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...On going pro - 5/16/2007 11:14:57 PM

Posts: 84
Joined: 10/23/2005
Status: offline

Okay, this one is for all of you dommes who are/have been pro dommes.

I'm a college student, looking to supplement my meager studently earnings, and going pro is seeming like an increasingly appealing option. There are zero pro dommes in my city, rents are reasonable for opening a studio, and I'm not going to find a more interesting job in the classifieds. I've had some sindustry experience, and really enjoyed all I learned, but I've drooled (droooooooooooled!) over the idea of being a prodomme for five years.

What I want to know is how you got started. From a business perspective, from a lifestyle perspective, cautionary tales, etc. Anything would be great!

Aaaaaaaand, a disclaimer, because I can just envision this getting unfun: I'm not looking to be flamed on here for all that I do not know yet. I realize I'm young, I realize that I have more to learn. I'm a workshop kinda woman, I'm willing to learn, and I read a lot, but nothing beats outright advice from those who have gone before.

RE: ...On going pro - 5/16/2007 11:41:05 PM

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

I know I'm not a domme, but I have enough experience working with them and for them to at least offer this as advice: Make sure you know the local government of your location really well as there are some overzealous police forces and/or community leaders that see anything that you may be doing, no matter how legal it is, as illegal activity. Sometimes, there is a good reason for why there are no other pro dommes working in a particular area. Second, be very suspicious of local submissives that offer to "help" you in your business (such as business affairs, legal services, or web page design); that doesn't mean you can't use their help, but always be really careful around who you are letting into your affairs. As a famous professional dominant once told me, "it's a lot cheaper to pay for a service than get it for free from someone doing you a favor."

Your age really isn't that much of a problem. It may even serve as an advantage for you. Just keep in mind that submissives are really good at figuring out when a professional is winging it because she doesn't know better or is just going through the motions.

Anyway, that's all. Good luck to you.

_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me

http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to empresschaos)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/16/2007 11:46:29 PM

Posts: 84
Joined: 10/23/2005
Status: offline

Thanks! Actually, my complete and total inability to "go through the motions" is part of what's led me here. If I'm not passionate about my work, I can't make myself do it. I will definitely be researching any legal issues I may face, but I'm absolutely looking to stay on the legal side of things.

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 12:08:13 AM

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

I have some ideas to bring from my hospitality training.

Keep an excellent tab on costs from the get go. Remember that seemingly cheap things over time or many trials run very expensive. You'll start slow, having fewer "customers" than you want. Some will be long term, others will be one-shot deals. Many will not have proper training, and many are going looking for a fun cum fest, which you might have to work out before hand. (That, sadly, was not part of my hospitality training.)

Avoid lawsuits. Be sure not to screw up with sanitation and allergies. (Latex, primarily)

How is your venture capital? Do you already have a plethora of toys and such? How much money do you have to invest (rhetorical, you don't have you/shouldn't make that public)? Do you plan to have some of the common dungeon furnishings? Certain items are very expensive.

I worry for your safety. There are many dangerous men out there. Maybe you have a big burly friend who can wait in a room and watch or something. To ensure you have safety at the touch of a button. I'd hate to see something bad happen to a Domme.

You could do a test. Place an ad and see how many people respond. Personally, I'd have a clause where you meet in a coffee house first. (Don't treat them like a TOTAL slave there, just submissive in nature.) A $200 ad could save you thousands if there is no market.

Do you mind married men? If so, that should be mentioned in the ad/interview. Do you ever provide orgasms? That should also be mentioned. For your own safety, you chould demend herpes/HIV paperwork, if you engage in fluid transfer.

< Message edited by HeavansKeeper -- 5/17/2007 12:13:55 AM >

(in reply to empresschaos)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 12:28:56 AM

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

A friend and I are about to open in our town.

Dont pay for any work to your premises - advertise for submissive craftsmen and tradespeople (they can also knock equipment up) and pay them in kind. There's a site/mail group called slave workforce thats more active in the US than here that you could try.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 2:24:20 AM

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

Advertising to begin with is your key thing for getting it right and is going to be one cost you have to be prepared to splash out on. Sell yourself well. Look at other Mistresses websites and adverts and collect ideas. Decide what you are selling and make it clear what your not. Saying things like ‘Do not offend me by asking for sex’ are always a good idea.

Decide on your costs and stick to them.

Pick an area to specialize in and really promote that side of your service. Mistresses that do a little of everything make a lot less money than a Mistress that specializes in something.

Choose carefully where you are going to set up your dungeon. Try to be near a train, station, good bus route and not in a run down area.

Think about how you can sound proof your dungeon from nosey neighbours. Bare walls and wooden floors are a nightmare for travelling noise so use lots of fabrics and thick drapes. Opera music (grrr I hate it) is the best music on earth for drowning out slaps and yelps!

Once you have your apartment ready for clients (don’t get disillusioned if it’s a slow start) get yourself a secretary. Someone who is local and into this, t-girls make good secretaries. Tell them the hours you need them and that it is on a commission basis plus tips only.
This may sound extravagant but believe me, a secretary is also a body guard. Never do this on your own, its far too dangerous.

Make sure you invest in equipment that is cleanable. Porous products are a nightmare and a total waste of money.

You could set up with another Mistress but you have to be careful. The laws in the UK for example, allow a Mistress to work on her own but if there is more than one Mistress on the premises it becomes a brothel and as so is illegal.

Be prepared for no shows. It’s a common problem for Mistresses and until you have built up a regular client base you will get a lot of time wasters. See if you can do a bit of work as a secretary for a pro Mistress in your area. This will teach you valuable information into how to be on the phone and this in turn can win or lose you a client and you will quickly learn to recognize the genuine clients from the time wasters.

At first be prepared to work long hours. Think of it like you would any other business. You will only get out of it what you put into it.

Good luck

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 2:43:39 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: empresschaos

Thanks! Actually, my complete and total inability to "go through the motions" is part of what's led me here. If I'm not passionate about my work, I can't make myself do it. I will definitely be researching any legal issues I may face, but I'm absolutely looking to stay on the legal side of things.

You may have a problem already if you don't fundamentally understand that prodomming often is equivalent to prostitution under many laws. I'm not trying to start a debate about whether it is or not, it's just that legally - that's where it often falls under.

Your first stop needs to be to see a local lawyer who is very familiar with local laws pertaining to adult oriented businesses. Next stop is to hire an accountant.

One of the primary reasons businesses fail is that they lack adequate start up funds, and the person starting them expects to be making a profit from the day they open. This is pretty much never the case - it takes time to build clientele. You need to have enough of funds in the bank to get you through the first six months or so of rent, untilities, etc, PLUS setting up - toys, dungeon equipment, wardrobe for yourself.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 5/17/2007 2:44:53 AM >

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to empresschaos)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 3:21:58 AM

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

We know of several pro-dommes who dont get any trouble from the police/authorities. They set up and pay tax, describing themselves as everything from mobile hairdressers to book keepers. We're thinking "lifestyle consultants" or some sort of therapist description for our operation. Obviously this is in the UK rather than the US. From what we understand, as long as there are no sexual services being provided, tax is paid on earnings and neighbours dont complain, its not a big issue for the police et al here.

The presence of a second person though, is important; whatever a client wants, we will both be on the premises and there will be panic buttons and so on installed. Neither of us could prevent a guy who got nasty from getting nastier, but both of us together could - we hope! The Bosnian nightsticks in the cupboard should come in handy in any case for such a situation..... the panic button is vital, because the room we have set up is soundproofed pretty much.

Charges are one area where I think we need guidance though. We know of some who charge very little and some who charge highly. What is appropriate for say, an hour?

On the whole appointment and charging thing, and bearing in mind possible no shows, we also had the idea of getting a deposit (money, I mean, LOL!) at booking. We'd meet with potential clients to check them out off the premises (since this is in one of our homes and we dont want all and sundry knowing where it is), and if they want an appointment, get a deposit - say 25% up front, non refundable if they dont turn up. Does anyone else do this or know of someone who does this?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 4:13:02 AM

Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Ellen
I screen all of my potential clients with an off site interview. I charge $100 for the interview, and when they book their first sessio half of that goes towards the session fee.
Getting a deposit up front reads like a scam to a lot of customers, so you might want to reconsider that.

I was lucky when I was getting started to have a message board with a lot of professionals on it that gave me advice. I recommend finding someplace like MaxFisch or other pro-domme boards and see if there is a dominas only area where you can get advice about getting set up, picking your fee schedule, etc.

~E

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 4:40:39 AM

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

We know of several pro-dommes who dont get any trouble from the police/authorities. They set up and pay tax, describing themselves as everything from mobile hairdressers to book keepers. We're thinking "lifestyle consultants" or some sort of therapist description for our operation. Obviously this is in the UK rather than the US. From what we understand, as long as there are no sexual services being provided, tax is paid on earnings and neighbours dont complain, its not a big issue for the police et al here.

The presence of a second person though, is important; whatever a client wants, we will both be on the premises and there will be panic buttons and so on installed. Neither of us could prevent a guy who got nasty from getting nastier, but both of us together could - we hope! The Bosnian nightsticks in the cupboard should come in handy in any case for such a situation..... the panic button is vital, because the room we have set up is soundproofed pretty much.

Charges are one area where I think we need guidance though. We know of some who charge very little and some who charge highly. What is appropriate for say, an hour?

On the whole appointment and charging thing, and bearing in mind possible no shows, we also had the idea of getting a deposit (money, I mean, LOL!) at booking. We'd meet with potential clients to check them out off the premises (since this is in one of our homes and we dont want all and sundry knowing where it is), and if they want an appointment, get a deposit - say 25% up front, non refundable if they dont turn up. Does anyone else do this or know of someone who does this?

E

It very much depends on what you are offering and how well equipped your dungeon is. As well as that your location. London Mistresses are charging a lot more than Mistresses that live further north our out in the sticks and when setting prices you need to take that into consideration.

I have a couple of friends in the midlands that do basic domination and charge between £100 to £150 an hour. I would of said somewhere in between the two but more if you are specializing.
The problem with taking money in advance is that most clients (to remain discreet) need to pay cash. They are not in a position to do a bank transaction. Saying that I do know of Mistresses that take deposits, though how they get on with that I really don’t know.
If you do want some advice then please drop me a note. Im more than happy to have a chat on the phone if you want.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 4:43:54 AM

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

I almost forgot!

FORM AN LLC! Do not be a sole proprietor. A sole proprietor is personally liable to customers where-as an LLC (Limited Liability Company) is liable to the customers, but not the employees and members of the LLC. That is a general rule, and depending on the state, laws can be different concerning what makes the owner(s) of said LLC liable. In Florida, it's gross negligence.

I used http://www.incorporatefast.com/. (I don't get anything from you using them and you don't get anything for mentioning me.) They were fast, and cheap. I shopped around quite a bit for a good, honest, cheap place. A lawyer can charge you five grand with a straight face for an LLC. After all the taxes, subtle fees, and heavily suggested options, you should be out of there for under $400 (I live in Florida, cheap processing fee). This is basically an insurance. If you never get sued and never go bankrupt, the money and time (takes at least two weeks) will never shine. If you do go bankrupt, this will protect your credit. If you do get sued, this will protect your home, car, and all your other stuff.

Please consider this heavily, it might save your ass one day.

Edit: I did have to fax and call them a few times to iron out the tax-ID issue, but it's really not bad. Customer service was better than the people who would "never get faxes." You get what you pay for, I still think it was worth it.

You'll also need a bank account that's not related to you. Never do personal shopping from the business account, it could void the financial protection of the LLC.

< Message edited by HeavansKeeper -- 5/17/2007 4:46:15 AM >

(in reply to Elorin)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 4:52:23 AM

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

I have a couple of friends in the midlands that do basic domination and charge between £100 to £150 an hour.

100 GBP = 197.661USD
150 GBP = 296.466 USD

As of Thursday, May 17.

Compliments of http://www.xe.com/ucc/.

(in reply to Copulo)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 4:58:06 AM

asubmissiveheart

Posts: 462
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline

Good luck, let us know how this works out for you.

(in reply to empresschaos)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 5:02:20 AM

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

I have a couple of friends in the midlands that do basic domination and charge between £100 to £150 an hour.

100 GBP = 197.661USD
150 GBP = 296.466 USD

As of Thursday, May 17.

Compliments of http://www.xe.com/ucc/.

Ty but Lady Ellen is English. Not sure what Americans charge.

< Message edited by Copulo -- 5/17/2007 5:03:44 AM >

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 2:14:34 PM

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

I was pro for five years in the 90's.

I never spent a single dime on advertising and I had more business than I wanted!

I have a list of sites that will advertise you for free. I'll be glad to send them.
You will need a basic webpage (I used 50megs.com for free and built it Myself)
You will need dungeon space. Don't go fancy upscale at first... Try moderate, but clean and in a decent location. Remember that neighbors may hear sounds, so try not to use an apartment or comething where noise will be a problem. A single dungeon will work fine at first, You can have a black room that "converts" by having one wall with track lighting above and then hang several long curtain tracks with different colored/textured draperies. Simply pull out the soft pink ones and place a vanity on rollers when doing sissification, Pull out the heavy brocade or cabbage rose floral for a victorian scene, etc... Have a closet for yourself for costuming. Have a second closet for costuming for them (sissies orgasm when they are allowed to play in a closet full of lingerie!) You'll want to have a place for aftercare (NOT a bed, it sends the wrong message) I used a large futon mattress on the floor piled with pillows and blanket throws. Have energy snacks and a variety of sports drinks.

The main thing I would suggest is: know yourself. What scenes and activities do you know well and feel comfortable doing? Find a specialty or two if you can. Interview clients and weed out the ones who will ask things of you that you cannot give. Do NOT feel afraid to turn someone away. Be nice, but firm, and even suggest someone else in a neighboring town if you like. If you feel uncomfortable for ANY reason, turn them down.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to empresschaos)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 3:17:25 PM

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

You can get away with advertising for free but at the end of the day your in the UK like me and I can tell you for nothing that you will pick up more clients from your local free adds (which unfortunately you do have to pay for) than any amount of Mistress sites.
You do need your own website really. Lots of people will call and ask for your website address. If your good with a computer then you can set your own up. Often willing subs will do it for a session or two but I actually found it easier in the end to be done and just pay to get a decent website up. You may want to at a later date add videos. You can earn decent money from hits on your site or even a little online shopping list.

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 3:44:53 PM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Lady Ellen i saw one site online and the charges were 75% of full price, if paid in advance. This seemed a good idea to me, although i would worry about scammers.

As for the right price, about a fiver sounds okay to me...

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 5/17/2007 3:45:29 PM >

(in reply to Copulo)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/17/2007 10:09:21 PM

Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: empresschaos

Okay, this one is for all of you dommes who are/have been pro dommes.

I'm a college student, looking to supplement my meager studently earnings, and going pro is seeming like an increasingly appealing option. There are zero pro dommes in my city, rents are reasonable for opening a studio, and I'm not going to find a more interesting job in the classifieds. I've had some sindustry experience, and really enjoyed all I learned, but I've drooled (droooooooooooled!) over the idea of being a prodomme for five years.

What I want to know is how you got started. From a business perspective, from a lifestyle perspective, cautionary tales, etc. Anything would be great!

Aaaaaaaand, a disclaimer, because I can just envision this getting unfun: I'm not looking to be flamed on here for all that I do not know yet. I realize I'm young, I realize that I have more to learn. I'm a workshop kinda woman, I'm willing to learn, and I read a lot, but nothing beats outright advice from those who have gone before.

It's outrageous that you have to be worried about being moralized by narrow-minded, self-righteous, grouchy people on an "alternative" lifestyle website. You ask an honest question and have every right to receive mature, respectful replies...

One thing I should tell you is to stay true to yourself and do only things that you yourself would have a good time with. For examples, if you love to humiliate men and have a good laugh at their expense, choose only those types of men into physical humiliation. If you are not into sadistic type of activities, do not agree to use a man in a session for those purposes. Stick to doing things that you will have fun with, unless of course you have no problem being an open-door pro who top services submissives for their enjoyment only. Entirely up to you but I think you should choose wisely those with whom you know you would have a lot of fun with. ;P

< Message edited by MistressDolly -- 5/17/2007 10:11:13 PM >

_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e

(in reply to empresschaos)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/18/2007 1:35:11 AM

Posts: 27
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

To add to what Copulo said, free help is often best a source of advice, but even then, its probably best to get a free second opinion because free help, particularly from an eager submissive, can have a tendency to tell you what you want to hear and/or what might be most likely to earn a free lunch :)

(in reply to MistressDolly)

RE: ...On going pro - 5/18/2007 1:54:58 AM

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: plaything

To add to what Copulo said, free help is often best a source of advice, but even then, its probably best to get a free second opinion because free help, particularly from an eager submissive, can have a tendency to tell you what you want to hear and/or what might be most likely to earn a free lunch :)

And its ok earning a free lunch to a degree but when you suddenly have all these people that you have to pay back in kind, its often not as clean cut as one would like it to be. People who get paid in kind often don’t take the work as seriously as when they are getting paid. They are not as reliable and they need molly codling to an extent. Saying that I have had some extremely good hard workers that were only ever paid in kind but I have also had some frustrating workers that have ended up costing me more money than it would of originally cost me just to pay for a professional to come in, in the first place.
Sometimes its just easier to pay the cash and be done. An example of this is a Mistress I know that has her website designed and run by a sub male. Now it’s a fantastic website with all the thrills and one that she has been able to earn a good income from because of the huge amount of hits it gets. In return for the website she dominates the designer but the designer throws silly strops now and again and recently whilst throwing one of his strops he pulled the whole site on her, causing her endless grief and loss of business. Would he of done this if it had been a cash business deal? Somehow I doubt it.

(in reply to plaything)

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