM)

hey everyone - (just so its not seen to be just aimed at ravenna)

How about my daughters T-shirt? Clearly a fetish Tshirt and shes only 10... but she saw it and said - mummy... I must have that!...

''Money can't by you happiness - but it can buy you FABULOUS new shoes!''

[sm=lol.gif]

Peace and Love!

*disclaimer for the masses who don't understand irony[;)]



Lordandmaster -> RE: A new idea? (5/13/2005 1:06:24 AM)

Heh, good one. We're supposed to insulate them at all costs from fetishes and curse words, but they're free to imbibe as much propaganda as they can chug.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

How about my daughters T-shirt? Clearly a fetish Tshirt and shes only 10... but she saw it and said - mummy... I must have that!...

''Money can't by you happiness - but it can buy you FABULOUS new shoes!''



harmony3709 -> RE: A new idea? (5/13/2005 5:36:50 PM)

The thing that occurred to me as I was reading through this thread was mainly the topic of comparing civil rights with WIITWD, public displays, etc. Civil rights, women's rights, gay rights, etc. are based on a segment of the population that are not being given the same rights as another segment of the population. In other words, they want the same rights that other people have. Whether it be to sit at the front of the bus, or vote or get married or live together without getting arrested or fired from your job. Although I will admit that that's a pretty simplified version.

I don't see WIITWD fitting into that concept. It's not as if men are free to publicly flog their submissives and women domiants are not. This is not a matter of asking for the freedom to do something that other people are already free to do. I think that makes it a bit more complicated than just challenging the general public's comfort level.

Be well,
harmony



Lordandmaster -> RE: A new idea? (5/13/2005 6:08:18 PM)

A lot of "WIITWD" is illegal and would be prosecuted if it didn't take place behind closed doors. (Just look at the new Collarme thread today about what was apparently a voluntary sado-masochistic relationship, but now has become a criminal case.) And you can bet that many of us would be subject to intense discrimination if our sexual choices were public knowledge. That's why so many people are careful about keeping their identity secret. So, yes, although I agree with you that our cause is not as urgent as something like civil rights in the 1960's, that doesn't mean the status quo is right or fair, either.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: harmony3709

The thing that occurred to me as I was reading through this thread was mainly the topic of comparing civil rights with WIITWD, public displays, etc. Civil rights, women's rights, gay rights, etc. are based on a segment of the population that are not being given the same rights as another segment of the population. In other words, they want the same rights that other people have. Whether it be to sit at the front of the bus, or vote or get married or live together without getting arrested or fired from your job. Although I will admit that that's a pretty simplified version.

I don't see WIITWD fitting into that concept. It's not as if men are free to publicly flog their submissives and women domiants are not. This is not a matter of asking for the freedom to do something that other people are already free to do. I think that makes it a bit more complicated than just challenging the general public's comfort level.




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