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physical force - 5/12/2005 6:53:39 AM   
leatherylace


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		How does one control someone without using physical force?
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 6:54:02 AM   
leatherylace


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		When is physical force appropiate?

(in reply to leatherylace)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 6:59:49 AM   
siamsa24


Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline 		I know that I can be controlled by a single look (or in more cases a hand signal or word). I have never had to control or be controlled by physical force.
The only case I can think of where physical force would be needed would be if one person is threatening to cause harm to themeslf or others.

This is only in my case though, others may think differently.

(in reply to leatherylace)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 7:01:46 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Again this is why I refer to authority, not control. Control is within the sub/slave, that's why self-discipline is so important. The dominantly only indirectly controls things.

However, while there's no reason a capable adult would NEED to be controlled by physical force, it can also be really hot and nice TO be controlled by physical force sometimes.


(in reply to siamsa24)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 7:16:42 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

When is physical force appropiate?


Well I guess we would really have to define physical force. Bondage is a physical force used to control the physical movements of another. If both parties agree to participate in bondage, then there is no issue.

If the force is being applied in a consentual manner, then it is thereby appropriate. However, if the force is applied in order to get a person to do something that they are not in consent of....then it is then inappropriate.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to leatherylace)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 7:18:29 AM   
leatherylace


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		What do youmean that "Control is within the sub/slave"?

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 7:26:22 AM   
siamsa24


Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline 		I think she is talking about self-control within the submissive. That they don't need to be controlled by physical force because they can control themself

(in reply to leatherylace)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 7:34:58 AM   
Kindred2Evil


Posts: 227
Joined: 4/16/2005
Status: offline 		Now I'd have to argue with that statement....

"However, while there's no reason a capable adult would NEED to be controlled by physical force"

How would you define need? I have a blood fetish, in my mind I need it...I'm a Sadist, I need to inflict pain in order to get the rush I desire. Is that wrong?
I also think there are definately times when a capable adult needs to be restrained...Have you ever seen a Dom hit top space and blank out all but the skin in front of them? I have. This person ordinarily was a fantastic Dominant, considerate, experienced...but he hit topspace once and just blanked out everything else, he couldn't hear the girls cries for help, her yelling her safeword...He HAD to be restrained physically.

I also believe that a good Dominant can control without physical force...Siamsa put it perfectly..a look, a word, a gesture, that's the mental and emotional connection some have and most want to attain.

Physical restraints can be a good time, if bondage is your thing I say strike out, have fun...it can also be used as punishment, reward or just for kicks. Limits limits limits...that's why discussing this kind of thing with your SO is so important.

Hope that helps :)



_____________________________

Her touch is on the breeze that brushes your cheek, Her voice rides the thunder as the storm breaks, Her tears will clean your heartache when the rains come, Her sun will light the darkest times when you feel alone...She is the Goddess.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 7:50:56 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindred2Evil
How would you define need? I have a blood fetish, in my mind I need it...I'm a Sadist, I need to inflict pain in order to get the rush I desire. Is that wrong?

But you do not NEED the rush to survive or be a functioning adult.

I don't NEED to have a rape scene in order to do what I'm told or to do what needs to be done in life.

I am defining need as such that it is a necessity to behave as a responsible independent adult.

quote:


I also think there are definately times when a capable adult needs to be restrained...Have you ever seen a Dom hit top space and blank out all but the skin in front of them? I have. This person ordinarily was a fantastic Dominant, considerate, experienced...but he hit topspace once and just blanked out everything else, he couldn't hear the girls cries for help, her yelling her safeword...He HAD to be restrained physically.

I would not consider that person a CAPABLE adult at that particular moment, it seems he was pretty incapable at that time.
quote:


I also believe that a good Dominant can control without physical force...Siamsa put it perfectly..a look, a word, a gesture, that's the mental and emotional connection some have and most want to attain.

That's not control- that's direction and authority, at best indirect control.

For the Owner to CONTROL what I wear, he would have to put the clothes directly on me. What he DOES is direct me to what his preferences are, and I control the actual putting on of the clothes.

For the Owner to CONTROL where I go, he would have to lead me around all the time. What he does is DIRECT me where he wants to go, and I control getting there.

Control is nice, I like being directly controlled a lot of the time, but it doesn't happen often.
quote:


Physical restraints can be a good time, if bondage is your thing I say strike out, have fun...it can also be used as punishment, reward or just for kicks. Limits limits limits...that's why discussing this kind of thing with your SO is so important.

Hope that helps :)




Absolutely agree.


< Message edited by EmeraldSlave2 -- 5/12/2005 7:52:47 AM >

(in reply to Kindred2Evil)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 7:59:59 AM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		it's definately a mind control thing with me...but, physical force does keep me in line, i hate to admit....knowing that the last time i did something or other resulted in me getting a canning or slapped (in a "not fun/sexual way") serves as a reminder not to do it again....i know that he doesn't play, when he looks at me i know well that he does take action when need be.


_____________________________

~hugs~
Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to leatherylace)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 9:54:56 AM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		What I have found that works well... and worked exceedingly well when I was a law enforcement agent was using the principle called "escalation of force continuum".

There are various levels of force used in this principle, one superceding the next....
1. On the first level... it is mere presence, or appearance.... a look... body language.

2. The second level is the vocal level whereby you use an authoritative vocalization to get your point across.

3. The third level (not part of law enforcement, but I found it very effective), is that of lowering your voice maintaining voice just above whisper, and projecting a stern image.

4. Soft physical... this can be a light but firm guiding touch

5. Hard Restraint.... i.e. cuffs, use of a hold technique

6. Forceful Physical combat... this is where you are fighting with the other person in attempting to restain the other.

7. Deadly force

I have found these levels to work very well in D/s and in BDSM, as well... with the exclusion of deadly force. Although the actual law enforcement escalation of force continuum is a little varied from Mine, I found this to work well.

Best Regards,

X

(in reply to leatherylace)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 10:47:32 AM   
Alexander


Posts: 159
Joined: 12/10/2004
Status: offline 		Im trying to use changeups more. (by the way nice list senorx. Lots of parralels to think about there)

By changeup I mean that in some ways I think that control, losing it and keeping it is centered on making sure the slave remembers her identity at any given moment. It doesnt matter whether you have one trick or the other, for instance in the escalation of force as outline above, what matters is getting the beasts attention. By focusing their attention your controlling her most important part first. her brain.

So when I feel like I have lost the girls focus i change my demeanor, it sometimes seems like it doesnt matter how I change it as long as it's different. That change is like a signal and because its unexpected it puts the girl on her toes almost immeditely. Thats part of why I think going quieter works so well. It builds in that pause and change.

(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 12:33:48 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

How does one control someone without using physical force?


By having enough experience to exude self confidence, and using that confidence in the dynamic interaction with the other person. Communication, verbal and through body language, establishes and enforces the power dynamic. In most instances if physical force is needed to maintain control the Dominant is not in control of the sub or the relationship. Physical force to maintain or establish control is a symptom of failure.

Not to be confused with physical force used for "correcting" behavior, aka - punishment. But again, the need and the infliction of punishment is also a reflection of failure.

(in reply to leatherylace)
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RE: physical force - 5/12/2005 12:47:45 PM   
darlingjade


Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline 		Control without physical force? A look, tone of voice, words,gestures, rewards and punishments are just a few that spring to mind.

And, as Emerald said, consenting to physical force can be hot. Heck, it doesn't even have to hurt. One of the most erotic and intimate forms of bondage is being restrained by a hand wrapped around both wrists or a that same hand tangled in long hair to hold the head still or to move it or errr. Ok, well I could go on and on here but, personally, a male demonstrating casual strength can be errr...


(in reply to Alexander)
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RE: physical force - 7/18/2005 12:54:23 PM   
jbf31643


Posts: 2
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		one can control another so many ways..without physical force..you must have the desire of one to be controlled..with safe limits and safe words known..and trust..verbal bondage is great..i love to use it as i touch a woman erotically..and tell her if she moves..i stop.. they usually don't move unless i instruct her to.. erotic control is awesome.. hopefully you have had enjoyed the pleasures of it....

(in reply to leatherylace)
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RE: physical force - 7/18/2005 1:13:57 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Personally, I think that if I need to resort to physical force to maintain discipline, there are larger problems at hand.

But as for the original question of "how"....

Take the time to know your partner before you get involved with them on a D/s level.
Establish clear lines of communication.
Ensure that you set a good example to follow
Stay true to your word (If you say you're going to do something...then do it.)
Take the time to train your submissive

I believe that if you set up the right environment, and maintain good self-discipline, everything else just falls into place.

Trust is built through time and consistency, respect is earned through consistent and honorable action. These, (to me anyway), are the pillars for establishing and maintaining control.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to leatherylace)
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RE: physical force - 7/18/2005 1:19:07 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I will choose to answer when is physical force appropriate..........oftimes in my opinion, to grab a handful of hair and use that to control her movements, to grasp her throat..........
to spank or administer lovely pains...........

I don't see why physical force as it was asked has to bring to mind a bad or abusive thing .................

Was that the intent of the questions?

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: physical force - 7/19/2005 10:30:40 AM   
JerryInTampa


Posts: 138
Joined: 2/19/2004
Status: offline 		I'm unclear which "control" you are asking about here?

Are you asking about the use of command voice, coersion, etc to control someone in the "here-and-now" (like a cop would control a suspect)?
Or, are you asking about the use of carrot/stick to control someone in the larger sense (like you control your children)?

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: physical force - 7/19/2005 3:41:24 PM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
SenorX spoke so eloquently. i do realise (but have difficulty understanding) that there are masocists and pain sluts in BDSM. Actually (inasmuch as i a a BDSM virgin and only found D/s in jan '04) there are many things i have difficulty understanding and accepting. i have had to suspend judgment because i know i'm the stranger here.

There may not be a parallel between BDSM and law enforcement's definition's of "physical force"; but couples should take note that generally speaking, no one can consent to an assault. The Violence Against Women's Act has drastically changed the "domestic dispute" landscape and if marks are seen on a woman -- or man -- the other party will almost certainly be arrested.

Generally speaking, the law does not make allowances for sado-masocism. There are some privacy cases but they are not sufficient. Couples involved in these behaviors would be well-served to find and retain a criminal attorney who will respond, 24/7, and to remain silent when questioned by law enforcement apart from saying "i want my lawyer".

i hope this saves S/someone great suffering. Many blessings on A/all.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/2/2005 6:23:14 PM >

_____________________________



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RE: physical force - 7/19/2005 4:33:08 PM   
BlouLady


Posts: 170
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think the person has to want to be controlled.

(in reply to leatherylace)
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