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RE: Birth Order? - 6/20/2004 11:24:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I am a younger child. My father is a passive-aggressive control freak, I spent most of my childhood rebelling against his attempts to pound me into a submissive position to him. My sister ended up being extremely submissive, I didnt. Both of us ended up with a wide array of techniques to deal with his overbearing attempts to infringe on our boundaries.

Sinergy,

Thank you - that was far more eloquant then my convulted attempt to point out it's not just the natural personalities of the parents, but rather a healthy dose of which methods learned as a child were most effective to placate less then ideal parents.

If one child rebels and is unsuccessful every time, they are likely to give up after a few attempts. If another child has more success (again, measured by individual preference) in the first few tries, they will learn to exploit those weaknesses. I think this has more to do with why I am Dominant then submissive, as being 'strong' was the only way I could stand to co-exist with my heathen bitch of a stepmother. On the other hand, the rest of the children in my family ended up submissive.

Stephan

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(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Birth Order? - 6/20/2004 2:11:58 PM

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quote:

Sinergy,

Thank you - that was far more eloquant then my convulted attempt to point out it's not just the natural personalities of the parents, but rather a healthy dose of which methods learned as a child were most effective to placate less then ideal parents.

You are welcome. I did not really learn the techniques to placate my parents, the techniques I describe were primarily avoidance measures. I did not spend much time in their house, leaving to go to school at 7:30am and returning from my friend's house at 10 when it was time to go to bed. The less I was around them, the fewer conflicts I had to deal with.

Nature and nurture interact to establish a person's personality, imho.

Sinergy

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(in reply to Voltare)

RE: Birth Order? - 6/22/2004 12:11:12 PM

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I am the youngest of Two. My older sister is an attorney and would likely be a Domme if she wasn't so stuck on herself and allowed herself a little fun. My mother is a doctor and very dominant in her career.

The interesting thing is... my father is also a Dom. Don't ask how I know just…
Hmm, no go ahead and ask, it is a funny story.

When I was in early college, my parents were away on holiday and I brought a beautiful girl to their house for the weekend. It seemed like a wonderful time for us to get away from the dorms. I started a fire in the greatroom and went to find something for us to drink. Breaking into my father's wine cellar seemed to be the only way to procure a good bottle of wine for us, so I knocked the hinge pins out and eased the door aside. (The Vino-cave is an old bomb shelter from the 1950's) Now, my father had no idea I would be there that weekend and even less idea that his beloved son would be stealing his wine, so he had not put away items that might normally have been secured.

Sitting on the hightop inside the wine cellar were an assortment of cuffs, binds and two floggers. I was aghast! for a total of 3-seconds before I smiled and gave a mental thumbs up to my parents. Then I stole a bottle of iced wine and went to get laid.

Be good,
Kurt

(in reply to topcat)

RE: Birth Order? - 6/22/2004 3:31:03 PM

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quote:

Sitting on the hightop inside the wine cellar were an assortment of cuffs, binds and two floggers. I was aghast! for a total of 3-seconds before I smiled and gave a mental thumbs up to my parents. Then I stole a bottle of iced wine and went to get laid.

I am curious, did he ever find out you saw his toys? I worry about my daughters accidently finding my stash of toys.

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"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

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(in reply to AutumnSpell)

RE: Birth Order? - 6/22/2004 3:40:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

Sitting on the hightop inside the wine cellar were an assortment of cuffs, binds and two floggers. I was aghast! for a total of 3-seconds before I smiled and gave a mental thumbs up to my parents. Then I stole a bottle of iced wine and went to get laid.

I am curious, did he ever find out you saw his toys? I worry about my daughters accidently finding my stash of toys.

Hello proudsub,

I don't believe he knows, but then again he always seemed to have ESP for things I had done. I replaced the wine (not knowning at the time what an iced wine was I thought that was going to be an easy chore... I was very much mistaken. Over a hundred dollars later I had replaced the wine... and my date was nice, but not up to the caliber of the wine selection for the evening.)

If he did find out and knows that I know, he has never led on or given any indication. But things are a little different I think, because I was already out of the house. I never again lived under the same roof. It would be quite a different story if they found out that I knew and I was still living with them. It is also different because I was old enough and already involved to a limited extent in D/s myself.

I don't know if all children are as I was, but there are few cubbie holes in that house that I had not poked my nose into. If your gear is available to be found, then it has been. I should ask my ex-girlfriend who is a child psychologist about what effects that might have on a younger head filled with mush.

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Birth Order? - 6/22/2004 4:07:21 PM

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quote:

I don't know if all children are as I was, but there are few cubbie holes in that house that I had not poked my nose into. If your gear is available to be found, then it has been. I should ask my ex-girlfriend who is a child psychologist about what effects that might have on a younger head filled with mush.

You are probably right there LOL. My daughters are 25 and 28, but the 25 yr old is still at home during school vacations. She has one more year of grad school, sigh.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to AutumnSpell)

RE: Birth Order? - 6/22/2004 4:23:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

I don't know if all children are as I was, but there are few cubbie holes in that house that I had not poked my nose into. If your gear is available to be found, then it has been. I should ask my ex-girlfriend who is a child psychologist about what effects that might have on a younger head filled with mush.

You are probably right there LOL. My daughters are 25 and 28, but the 25 yr old is still at home during school vacations. She has one more year of grad school, sigh.

Well certain toys are ubiquitous for women, so I wouldn't worry about those. What are you afraid she might have seen? Looking back on what I found I was pleased to see some quality leather goods. Which to me meant that they hadn't just dabbled in it when us kids left for college. (I remember that my father was re-romancing my mother once we were both out of the house. I could never go to their home without seeing flowers for my mother. It was nice.) But I do have to admit, unless I am suffering from post traumatic stress disorder from finding out about their interest at a younger age, I had no clue until I saw the items in the cellar.

Be good,
Kurt

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Birth Order? - 6/22/2004 5:10:36 PM

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quote:

Well certain toys are ubiquitous for women, so I wouldn't worry about those. What are you afraid she might have seen?

Oh I'm sure she has seen the normal things--dildos and vibs, maybe even my butt plugs, they aren't very well hidden. It's the cuffs, floggers, nip clamps, etc that concern me.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to AutumnSpell)

RE: Birth Order? - 6/22/2004 6:15:45 PM

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How very interesting all the posts to this subject were!

i am the oldest of three. Sister is middle and brother is the "baby". Both of them want to be "in charge" and yet my folks, even today, still look to me to take care of them and decide what is best when they are not sure. i'm not a switch and yet i'm not Dominant by no means either.

i went to tech school after graduating and brother and sister went to college and graduated with degrees. They think i'm smart and know things the other two don't. They lean on me and depend on me as they begin to age, sometimes not so gracefully and yet with determination.

During my years in counseling when in my late 20's and early30's, i was told i was a "natural" leader. And to this day, i frown and shake my head because i don't want to be a leader. And yet, in work situations and home life with kids and parents, it seems i don't have a choice. i can't "just say no" and walk away when others need me and look to me for guidance. Yet i still long to find someone that is just a tad bit stronger to take over and let me simply give and do, if only lifes circumstances would allow it.

i am submissive to the core of me, yet i am "pushed" into leading and giving all that i am to whomever needs it at the time.

Was that nurtured or nature taking its course? Sometimes, i think nurturing can mislead a person to being something that goes against their grain by nature.

desire

(in reply to topcat)

RE: Birth Order? - 6/22/2004 8:02:53 PM

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Well, i'm the oldest of 7 children...i have 6 sisters. i grew up watching our family go from "Father Knows Best" to "Eight is Enough" (in our case...7). Growing up in a "Female" environment made me more comfortable around Females in general. i think there's a lot of reasons i'm submissive but feel my home environment gave me a better sensitivity to communicating with the opposite sex more than anything else.

anthrosub

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RE: Birth Order? - 7/3/2004 10:21:09 AM

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This thread has been active. I figured I'd give my two cents for the hell of it.

I am the youngest of my biological family, and began as the goodie two shoes and actually very submissive. My family was borderline physical abusive, and very mentally. My parents divorced and I didn't even meet my dad till I was 7 and didn't know who he was till 5 years later almost.
My mother's second husband (I don't consider them step family) was often quiet, but seemed the dominant. Upon further inspection later, my mother seemed to be controlling through suggestion, though she seemed the submissive.
Her current husband I see as rather submissive, but can be very dominant at times. And same with her. I don't know how long the marriage will last seeing as she's dominant, knows it and hates being told what to do, though maybe it will last because someone finally put her in her place
I only barely met half my families on my dad's side, he was married twice after my mother as well, and I would say both of those women were dominant as well, and it pissed my dad off. His current wife seems to be a bit of a switch.
LOL Now that you all are saying 'wtf, why did she share that with us' I'll get to the point. Half the people in my family have a dominant nature, but mask it as submissive except for my biological dad, who is 'man of the house' and won't be told differently. Rather old fashioned and feels the women should go to work, and still come home, cook, clean and make him happy.

Both me and my biological sister are dominant. I personally feel I came into it earlier than she did. While she was a rebel, she was very quiet and reserved around other people until her late teens and early twenties. I discovered my dominant side around 14 and hid it very well until recently for safety reasons.

Good luck figuring that one out

(in reply to baileythorne)

RE: Birth Order? - 7/12/2004 9:17:04 PM

angelthighhighs

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i agree that birth order has a lot to do with our personalities me...i have a problem..lol (what else is new) i was born the oldest in my birth family and lived with my mother and brother for a while..as the oldest. i was put up for adoption...in that family i was the youngest...talk about confused lol......i think i have a little of both in me

(in reply to topcat)

RE: Birth Order? - 7/12/2004 9:46:36 PM

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I am a twin, and a switch.
There's some ongoing discussion on who's the oldest because we were adopted, but I seem to show more domminant characteristics than my sister. She's not into BDSM at all.

(in reply to dixiedumpling)

RE: Birth Order? - 7/13/2004 4:14:58 AM

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I'm the third of four (boy, girl, girl, boy), and prefer to allow someone else to have the authority in a relationship. None of my siblings are interested in kink.

My sister jokes she "trained me up" for my ex, when we were growing up.

(in reply to baileythorne)

RE: Birth Order? - 7/13/2004 4:30:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat
Madame-
As this thread has progressed, it's occuring to me that while it may not so much be a factor in which side of the slash we end up on, being an eldest certainly gives us a head start on being in a lead position.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this one Lawrence. I am the eldest of two. When my brother and I were preteens, our mother spent a great deal of time in the hospital. So I learned to cook, clean, pack lunches, sow buttons, iron, do laundry, etc at the age of 11. Don't worry, my brother and father had their own chores I assigned to them ;)

Not only that, but I had to plow the terrain and my brother just came sauntering in after me. We make jokes about it all the time these days but at the time I found it frustrating. My brother is quiet and reserved and though I doubt he is interested in this lifestyle, I can tell you I doubt he would make a good dominant.

So did my position in my family make me more domme? Or was this simply my personality? I'm very much like my father who is very much like his mother. And I recall my mother once saying of her "Your grandmother was one very dominant woman." From my memories of her, I would have to agree.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 7/13/2004 4:32:52 AM >

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RE: Birth Order? - 7/15/2004 7:33:33 PM

tanna

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This has been a very interesting topic..

I'm an only child, and submissive.

Interesting how so many here are a sibling and there was just one other only child..

tanna

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RE: Birth Order? - 7/16/2004 11:10:47 AM

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Topcat I would agree with birthing order but I would also consider enviroment can alter it some what. The first born is consider to be dominate in control but if that person was supress because of how they was raised or treated such as emotional abuse then it would not be true would you agree.

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RE: Birth Order? - 7/16/2004 12:53:36 PM

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...an extremely interesting subject...

I am an only child also... 'submissive'....

...still wondering where the 'only child' minority fit into the theory...?(if there is one*s*)

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RE: Birth Order? - 7/16/2004 1:59:07 PM

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This has been an extremely interesting thread to read. I have been in many discussions on 'nature v/s nurture', however, birth order has never come in to it.

Like a few others on here I was an only child until my mother re-married right before I turned 15. When that happened I became the youngest of two stepbrothers and one stepsister. Only one of my brothers actually lived at home with us. My other two step-siblings were already living on their own so for me the impact was not that intense in terms of daily living with one brother. I can say that the new dynamic did impact me very deeply in the sense that for the first time in my life I actually loved and respected someone enough to call him 'Dad'. For me this love and respect was very easy to give because unlike my mother and most of the people I had ever encountered in society my dad never defined me by my 'gender'. He treated me no differently than he did my brother Andy in terms of rules and punishment, etc. My Dad was the first person to appreciate me and to truly teach me to grow in ways that the gender conformists of the world could not even fathom. He recognized my out of control domineering ways and instead setting out on a mission to turn me in to the worlds idea of a 'lady' he helped me learn discipline, self-discipline and the core meaning of respect for myself and respect for those I claim to love. He also helped me learn other ways to deal with my rage against the world instead of confronting everything and everyone with sheer venom. Interestingly enough he did all this by pulling from his background in the USMC. 5:00 am wake up calls with a bugle blowing loudly in my ear followed by combat training in the back yard. Chores and duties in the house were not gender based they were necessity based. I mowed the lawn, took out the trash and worked under the hood of vehicles just like my brother Andy. For the first time I felt the freedom to just be me instead of what the world expected of me as a 'girl'.

My mom and dad have long since been divorced, however, my relationship with my stepfamily has only grown stronger since that time.

Tigress

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: Birth Order? - 7/16/2004 4:02:45 PM

PassionateNights

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obviosuly your testing a hypthesis...so i'l throw in my stats...

1st born of a 1st born of a 1st born of a 1st born......and submissive as all hell (That's as far back as I can go on that family tree.....may be offset however by the other side of the family where i can trace back the the 7th son of James the 1st of Scotland.

good luck

(in reply to baileythorne)

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