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RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/12/2007 5:54:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Off topic with regard to the burn unit:
There was a little girl, a civilian who was badly burned in Iraq and the docs had given up on her. We flew her up here for treatment. I can't remember who fronted the cash, but it was either the hospital or one of the local well-to-do guys, I think. Got a fair bit of coverage in the local media.

I think I still have that picture of her father somewhere when they told him that not only would she live (that had been iffy at first), but she'd make a full recovery, hopefully without any scarring.

I've yet to see relief, happiness and gratitude expressed as profoundly and sincerely as that face.

No words or deeds could top that expression.

To me, that picture is as unforgettable as the one of Sharbat Gula.

Are you talking about the little girl who caught on fire from a lantern and her face became fused with her chest?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/12/2007 6:36:46 PM

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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Semantic drift, "embrace, extend and extinguish" and other trends in the BDSM scene only cause confusion and impede communication.

Except they don't. At least not for me and just about everyone I've ever hung around. We were able to have a lot of great times without ever having a definitions discussion. And the few times we did because we're dorks, it was all just good intellectual debate that no one took seriously.

Maybe I've just been really lucky so I don't get where people always talk about how confusing and bad it is??? In my years off and online, it hasn't been a problem for me once.

Miscommunication? Sure. Due to definitions quibbles? Nope.

quote:

And that happens a lot around here, because people tend to think others use a word in the same way as they themselves do

THAT is a problem, but that's a problem of someone being self centered and generalizing- NOT with word definitions.
Yes, Yes, Yes LA! You said it all and said it well....thank you.......luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/12/2007 6:36:57 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Are you talking about the little girl who caught on fire from a lantern and her face became fused with her chest?

My recollection was a bit vague, so I went back and looked it up. Have edited the post to reflect what I found.

It was a 9 year old girl who suffered 3rd degree burns, including chest and head, during a fire that resulted from an accident with a parrafin oven. Face fused with the chest is probably not accurate. The doctors over there had concluded that she would not live without specialist treatment elsewhere.

A doctor from this hospital spotted her, checked in with the burn unit, was told they could deal with it if he could arrange transportation, and asked the visiting foreign minister, who said they would take her on the charter plane back, along with her father and an army medic, as I recall. Fortunately, they got her stabilized for transportation.

The family wished to return to Afghanistan when Neroz (sp?) had gotten to the point where the rest of the recovery could be handled locally in their own country, and local schools raised funds for some amenities for them to bring back in order to assist them in rebuilding their lives. The Red Cross also started some work on a burn unit down there afterwards.

I couldn't find the picture I was thinking about, unfortunately, but this one conveys a little of the afterglow much later on.

Of course, I'm well aware of all the bits about where to spend the money and effort, and so forth. But sometimes, someone will tug especially hard at your heart, and you get more involved. That's what happened here. Everything was a volunteer effort that went outside the regular foreign aid channels. Effectively, someone saw another human suffering, was in a position to do so, and did so. I'm not about to fault them for that.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/12/2007 6:40:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: TigerNINTails
But not one person understood, or even identified that most of the perception seems to be in the structure of the sentence, leaving a rather distasteful "implication" where there most likely isn't one.

I think it's because the setence was spoken- and then transcribed to us. Anyone who suggests that they can trust a new poster to grammatically and tonally interpret a spoken statement in such a way that other posters can reasonably and accurately base interpretations of meaning on the structure of the sentence itself is silly.

And LA, as with most of your posts (regardless of the nitwits that attempt to pick them apart), I'd be inclined to agree with that, even amongst the evidence that that is precisely what some have done. Infered an implied tone whether a new poster is capable of inferring that accurately or not.

There is also more to my explanation in my previous post I was trying to edit in, when collarme went down around 4 - 6 am this morning, and I just went to sleep, tired of waiting for it. And that bit follows the following quote in my previous post now...

quote:

It's her reference also to "but i'm also his love..." This "but" right here, indicates that what comes next is either the truth of the matter and all that came before it is a lie, or...

It indicates that there is a negative connotation to what follows. The word "but" is a negative in our language. This is where the confusion starts, that period is where it compounds.

OR that she's adding new information to the whole picture which in some levels might seem contradictory, but are actually not.

Absolutely. However, it's not that I was saying they were contradictory, simply "negative in nature". Negativity and contradiction shouldn't be confused. They aren't the same thing.

Someone can say something in a negative tone and not be contradictory, and someone can say something else in a positive tone that is contradictory. So as you can tell, I'm sure LA, they aren't inter-related.

But when you read my edit, it's not just the word "but" that I was targeting in my reading of it. It's also the whole structure of the sentence, and IF (and I agree, it's a might big IF) the OP is accurate in her quote, the structure of what's said is very important to delineating the actual meaning of the statement.

For example, "i may be his slave..." (Well... Is she or isn't she? There really is no "may be" in these situations. You wither are or you aren't.) See what I mean? There are things in the sentence that could be subconciously pricking people. So I can see what they mean by these things.

Though I can't definitively say, just based on that, and not knowing either the OP or the girl in question what is truly meant, or where the heart is, or any of that, as I truly don't know, and it's like the blind leading the blind here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic
Of more interest to me is "why" there is the apparent need to continue guessing what her intent was for seven pages now? What is the psychology behind this continuing guessing game? Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Most of the thread hasn't been trying to guess what she means- actually I think what started this was a few people making a fairly negative guess at interpreting what was said.

Then a bunch of "There's no way you can say it's that negative interpretation any more than these positive or nuetral interpretations"

Then somehow it became a "Slaves do X, it's unslavely to do Y" true slaves sort of debate.

The actual guessing and application of meaning started and stopped with the few negative interpretations.

I'm curious to why a few people went for the negative interpretation being likely. It does seem to reinforce the notion that people equate sacrifice with submission, and spoiling is looked down upon. This notion could easily spread from interpretation to 'fact" to social rule. Happens all the time.

But we've all given loads of interpretations in our lives- mostly based on past experience and some intuitive mixing. Sometimes we're dead on, sometimes we're not.

Again LA, I'd have to agree whole-heartedly. At this juncture, all we have is a ton of conjecture and guess work, which doesn't at all provide definition here.

Secondly, the OP has never reared up and said anything since the original post, no doubt having gotten lost in the zoo that is collarme, just as she got lost in the "zoo" that is this other Master/slave relationship.

Peace.

Tora Kuo

_____________________________

Consistent Discipline Renders Punishment Unnecessary

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/12/2007 6:53:26 PM

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We are talking about different incidents then. The one I'm thinking of, her clothes caught fire and her chin pretty much became fused with her chest so that her mouth was always open because of the scar tissue and her arm was glued to her side because of scar tissue. She had trouble eating was getting really malnurished because of it. I forget what group, but a group paid for her to come to the US and have the scar tissue cut away. By the end of (I think) 13 operations, she looked like a pretty normal, healthy and beautiful little girl.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/12/2007 7:50:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Making the e-book larger by being verbose doesn't automatically equate to a value added situation.

It may if you are paid per word.

The only profession paid per word is the "copy writer". This is a person, whose every word must translate to something useful for the client (in this case, we'll use 'e-book author'). And by that, I mean, every word must create conversion (turn visitors into buyers) and therefore be profitable. If (in copywriting) a word doesn't do something for the copy, for converting visits to sales, then it doesn't belong in the copy. Period.

However, the job of the e-book author, is to provide value to the client, and that is what I meant by value added situation.

E-book authors do not get paid by the word, they get paid for the amount of value added information, actionable information or otherwise entertaining information that they can provide their clients, not by each word. They get paid for the whole of the package, not each individual piece they've written. If that were the case, we'd see such inflated prices on e-books you couldn't even imagine. Astronomical. Which is the cost of a copywriter, not an e-book author.

While this might be the case for some, discussing some more complicated topics, where you must explain a concept more fully, and in different ways, in general, the more to the point you are, the better.

So, just to put it in perspective.. Copywriters get paid per word... Not literally, but it seems that way, when they command fees upwards of $5,000 for a 12 page sales letter.

E-books don't cost any more (depending on subject matter) than a couple hundred dollars ($197.00 US for example).

Most of the time, e-books command (highly dependent on the number of pages involved and the value of the information --- Value equates to "what does it do for me, the consumer of this information?") between $7 (short reports between 10 and 30 pages) and $47, or even as high on average of $97 (an full blown e-bookof about 150 to 350 pages).

As you can tell, they don't get paid by the word. They get paid by way of the information. Which must be value added... Being verbose doesn't necessarily equate to value add for the CLIENT... Especially if it's non-actionable, fatty filler. Meaning that it's there, there are words, but they don't mean anything to the overall concept being discussed.

And if the book fails to deliver, then the e-book author runs a risk that they're once buying customers will never buy from them again, which is bad business. So it's not about the author, it's about the service they provide to their clientele.

Sorry folks, I realize this is way off topic. In any case, I can see the point, that if they got paid by the word, it'd be a value add to the author. But that's not the case. And it's not about the author. It's about their clients.

Peace.

Tora Kuo

_____________________________

Consistent Discipline Renders Punishment Unnecessary

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/12/2007 9:05:39 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

We are talking about different incidents then.

Sounds like it. Either way, nice photograph. Just wish I could find it. The one I linked in my post is just an afterglow.

The burn bits aren't the big deal, it was just a sidetrack. The main bit is the father's expression. I'll have to get ahold of the original one of these days, and frame it on the wall with the title "Joy" or somesuch. It's not that what he'd been through was so very special, compared to a lot of the stuff that goes on around the world, but rather simply that he must have had some pretty profound emotions, as well as a profound love for his daughter, and with the right timing, the photographer had managed to catch him in a moment that perfectly expressed this.

It just came up as a tangent to the burn unit, which leads us back to:

Will you donate skin to the BDSM commandments first edition?

I think I have the first one already:

"Thou shalt not quote the Commandments."

Can you tell it's late? ~lol~

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/13/2007 7:55:01 AM

CreativeDominant

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~fast reply~

Words have meaning. They have to. A simple statement like "if mama ain't happy, then no body is happy" can mean that you are dealing with a woman who, when she is unhappy, makes sure that no one else in the family is happy either OR a woman who understands that when she is unhappy that her dominant considers himself unhappy until he makes her happy and/or a woman who understands that when she is unhappy, her dominant may be unhappy also but is perfectly willing for her to suffer that unhappiness because at the time, she is "deserving" of it.
This is why I say that you and your partner can define your relationship anyway you want to and in the personal context, it does only matter to you. I would never come in and question it openly...that would be rude and ill-mannered. However, once it is brought to like-minded people and statements are made as to what you are, then you can expect that some people are going to now consider your definition of yourself to be open to question and that they may disagree with you.

(in reply to TigerNINTails)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/13/2007 7:58:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

~fast reply~

Words have meaning. They have to. A simple statement like "if mama ain't happy, then no body is happy" can mean that you are dealing with a woman who, when she is unhappy, makes sure that no one else in the family is happy either OR a woman who understands that when she is unhappy that her dominant considers himself unhappy until he makes her happy and/or a woman who understands that when she is unhappy, her dominant may be unhappy also but is perfectly willing for her to suffer that unhappiness because at the time, she is "deserving" of it.
This is why I say that you and your partner can define your relationship anyway you want to and in the personal context, it does only matter to you. I would never come in and question it openly...that would be rude and ill-mannered. However, once it is brought to like-minded people and statements are made as to what you are, then you can expect that some people are going to now consider your definition of yourself to be open to question and that they may disagree with you.

She didn't bring it here though.

An envious slave who may or may not know her well, may or may not be taking it very out of context and may or may not be overstating it did.

Hardly enough for a fair assessment.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/13/2007 5:26:15 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

~fast reply~

Words have meaning. They have to. A simple statement like "if mama ain't happy, then no body is happy" can mean that you are dealing with a woman who, when she is unhappy, makes sure that no one else in the family is happy either OR a woman who understands that when she is unhappy that her dominant considers himself unhappy until he makes her happy and/or a woman who understands that when she is unhappy, her dominant may be unhappy also but is perfectly willing for her to suffer that unhappiness because at the time, she is "deserving" of it.
This is why I say that you and your partner can define your relationship anyway you want to and in the personal context, it does only matter to you. I would never come in and question it openly...that would be rude and ill-mannered. However, once it is brought to like-minded people and statements are made as to what you are, then you can expect that some people are going to now consider your definition of yourself to be open to question and that they may disagree with you.

She didn't bring it here though.

An envious slave who may or may not know her well, may or may not be taking it very out of context and may or may not be overstating it did.

Hardly enough for a fair assessment.

Nor was I making one...which if you had been following my posts and have read any of my stuff prior to this thread, you would know. I was stating my impressions and my beliefs about something unrelated to the OP but to the subject of words and whether or not they have meaning, a subject touched on in this thread.

As for the OP, you are right...she may be jealous of what the other one has in her dynamic. Or she may not...I do not know and have stated that in several posts back. My statement, like so many others posts on here, was more along the general lines and addressing the generic "you" rather than a specific you. Hence, that is why I used fast reply and directed it at no one in particular. The fact that it showed up as directed at TigerNinTails was not my doing and I am unsure why using the Fast Reply resulted in it being stated that it was directed at TNT for I did not direct it at them.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/13/2007 5:34:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

As for the OP, you are right...she may be jealous of what the other one has in her dynamic. Or she may not...I do not know and have stated that in several posts back. My statement, like so many others posts on here, was more along the general lines and addressing the generic "you" rather than a specific you. Hence, that is why I used fast reply and directed it at no one in particular. The fact that it showed up as directed at TigerNinTails was not my doing and I am unsure why using the Fast Reply resulted in it being stated that it was directed at TNT for I did not direct it at them.

I do believe that the OP stated she was envious in later posts. Even if she wasn't, we know she believes the other slave to be spoiled because of the slave's different and seemingly more lax treatment. Hence I just don't understand why the discussion has gone this way at all.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/14/2007 11:32:54 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

As for the OP, you are right...she may be jealous of what the other one has in her dynamic. Or she may not...I do not know and have stated that in several posts back. My statement, like so many others posts on here, was more along the general lines and addressing the generic "you" rather than a specific you. Hence, that is why I used fast reply and directed it at no one in particular. The fact that it showed up as directed at TigerNinTails was not my doing and I am unsure why using the Fast Reply resulted in it being stated that it was directed at TNT for I did not direct it at them.

I do believe that the OP stated she was envious in later posts. Even if she wasn't, we know she believes the other slave to be spoiled because of the slave's different and seemingly more lax treatment. Hence I just don't understand why the discussion has gone this way at all.

Probably because threads veer and concomitant points are touched on. Spoiled is in the eye of the beholder. If I look at a guy who has a wife and 5 kids and they are living in a 700 square foot house but he is driving a brand new Vette while his wife, who also works, is driving a 10 year old Taurus with 200, 000 miles on it, I might consider him spoiled. He might think he deserves it. Again, another one of those areas where judgments are going to be made.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/14/2007 1:11:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

As for the OP, you are right...she may be jealous of what the other one has in her dynamic. Or she may not...I do not know and have stated that in several posts back. My statement, like so many others posts on here, was more along the general lines and addressing the generic "you" rather than a specific you. Hence, that is why I used fast reply and directed it at no one in particular. The fact that it showed up as directed at TigerNinTails was not my doing and I am unsure why using the Fast Reply resulted in it being stated that it was directed at TNT for I did not direct it at them.

I do believe that the OP stated she was envious in later posts. Even if she wasn't, we know she believes the other slave to be spoiled because of the slave's different and seemingly more lax treatment. Hence I just don't understand why the discussion has gone this way at all.

Probably because threads veer and concomitant points are touched on. Spoiled is in the eye of the beholder. If I look at a guy who has a wife and 5 kids and they are living in a 700 square foot house but he is driving a brand new Vette while his wife, who also works, is driving a 10 year old Taurus with 200, 000 miles on it, I might consider him spoiled. He might think he deserves it. Again, another one of those areas where judgments are going to be made.

The thing is that we don't know that much information about this particular slave and her owner. If Valyraen bought me a Tiffiany's necklace at this point in time, when he has just been laid off, then yeah, that would be called spoiling me. Ten years down the road, if we are both working good jobs, pulling in 25k a year together or apart, then no it's not. It's buying a nice piece of jewelry that we can afford.

We don't know anything and I'm highly hestiant to say anything condeming when the scant facts we do have come from a source who thinks the slave is spoiled and is envious. I just don't think it is a trustworthy source. It's hard enough to make fair judgements when we are hearing from the people directly involved.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/14/2007 2:49:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

To me this is simple. A slave is an owned person. I don't care how luxurious her life is...if she is *owned*, she is a slave.

She doesn't even have to ever serve, she just needs to be owned.

Thankyou BeingChewsie,

This works for me. Since i started exploring my path of surrender, i have been told i either was or wasn't a slave for a variety of reasons but never this one. And yet this is so clear and obvious to me...
i am sure i have probably read or heard it before - but tonight it finally became clear.
Thankyou~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/15/2007 9:33:16 PM

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I'm sitting here thinking about the OP being covetous of another slave whose owner buys her new appliances and a nice collar, and doesn't bind her to the bed at night, while the OP *is* bound to the bed at night and treated more "like a slave." Dare I say I envy the OP for what she has? For the fact that her Master is there with her? For the fact that he binds her to the bed each night? For the fact that he sets rules for her and she must obey them?

I had rules once. I used to be bound to the bed every night. The Kaptin used to be here with me every night. He isn't now, and hasn't been for years. We don't know when He'll be able to come back home full time again. Do you know how hard it is to maintain a Master/slave relationship when Master is only home 60 days a year? So to those who are envious of what others have... be thankful for what you do have, because you never know when it might all disappear.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to TigerNINTails)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/15/2007 9:40:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TigerNINTails

The only profession paid per word is the "copy writer". This is a person, whose every word must translate to something useful for the client (in this case, we'll use 'e-book author'). And by that, I mean, every word must create conversion (turn visitors into buyers) and therefore be profitable. If (in copywriting) a word doesn't do something for the copy, for converting visits to sales, then it doesn't belong in the copy. Period.

Al Franken talks in his book "Lying Liars And The Lies They Tell" that one of the reasons he keeps re-quoting some drivel from some right wing talking head who wrote lousy pornography was to make the point that he is paid by the word, like that talking head is.

On a related note, I have been published in a few magazines, I got paid by the word, and I was not a copy writer.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TigerNINTails)

RE: Differences between slaves and how they are treated. - 6/15/2007 9:42:03 PM

imthatacheyouhav

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

I'm sitting here thinking about the OP being covetous of another slave whose owner buys her new appliances and a nice collar, and doesn't bind her to the bed at night, while the OP *is* bound to the bed at night and treated more "like a slave." Dare I say I envy the OP for what she has? For the fact that her Master is there with her? For the fact that he binds her to the bed each night? For the fact that he sets rules for her and she must obey them?

I had rules once. I used to be bound to the bed every night. The Kaptin used to be here with me every night. He isn't now, and hasn't been for years. We don't know when He'll be able to come back home full time again. Do you know how hard it is to maintain a Master/slave relationship when Master is only home 60 days a year? So to those who are envious of what others have... be thankful for what you do have, because you never know when it might all disappear.

Thankyou for that.

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to Evanesce)

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