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RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/18/2007 7:29:07 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello stella40. None whatsoever, TG are no better no worse than any other 'human'. I would be pissed at the dishonesty of not being up front at the beginning. But, since you say she is the ideal submissive? Hell no, no difference except she would not be able to sit for awhile for lying to me. RL.

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/19/2007 10:05:24 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

That'd be something I consider I had a right to know well before there was any "close, meaningful D/s relationship".... Frankly, I was lied to by omission!


I agree with Focus. This is not how one starts an honest, open, trusting relationship. It's has nothing to do with her being transsexual; it has everything to do with her dishonesty. I'm not sure how I would handle finding out anything significant about my slave that was withheld from me; so much would depend on the individual, and what was withheld. That being said, I consider it very likely I could no longer stay in that relationship.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

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RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/19/2007 12:21:53 PM   
N4SDChastity


Posts: 327
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline 		As with most, for me it would immediately raise trust issues.  I'm not going to pretend there wouldn't be a certain amount of "eeeewwwwww"-factor, as well.  No, I'm not quite THAT enlightened, yet.  Don't know that I ever will be, either.  But, first, I'd feel betrayed, on a very fundamental level.  I mean, what if I were hoping/planning to add to my offspring count?  yes, that would be a part of any discussions "we" would have had LONG before entering any sort of relationship.  So, there would have been some sort of "active" deception.  Not a semi-defensible "well, it never came up"  And, honestly, believe it or not, asking about ones birth gender IS a part my initial interviews.  So, again, there would have to have been an intent to decieve.  Trust is the bulwark I get to stand behind then, and ignore any issues I may have with TG's

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RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/19/2007 12:36:22 PM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		Obviously not a male dom but I'll take a stab at this one.  I am bi, I could have a male or female slave so there would be zero issue for me on the previous gender.  The big issue would be not revealing such a fundamental part of herself to me in a timely manner.  There are simply some things about a person that should be revealed sooner than later.  I think this would be one of those.  While I have not been in this situation and very well may be able to get past it, it would take some work. A lot of it.  I think my knee jerk reaction would be to end it but I can not say with certainty that I would if faced with the reality of that and everything else was grand.  If there was any hope of it working, though, the salve would have to be working double time to regain my trust.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

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RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/19/2007 12:41:18 PM   
Poppygirl


Posts: 41
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline 		what if the relationship was to go 24/7 and the Dom hoped to breed. years down the line that could really screw things up!

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RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/20/2007 10:47:48 AM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Poppygirl

what if the relationship was to go 24/7 and the Dom hoped to breed. years down the line that could really screw things up!


Hello Poppygirl. Some couples don't mind adopting. RL.

(in reply to Poppygirl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/20/2007 12:56:33 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		Yes.  I want to have children someday.  I don't mind adopting, but I want to experience pregnancy as well.  Artifical means aside, that would be difficult with a TG person.


_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

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RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/20/2007 1:26:07 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		The answers seem to be drifting here.

The question was about someone who decieved/hid such a large part of herself till the Dom was "Hooked", not about wether a TG/TS would be a suitable partner. I would have the same problem with a girl who had her heart set on having a child but entered into a relationship with Me KNOWING I do not wish to have any more (Something I am upfront about during the early stages) assuming she would change My mind. Again the issue would be one of loss of trust.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to junecleaver)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/20/2007 1:56:50 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		Why is this viewed as lied or deceived?

For the transsexual... most often the treatment is most like dealing with a birth defect. Their entire life whether they reveal it to their parents as a child or do not come out about it until much later they are made to feel like this is a hush-hush situation... don't talk about it, you are wrong, there is something wrong with you & so on.

The conditioning to not reveal this about themselves stems back to a very young age.

Did anyone see the Barbara Walters special recently?

The young girl is a girl that we actually met when she was 3 & her parents were first dealing with her transition. She was so withdrawn, so unsure of how to react & the only thing she had any joy in revealing about herself was, look at my Little Mermaid flip flops. (because at this point they weren't allow her to wear too many girl items) Even with the full support of the parents the school system was (at first) not so supportive & then it got to be a don't ask don't tell scenario. Just don't tell others & no one will know she is any different. A few years later, we saw them again at a family group & she was an entirely different child... she was as exuberant & happy as any other child because she was who she already knew herself to be... a little girl & all the joy that being a little girls is. She no longer had to hide her identity.

This subject comes up in our support group all the time... do you tell or do you remain stealth & when you reveal, when should you do so?

It is difficult to think that you will be able to remain stealth because unless the individual has completely removed every contact in their life that has any recollection or connection of their time in life in the other gender role.... it would be impossible to think it would not eventually reveal itself. Now the even more difficult task.... when to tell & t what point. Did you ever consider how many of these people are used as meat because of their transition? That some people view the transsexual as being a number on a list of things to do before I die... they rank right in there somewhere between climbing Mount Everest & doing Asian Twins.

But is anyone seeing this? That because people react to this in a way that says that they are lying or deceiving others about not revealing this... can you see why there is reservation about doing so? It because people are still not seeing this as a situation where a person is resolving a birth defect... it is more like, you did something bad & now you have to tell everyone about it because it was such a bad thing. Because you are different & we don't know you are different you should where a sign & let the WHOLE world know intimate private details about your life because by gosh, I didn't know this about you at hello... you owe me an explaination.

So, the TS should tell this about themselves... my question is when? Should it be at first introduction? Hi, my name is Jane & it use to be John before my sex change.... nice to meet you.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 5/20/2007 2:01:45 PM >

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


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RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/20/2007 2:08:05 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		You aren't entering into a relationship with the entire world, nor are you doing so at first introduction. But when discussion backgrounds it SHOULD be raised. Certainly the issue would naturaly come up, unless they CHOOSE to hide it, in the detail I look at a girls past before taking them on.... When I raise the major health events that I may need to be aware of even if not before then.

I don't give a DAMN as to what reasons they may 'justify' the deception with... I make no secret of My attitude toward lies, someone who feels they NEED to lie is NOT compatable, not with Me. "Thanks but no thanks" works wonderfully well and their 'secret' is protected.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/20/2007 6:35:45 PM   
daniL


Posts: 46
Joined: 4/12/2007
Status: offline 		The 'lie' is not in that they are Transgendered/sexual. It involves not knowing a large piece of their history...this is especially true if your significant other is close with their family. You are lied to about their history, not who they are as a person. Imagine having met the family of your sub [I'm under assumption that a relationship with someone who is 'that' perfect is a full-fledged longterm one, although I know that wouldn't always be the case], and you sit there talking with the family under the assumption that your sub was raised female. That could go far beyond awkward; it can be a painful experience when you find out you were wrong. Now, of course, the weight of the lie is dependent on how long the relationship has been going on. You can hit it off with somone very well but only have been seeing each other for the first time. There are various health/medical reasons why you might want to know that the person you are with for a LTR is genetically male, birth/adoption of children not being the only one.

Also, it would really depend, for me, if I had 'found out' about their trans-status, or I was told by my sub. In one scenario, I would seriously consider ending the relationship right there [with, of course, regards to how long we'd known each other for] and in the other, I would be wondering how to move forward from that point.

(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/21/2007 5:23:25 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		ok... following the logic thus far.

Maybe those who would have "issues" with transsexuals should be upfront about this. Maybe they should come out right away & say, I don't wish to be involved with anyone who was not born in a gender role that was not correct for their mindset. This would offer the TS person the chance to maintain their dignity & not struggle with the pain of "is this person going to accept me for who I am & not condemn me for something that I have absolutely no control over".

It is far easier & less painless to inform people about your hard limits right up front than it is to stumble upon them down the road. I mean, no one has any issue with telling people about a plethora of limits... limits aren't just about kinky bdsm activities. Limits can define race, age, religion... hell I've even heard of people restricting their criteria on things such as eye color. So why not just be upfront & state, no TS's.

As I had said earlier, this subject comes up in the support group that my partner & I host. I tell many of them that they should be upfront about this. Not because I feel they owe the world an explanation but because crimes against the TG community are horrific. Too often TG persons are targeted & killed by people who not accepting of their condition.  But I'm also very respectful of the fact that all of us have the right to privacy. I mean, what if you were born with a tail & the doctor's & parents decided to bob it off, fix the birth defect. Would you then have to tell everyone you get involved with... oh by the way, I was born with a tail.

Children are born with birth defects, some are recognized right away... treated & life goes on. Often the fact that this took place never really comes up in conversation again. Unfortunately being TS is not dealt with in this manner & classifying it is a subject that is still in transition.

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/21/2007 5:42:59 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Just because someone has issues with being lied to doesn't mean they have issues with TG/TS girls. As I said above I would have equal problems with ANYONE who lied about and hid a major issue like that from Me. The issue isn't birth gender, its the lie that is the issue.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/21/2007 6:08:30 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

ok... following the logic thus far.

Maybe those who would have "issues" with transsexuals should be upfront about this. Maybe they should come out right away & say, I don't wish to be involved with anyone who was not born in a gender role that was not correct for their mindset. This would offer the TS person the chance to maintain their dignity & not struggle with the pain of "is this person going to accept me for who I am & not condemn me for something that I have absolutely no control over".
You still don't get it. It's not about the person being a trans-sexual, it's about the person lying about being a trans-sexual while getting deeply involved with someone. Thats the problem.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/21/2007 6:12:02 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

Just because someone has issues with being lied to doesn't mean they have issues with TG/TS girls. As I said above I would have equal problems with ANYONE who lied about and hid a major issue like that from Me. The issue isn't birth gender, its the lie that is the issue.



I am with RavenMuse all the way.  And by dint of this I will also have to disagree rather strongly with the lovely Mme. Passion. While it need not be screamed from the rooftops, it better come out in the give and take of conversation like 'TOOT SWEET'!!!!!! (lol, had to do it).

Undoubtably, there exists a significant enough population that is hinky about transsexuals such that a transexual that is not aware of that must be profoundly retarded, in which case you shouldn't be playing with he or she anyway.

There is no relationship that should be acceptable that inveigling an outcome by serreptitious means and presenting it as fait accompli should be the base of it, that sort of thing is set forth in negotiations.

I am afraid that to say that something that grave is thought of by the transsexual as an accident of birth, and I decided to go in for cosmetic surgery to remove the misquitoe bite is rather less than a pulse away from me saying something on the order of:

Oh, honey of course I knew when I fucked you that I was HIV positive, I have been that way for 15 years, it is like a common cold tho, in my mind, lovey, I haven't any symptoms---------

Beyond that; if the idea is to spring the trap when there is some investment---
isn't the transsexual  putting their heart out there to be shredded---when they can easily get away with a kick in the teeth or less which is much less hurtful I think.

Ron  

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/21/2007 6:22:13 AM   
NakedGirlScout


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I'm not a dom but I turned the question around and thought what if a dom I was interested in made such a revelation to me? Well not only would I feel tricked but since I *do* have issues with TG's as being my sexual partners I would feel... er, even more tricked.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/21/2007 6:27:11 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		I wasn't implying that

I am attempting to make a correlation between the two sides of this.

I attempted to point out why a TS may have reservations about revealing this about themselves... because most often they have gone through many years of psychological & emotional conditioning of covering up this about themselves. Fear of rejection, fear of ridicule, fear of physical harm... this "covering up" results in a very natural method of self defense happening... they retreat & hide their differences.
Can you see why it is a very difficult thing to reveal this information, especially if they have already undergone everything, including surgery, to correct this about themselves?

A TS who transitions has made every attempt to overcome their physical defect & their goal is to look as much like & fit in as best as possible in their target gender. To NOT be recognized... "hey, look, that's a transsexual"... is the goal & quite an accomplishment. If they have done so well with overcoming this... why should they have to tell people, oh by the way... I wasn't born this way, I'm a transsexual. This is where I believe others need to share in this & reveal that they wouldn't wish to get involved with a TS.

The TS is already dealing with major issues of self esteem... it is common to hear them say that they are never women enough... or man enough. They struggle with confidence & they are constantly fearful of who others will react to them if they are "made-out".

I say "issues" to define the difference between those who would have no issue with finding out a partner was TS regardless as to what point in a relationship & those who would.

& this brings us full circle to the OP... how would you react? The only thing that has been revealed is that some people will not respond favorably & some wouldn't let something like this be an issue. My point is why should this "reveal" be placed solely upon the shoulders of the TS? Why shouldn't those who would prefer to not be involved with a TS on an intimate basis be the ones to "reveal" this about themselves.

Ya know what the say... what's good for the goose

There are many things that each one of us consider to be lines of what we find acceptable or unacceptable in a potential partner... my suggestion is that if a person doesn't wish to encounter this with a potential partner, make it known right away. Don't make it the responsibility of others to let it be known. Rejection is not something any of us like & it is impossible to every detail of a person's life prior to some level of bonding taking place.

My partner & I have been together for several years now. We discover things about each other we didn't know & I hope that this remains the case for decades to come. It would be sad to think that there would be anything about either of our PASTS that would effect our present or future.

I feel that we have to be responsible for establishing our limits & making them known to others... & if we don't, then we need to accept some responsibility in the fact that it could come up later.

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/21/2007 6:31:19 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

I knew when I fucked you that I was HIV positive, I have been that way for 15 years, it is like a common cold tho, in my mind, lovey, I haven't any symptoms---------


oh that is absolutely ridiculous

HIV is desease that is life threatening & can be passed on to others through sexual contact

Having sex with a TS isn't

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/21/2007 6:37:47 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

Undoubtably, there exists a significant enough population that is hinky about transsexuals such that a transexual that is not aware of that must be profoundly retarded, in which case you shouldn't be playing with he or she anyway.


& yes.... they do know & thus the reasons why so many battle with this very issue... should I tell, when to tell, who should I tell, etc etc etc

This turmoil that goes on in a the heart & mind of a transsexual is something they are very much dealing with every day of their life. We have one member who met their partner, got married, adopted children.. raised a family & now some 25 yrs later.... wondering, do I tell my children that I am TS?

Everyone who is reacting to this is reacting in a way that TG people have to live with every day of their lives... they are the outsider & they have to exist in a manner that doesn't offend the rest of the world.

Think about that for a bit before you react with only yourself in mind.

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Discovering the truth about your female sub. - 5/21/2007 7:01:47 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		This is simply one of those topics where my passion will surface.

Please know that I am not jumping down on anyone here & I respect your contributions to the thread.

I just hope that people can come to understand & respect transsexuals... I can't say respect their rights because sadly, transsexuals are not recognized as having any rights in many regards.

Just this month my partner was part of getting a new law on the books that prevents discrimination against gender identity & gender expression... it is now not possible to use this about them as a means to terminate their employment, refuse housing & several other matters. Many of the neighboring cities are picking this up & making it a policy in their area.

Don't you see the how sad all of this is... that because of this thing that they have absolutely no control on it being a very real part of their life, they have to go out & seek protection for the very same rights & privileges that everyone just simply have with no questions?

Raven, Ron... I have a great deal of respect for you both & I don't want either of you to feel that I don't. I just have a different idea of how this matter could be handled & feel like the discovery of this particular thing should not fall completely on the shoulder of one.

as a side note:
I am of the mind that the only way this could be viewed as lying or deceiving is if you have asked all the questions, made your limits/tolerances known & they proceed to move forward knowing full well that you would have issues with an intimate relationship with a TS... well yes, then they are lying, deceitful people & kicking them to the curb can be completely understood.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 5/21/2007 7:05:09 AM >

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MstrssPassion


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Profile   Post #: 40
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