RE: The Greatest Patriots?

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TheHeretic -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 6:09:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Beheaded journalist, right? Should they have shown that on U.S. television? Nick Berg was the dumb-ass 22 year old kid who (like many I'm talking about here) thought that the freedoms and civilized culture he grew up in were simply the norm of the world, and went looking to be an entrepeneur in Bagdad. You misspelled "Spy"... How are spies treated? You want the video too, so you can see for yourself? It's trip, dood.

TheHeretic -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 6:19:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy But I think we put out the message you fuck with us and your ass is grass. Instead of a message like, oh I dunno, the American people are divided and lacking the will to do anything hard or make sacrifices? That we'll run away if you make things rough enough?

Sinergy -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 6:30:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy But I think we put out the message you fuck with us and your ass is grass. Instead of a message like, oh I dunno, the American people are divided and lacking the will to do anything hard or make sacrifices? That we'll run away if you make things rough enough? Actually, it is two messages. a) We will fuck with your country if the idiotocracy that a bunch of numskulls put in office think they can get away with it. b) We will cut and run if you make things rough enough. I agree with your analysis of point b). I simply dont think that staying there will ever work, unless we conduct our own genocide of the Iraqi people. Some of us learned this lesson in or studying the Vietnam War. Others of us got our father to get us into a cushy stateside job so we would never have to go in country, etc., and missed out on the opportunity to learn that war is bad. I have issues with point a), which comprises the vast number of my arguments on this whole issue. Despite all the jingoistic propaganda that pro-war types spew, none of them seem to consider that we have no business being there in the first place. The Soviet Union learned this lesson in Afghanistan. It was one of the primary reasons the United States won the Cold War; the USSR went bankrupt by their idiotic military spending in Afghanistan and on nukes. The United States is locked and loaded to learn the same lesson in Iraq. Meanwhile, China is feverishly building their military in case the US elects somebody who wants to invade for their Szechuan Chicken. Sinergy edited to remove a we.

farglebargle -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 6:42:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy But I think we put out the message you fuck with us and your ass is grass. Instead of a message like, oh I dunno, the American people are divided and lacking the will to do anything hard or make sacrifices? That we'll run away if you make things rough enough? As a practical matter, how does the US recover from Bush's appeasement of Bin Ladin by removing the bases from his homeland, Saudi Arabia? (1) Now that the US has given into terrorist demands, how to we unring that bell? Footnote 1: which was pretty much the reason he pulled the 9/11 job.

Sinergy -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 6:47:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy But I think we put out the message you fuck with us and your ass is grass. What exactly did Saddam do to fuck with us? Sinergy Edited to add "take your time answering."

selfbnd411 -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 7:17:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic You want the video too, so you can see for yourself? It's trip, dood. We would do well to remember that it hasn't been so very long since we Americans relished in such barbarism. Follow the link for a lovely picture of the boy's charred and dismembered body, dangling from a post and surrounded by yokels smiling proudly for the camera: "A postcard showing the burned body of Jesse Washington, Waco, Texas, 1916. Washington, a 17-year-old mentally handicapped farmhand who had confessed to raping and killing a white woman, was castrated, mutilated, and burned alive by a cheering mob including mayor and the chief of police. An observer wrote that "Washington was beaten with shovels and bricks... [he] was castrated, and his ears were cut off. A tree supported the iron chain that lifted him above the fire... Wailing, the boy attempted to climb up the skillet hot chain. For this, the men cut off his fingers." This image is from a postcard, which said on the back, "This is the barbeque we had last night. My picture is to the left with a cross over it. Your son, Joe." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

TheHeretic -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 7:47:54 PM)
Are you actually sticking with "our past atrocities negate their culture of atrocity," as an argument, 411? Methinks you protest too much out of denial (that isn't a river in Egypt, btw.) At least you said "we" Americans. That's a step towards recovery.

Sinergy -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 7:50:56 PM)
"We cannot elect men afraid of premature evacuation." Jane Fonda

dcnovice -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 7:55:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Beheaded journalist, right? Should they have shown that on U.S. television? That was Danny Pearleman. Nick Berg was the dumb-ass 22 year old kid who (like many I'm talking about here) thought that the freedoms and civilized culture he grew up in were simply the norm of the world, and went looking to be an entrepeneur in Bagdad. If you haven't ever seen one of these, send me an addy on the other side and I'll e-mail it to you. Educational, but not fun. Thanks for the offer, Rich, but I don't think my stomach is strong enough to watching a beheading. I'm honestly not sure, were I a news director, if I'd air something like that. I gather you would?

TheHeretic -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 8:03:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice I'm honestly not sure, were I a news director, if I'd air something like that. I gather you would? Not without a hell of a warning to the audience and probably only on the late news. My opinion on this one was colored by a local broadcast when the story was fresh when they announced they weren't going to show this disturbing video, but 'coming up, more photos surface of GI's abusing prisoners at Abu Graib.' No shit. The media is certainly willing to perpetuate the ignorance. (It isn't something I load up and watch when the forums get slow, but I needed it for a film project and haven't erased it off the 'puter.)

dcnovice -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 8:06:10 PM)
quote: The media is certainly willing to perpetuate the ignorance. My guess is that they're so worried about tarring all Muslims as evil that they may not confront squarely enough some of the truly evil things that happen.

TheHeretic -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 8:12:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: The media is certainly willing to perpetuate the ignorance. My guess is that they're so worried about tarring all Muslims as evil that they may not confront squarely enough some of the truly evil things that happen. That's more gentle and generous than my take. I think they are ignoring facts that don't fit their 'bash Bush and everything he does' paradigm. It will be easy enough to see if the coverage changes if a Democrat winds up as CIC in '09.

dcnovice -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 8:14:36 PM)
Maybe, although I remember the press being pretty damn tough on Carter and Clinton too.

Sinergy -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 8:16:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Maybe, although I remember the press being pretty damn tough on Carter and Clinton too. The amusing part was when the press trashed Carter and Clinton, and the jingoistic right wingers ranted endlessly about the "liberal media not doing it's job." Sinergy

farglebargle -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 8:22:28 PM)
PLEASE! All you "anti-Bush-Bashers", get back to me when Bush is perp-walked by Federal Marshals for his crimes, and THEN we can talk about being harsh with the felon. How can anyone complain they're being MEAN to the guy, when he's allowed to walk around free?

subfever -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 9:41:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dogthing quote: The directive loosely defines "catastrophic emergency" as "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions." If the Republicans look likely to lose the next election, all it takes is for one administration employee charged with hiring mercenaries for Iraq to to flip through his address book and make a few calls and outlay a couple of hundred grand, and a team of his ex-employees will blow up a bridge or a power station or something (he can leave all the details to them). Then Bush and his entourage get to stay in power until Bush thinks that "threat" is over. Which may be never. I think the neocon organisations are now a major threat to the US' national security. They have access to money, and mercenaries, and they may be getting desperate. It only takes one. http://www.collarchat.com/m_1042807/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#1043252

TheHeretic -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 10:08:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Maybe, although I remember the press being pretty damn tough on Carter and Clinton too. That's the job of the press, DC. If you have access to do a lexus/nexus search though, look at the differences in the number od stories on an issue like homelessness depending on the administration. Doesn't apply so much to Carter (they were still "bums" then), but you'd swear Clinton solved the problem the day he took office. I'm just giving this example because it's pretty well documented, but it's an easy trend to spot. Based on the current political rhetoric, I hope you don't get a chance to witness the phenomenon until '12 at least [;)]

Real0ne -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/28/2007 10:33:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Beheaded journalist, right? Should they have shown that on U.S. television? That was Danny Pearleman. Nick Berg was the dumb-ass 22 year old kid who (like many I'm talking about here) thought that the freedoms and civilized culture he grew up in were simply the norm of the world, and went looking to be an entrepeneur in Bagdad. If you haven't ever seen one of these, send me an addy on the other side and I'll e-mail it to you. Educational, but not fun. Thanks for the offer, Rich, but I don't think my stomach is strong enough to watching a beheading. I'm honestly not sure, were I a news director, if I'd air something like that. I gather you would? you mean that one of the russian wacking the afghan? i got that on e somewhere

TheHeretic -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/29/2007 7:01:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne you mean that one of the russian wacking the afghan? i got that on e somewhere Never heard of that one, Real, but wouldn't be suprised to hear it happened. As I understand it, the Afghan Mujahadeen would sometimes send pics and even videotape of the executions to the family of their captives. That would tend to ratchet up the level of violence on the recieving end, dontcha think?

SimplyMichael -> RE: The Greatest Patriots? (5/29/2007 7:52:43 AM)
Rich, If someone invaded America and the only way you had to strike back was through terror tactics, I assume then that unlike people like myself, you would do nothing to free us?

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