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RE: Birth Order? - 6/15/2004 6:09:48 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I feel your pain. They wonder why they only see me at big occasions like Christmas. My cheek (face cheek, perverts, that's my Mom!) is sore from the pinching.

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(in reply to Thanatosian)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Birth Order? - 6/17/2004 12:05:12 PM   
Hisown


Posts: 4
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Hello all...

i'm a submissive with masochistic tendencies. Among my siblings i am the oldest of 7. Three from my mother, three from my father, and one that my mother gave up for adoption. Though, i don't know where she would fit in. As a kid i was older by enough so that from about day one for most of them i babysat, changed diapers and eased them off to sleep. Someone mentioned being a single parent, seeing that makes me want to say...i became a mother at 15, having 3 children by the time i was 20. i have seen, on a few forums, this discussion about birth order and what that has to do with our chosen/taken/given roles on the Life. i guess i haven't thought much about it.

i have this underlying fear that if i look at my nature too closely i will rationalize it away. i don't want that. i find such peace in it, that i don't want it to go anywhere.

But...smiles...feel free to analyze to your heart's content!

joanna

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Birth Order? - 6/17/2004 9:21:38 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian

indeed, welcome back iwill

quote:

Then there is the baby of the family. (I’m 38. Can I please not be the baby anymore or at least get changed once in a while? )


I can commiserate with you on this one - there is already a next generation, and some of that generation also have offspring of their own - can't one of those kids be the baby of the family instead of me???? sheesh, at 36, being the 'baby' of the family is getting kinda old (rimshot)


Ahhh welcome to my world lol! Am the youngest of 14, same parents, all single births (my mother was a saint :P), and at 35, soon to be 36, I'm still 'the baby' and get reminded of it at every family get together! lol ... neices 21st tomorrow night, and my own son's 20th the day after...do I get some kudos for birthing and raising an adult...no...I'm still 'the baby'!

As the youngest, my dominance in situations has played second fiddle to my elder sisters and brothers at times, mostly because they can and do pull the 'baby' card and have dismissed my views and suggestions as not having merits...remember they are the all knowing elders. A result of this has being me withdrawing or hiding my light so to speak when around them, not just as a dominant but as a person/individual also.

But a few years ago they all learnt about my interest in BDSM (I was interviewed for a film docomentary on Dominatrices in New Zealand called 'Bound for Pleasure', and a tv version aired on national television) and to my delight it helped them see 'the baby' of the family in a different light.

One brother said, and I'll treasure his words forever, how he'd spent all these years not getting to know me the person because I was just his 'little sis' and that was all he needed to know about me...but now he sees me as an interesting person to know, with views on the world and life, someone willing to make personal choices and take chances with them, someone strong and intelligent...and someone worthy of knowing.

Re the topic and dominance submission vs birth order...hmm...I know my dominance in most aspects has being formed from seeing and feeling gender and social injustices. 9 brothers, 4 sisters...the girls did 'womens work' ...the boys did 'mens work'...and the family considered economically 'lower income'. Other than some of us having vaginas and others having penises, and people having money and others having no money to mean a difference in social status and importance, no one could give me any other good reason why the difference in equality other than stereotyping and ignorance/arrogance.

In vanilla settings I am very laid back, relaxed, good company, witty and humourous but if something needs to be done or said my dominance will come to the fore...but I use it wisely...




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(in reply to Thanatosian)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Birth Order? - 6/17/2004 9:44:22 PM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		I am the second oldest of 14, a twin (girls), we are both dominant. I have an older sister (submissive), a younger sister (#7) Dominant, two brothers (#'s 9 & 12) Dominant, the rest are submissive. I have five children, all are dominant.

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(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Birth Order? - 6/17/2004 10:29:26 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I am the second oldest of 14, a twin (girls), we are both dominant. I have an older sister (submissive), a younger sister (#7) Dominant, two brothers (#'s 9 & 12) Dominant, the rest are submissive. I have five children, all are dominant.


Do you mean they are all in the lifestyle, or that they have those tendencies? I wonder if any identical twins are one dominant and one submissive, that would be interesting.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Birth Order? - 6/17/2004 11:12:45 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, actually there are Proud. I know a slave whose identical (older by 7 minutes) sister is a dominant. Both are lifestyle.

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Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Birth Order? - 6/17/2004 11:17:40 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I know a slave whose identical (older by 7 minutes) sister is a dominant. Both are lifestyle.


There goes the theory you are born dom or sub.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to EStrict)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Birth Order? - 6/18/2004 3:06:20 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		Oldest of four, and Dominant (except when my boss is in a bad mood.)

I don't think birth order has as much to do with the level of Dominance as the model we follow of our parents. My father was a submissive man (almost to a T) and my mother was as close to a tough as nails slave as a woman can get. Naturally that didn't work, and they divorced when I was five and my father kept custody (to please his own mother, a rather dominant woman.) At seven years old, my dad married a domineering bitch of a woman and while he wasn't exactly happy, he was 'content.'

Going out on a limb, I'll say that my tendencies as a Dominant probably had more to do with a desire to provide my mother with what she needed emotionally. By looking at my own family and the families of people around me, I think that tends to be the rule, not the exception - that men tend to become the opposite of their mothers (in Ds terms) and women the opposite of their fathers.

Stephan

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(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Birth Order? - 6/18/2004 5:09:26 AM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline
quote:

that men tend to become the opposite of their mothers (in Ds terms) and women the opposite of their fathers.


with room for exceptions of course (I presume) - re my own situation - older brother submissive, me dom - we cant both be the opposite of our mother ( and no she was not a 'switch' personality ) - "old fashioned" type family here, dad the breadwinner mom the housewife but both equal partners in it - no hint of lifestyle in either of them

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(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Birth Order? - 6/18/2004 8:06:15 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian

with room for exceptions of course (I presume) - re my own situation - older brother submissive, me dom - we cant both be the opposite of our mother ( and no she was not a 'switch' personality ) - "old fashioned" type family here, dad the breadwinner mom the housewife but both equal partners in it - no hint of lifestyle in either of them


Ohhhh man I didn't mean to word my post in absolute terms! I was just suggesting possible tendencies - the professed role of Dominant and submissive are hardly the result of any one factor, be it birth order, parental dynamics, education, genetics, etc etc etc... all of these elements congeal into one big answer. The human personality is infinately complex, so any effort to offer insight into a specific person must remain within context. I was just offering generalities - the example of the twins positively proves my 'generality' wrong. Then again, twins are the rare exception, not the rule and wouldn't fit within a 'general' approach to anything.

Stephan

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Birth Order? - 6/18/2004 10:06:20 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		The nature vs. nurture debate has been going on in psychology for years and years.

It is entirely possible that whether one ends up Dominant or submissive is a combination of a) their genetic makeup and b) the environment they grew up in. In the case of identical twins, it is true their genome is identical, however, the environnmental factors are completely different for both parties.

Sinergy

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(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Birth Order? - 6/19/2004 7:56:05 AM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Ohhhh man I didn't mean to word my post in absolute terms!


you didn't - you specifically stated 'tend to' - did not intend my post to sound critical - just, being somewhat anal retentive (inherited from perfectionist dad, thanks pop!), was moved to point out that there would have to be exceptions.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Birth Order? - 6/19/2004 8:16:19 AM   
confusetheswede


Posts: 48
Joined: 4/5/2004
From: THE DIRTY DIRTY
Status: offline 		I'm an only child..... there is no birth order.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Birth Order? - 6/19/2004 9:12:55 AM   
silkNsteel


Posts: 23
Joined: 4/24/2004
Status: offline 		Just to add a different level of confusion to the subject.

I was adopted at 20 days old, their blood daughter is 8 months younger. (yes carrying her when they adopted me but they didnt know it). No hint of the lifestyle in any of them. I am submissive, but have been dominant in my job. Sister would be considered dominant in her job of teacher as well.

I dont know much about my blood family and have never met them so I cant say anything of their personalities.

silkNsteel

(in reply to confusetheswede)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Birth Order? - 6/19/2004 11:30:30 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I have to add emphasis to Thantosians point. My Mom was a typical "housewife" of that generation. (Think Donna Reed, June Cleaver and Edith Bunker). I can't see any one of them as dominaqnt, yet I am submissive.

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When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Thanatosian)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Birth Order? - 6/19/2004 11:35:52 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, Topcat,
We're now 55 replies into the birth order thing. Since, you feel it plays a significant role.

Ok...please analyze it all. I'm ready for some results. I hope this sampling was'nt too odd that it doesn't fit into the norm. Whatever the norm is of course.

What does it all mean?

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Birth Order? - 6/19/2004 12:32:06 PM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		iwill,

I knew a guy who was as submissive as it gets - not because his mother was Dominant, but because his father was over domineering. I find (in my expriences) that when a father is abusive, the results are that the children are either overly dominant or overly submissive depending on which approach worked best with the father in question. All of the children in that family, male and female, are submissive save for the oldest - a daughter - who was like a second mother to the children (think had to be submissive to dad and hating it.)

Soooo again, it's not a matter of one way being right.

Stephan

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Birth Order? - 6/19/2004 4:05:11 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		Midear Gloria-

Rough count, I come up with 59% correlation with the older/eldest = Dominant theroy. Some of the middle or switch answers I threw out (without any real qualification) or assigned yea or nay based on how I read their responses.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Birth Order? - 6/19/2004 6:16:00 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Actually Sir, I need to throw a monkey wrench into your numbers. I goofed, the older of the twins I mentioned is the slave, it is the 2nd one that is a dominant. Also, I don't know if mentioned Master is a 2nd child and dominant, where his older brother is submissive in nature. His mother is also submissive, which makes the *opposite of mother* not work since each son is opposite.

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Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Birth Order? - 6/20/2004 6:35:41 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

As this thread has progressed, it's occuring to me that while it may not so much be a factor in which side of the slash we end up on, being an eldest certainly gives us a head start on being in a lead position.


I am a younger child. My father is a passive-aggressive control freak, I spent most of my childhood rebelling against his attempts to pound me into a submissive position to him. My sister ended up being extremely submissive, I didnt. Both of us ended up with a wide array of techniques to deal with his overbearing attempts to infringe on our boundaries.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to baileythorne)
Profile   Post #: 60
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