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Strength and vulnerability - 6/8/2007 3:29:07 PM

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These are two qualities I absolutely adore in a man, and qualities that really feed my femdom lust. I'm curious how many other femdoms find these two to be attractive when combined, and how they impact their attraction to a man. For example, I have yet to hear of a femdom who would confess she is interested in "weak, simpering" men or pathetic worms.

As for vulnerability, that's a tricky one. I am really interested in hearing how submissive men view vulnerability.

When are you able to feel vulnerable for a woman? What does vulnerability feel like? Are you unwilling to let yourself feel vulnerable to a woman you do not know? Have you ever gotten a sense that a femdom is attracted to your vulnerability or turned on by it? If so, how do you work to show it - to offer it, to allow it?

I admit the last two questions are the ones that really have me thinking. It's clear to me that vulnerability is a HUGE turn on. In my experience, some men guard themselves (moreso vanilla guys) and getting them to a place of vulnerability is a challenge. Others, when they see that it turns me on, allow themselves to be more vulnerable.

It sounds complicated but it's so simple in many ways. When I was just a teenager dating, I was so incredibly turned on when a guy was nervous on a date with me. If he was shy or uneasy or afraid to make a move; that, to me, was a type of vulnerability. I don't want to get into a long talk about what "vulnerability" means, but I do find it to be incredibly interesting....and arousing.

Akasha

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RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/8/2007 4:18:25 PM

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Hi Maam, to me allowing myself to be Vulnerable means to open myself up ( No smirking folks ) it means being able to offer myself, not just physically but also emotionally. To spill my deepest fears and secrets, to admit what frightens me, to admit my faults. Then i feel a certain vulnerability knowing i have laid my thoughts open. Dropping the normal barriers we use as a safety mechanism.
Normally, but not always, i have to know someone really well to be able to do this. Sometimes there is a connection with a relative stranger that allows me to show my vulnerable side.

Strength, not physical but mental and emotional allows me to do the above.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/8/2007 7:27:24 PM

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I too feel what you feel. I was always a sucker for the shy nervous ones. I loved taking command and bringing them out of their shells. While I can't speak for Robert on this, I will indeed ensure he ponders your questions and sends an answer to the thread.

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RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/8/2007 7:38:23 PM

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there is something very erotic about a vulunerable boy - and being able to take control and lead him places he didnt think he could or would go.

mmmmmm

WyckedMystress

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RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/8/2007 7:49:52 PM

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One thing that keeps going through My mind is a simple statement. In vulnerability, I see the strength. Maybe that is what is so appealing about it to begin with. It's not the type of strength that the vanilla world stereotypes a male to be. In fact, it takes more courage to be something other than what society would define as what a male should be.

(in reply to WyckedMystress)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/8/2007 8:57:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
For example, I have yet to hear of a femdom who would confess she is interested in "weak, simpering" men or pathetic worms.

(snip)

It sounds complicated but it's so simple in many ways. When I was just a teenager dating, I was so incredibly turned on when a guy was nervous on a date with me. If he was shy or uneasy or afraid to make a move; that, to me, was a type of vulnerability. I don't want to get into a long talk about what "vulnerability" means, but I do find it to be incredibly interesting....and arousing.

Akasha

Doh! i'm so lost... i always assumed that shyness was inseparable from that "lack of confidence" thing that was a direct result of the "weak" thing that made guys like me untouchable. Is not simple

quote:

As for vulnerability, that's a tricky one. I am really interested in hearing how submissive men view vulnerability.

When are you able to feel vulnerable for a woman? What does vulnerability feel like? Are you unwilling to let yourself feel vulnerable to a woman you do not know? Have you ever gotten a sense that a femdom is attracted to your vulnerability or turned on by it? If so, how do you work to show it - to offer it, to allow it?

My perspective is probably weird, buuuutt.... to me, vulnerability is something like freedom. Dropping all of the layers of acts and scripts and thoughts and filters... reacting without thinking, without tempering. Nobody other than my wife gets that view of me, and i've lost track of how long it really took to develop that... As long as we've been together, we've shared all of our secrets and our pasts, seen each other at our respective worst times, and so there's no real sense of vulnerability in that side of things- of having to consciously set aside the taboos of an emotion in order to express it. It's just sharing.

But with that being said so i don't get accused of having a one-track mind... when we scene for pain, i almost always start out stoic, because the "filter" that lets me shut out most minor physical pain and ignore it (take it like a man!) is so ingrained... but there's a point when those filters are overwhelmed, and that's when i truly feel vulnerable...What i think of as a shift in state, that seems so pronounced that it should be accompanied by some kind of noise, like a *click* or a *pop*... because that's when there's really no thought at all, that's when it's pure reaction. What greater vulnerability is there than to not try, or care to protect yourself... to be and react without ego or pride?

What indeed.

...dave

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/9/2007 7:40:09 AM

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I think the feeling of vulnerability never goes away, but I do think that we are less likely to put ourselves in that position as we age. I can remember being willing to do almost anything to gain the affections of a woman when I was a teenager and in my early twenties. But after you experience negative outcomes a few times, it tends to put you on guard a bit. That is not to say that I won't or don't make myself vulnerable to a woman. I just won't do it immediately. There are just too many predatory, sociopathic people (of both genders) that seek out people to use and discard.

I do love to feel that way though. It's nice to let go and just go with it. It feels scary and exciting at the same time. You find yourself doing and saying things that you wouldn't normally do or say. It's hard to explain, but it really is a wonderful feeling. Unfortunately, that instinct for self-preservation tends to muck up those feelings. I am still willing to let go and make myself vulnerable to someone, but I can't give you a set of circumstances that would allow that. I would just know it was okay when I felt it. I have gotten both positive and negative reactions from women about that. Some women find shyness absolutely adorable and some find it a turn-off. I don't think dominant women can be categorized anymore than other women. I don't really work on trying to show a woman anything when I meet them. I don't try to shape myself into something I am not. We all have insecurities, and it is hard enough to introduce those to a new person without adding to them by pretending to be someone we are not.

(in reply to petdave)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/9/2007 7:44:26 AM

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Personally I find the ability for everyone in a relationship to feel free enough to be vulnerable can be one sign of a good relationship.

I do not personally think it is a factor of DS role or personality type.

I do believe that someone in the sub role may reach that level faster than someone in the dom role because of the issues or authority and power and how those are supposed to demonstrate themselves.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/9/2007 9:50:45 AM

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Speaking for myself... I have a public side and a private side. It took 53yrs to cultivate the public side to be the typical strong average american male which I appear to be on the outside...or in public. Vanilla women seem to like the average macho all american male side of me but when I start to show the sensitive emotional side (the real me) then I became a pussy or wimp? After struggling with this most of my life ( and just recently becomming aware of it) and trying to hide my softer sensitive side from my mates...it finally dawned on me that stuffing my feelings was the turmoil that was tearing me up inside? It was causing unhealthy effects on relationships because I couldn't open up...was pretending to be something I really wasn't? I had tendancy to try and stick to the dominant average male stereotype usually resulting in a power struggle and an end to the relationship.

The bad relationships and the hurt invovled after a breakup also lead to avoiding deep relationships to keep any pain at arms length which is not healthy.

So now that all this crap has been building up for years I finally realize that it has to be purged and that means that somewhere along the line I need to be vulnerable to someone stronger who I trust completely. That has never happened before. Nobody has ever seen my private side.

In this wannabe subs' perception of things....somewhere along the line being completely vulnerable to another and allow that person to see my private side is gonna be the real challenge for both of us. If trust is built between two then I believe it can happen.

In my inexperience I think a sub would show strength by being vulnerable and a competant Mistress would show even more strength by being able to bring that complete vulnerability out in her sub? I would also like to think a Mistress could also let down her guard and be vulnerable if she felt the need to be and let the strength of her sub take over in those occasional times of need? That would also show how strong she was in my eyes?

Imo...I don't see how a D/s relationship could function without strength and vulnerability from both sides....but that's just me

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/9/2007 10:19:53 AM

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I'm pretty guarded about showing vulnerability to a woman. I think thats why I've never been interested in the casual "play scene". Most people would never think I was at all submissive if they met me in day to day life.

In a way, for me to drop those walls and become vulnerable shows how special a woman is to me. Not something I would do for someone who was a total stranger.

(in reply to stockingluvr54)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/9/2007 11:04:40 AM

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I think the two concepts in Akasha's post (strength and vulnerability) have to be linked in order to create an erotic power exchange dynamic.

If someone is simply weak, being vulnerable isn't an act of consensual surrender-- it's just being overpowered.

If someone is strong and not willing to make themselves vulnerable, there's no surrender or submission at all.

In order for the erotic dynamic to arise-- in my opinion-- you have to have a person of strength surrendering the advantage of strength, making themselves vulnerable, and consensually submitting to someone else.

To me, this dynamic is often inherent in the nature of a Femdom relationship, where typically, at least on a physical level, the male submissive is larger, stronger, etc., than the female domme, but is surrendering himself, and making himself vulnerable.

That's just at the physical level. It of course plays out on the emotional and psychological level as well. One of the struggles many have with submission is learning to give up control, particularly if in the rest of their life they are assertive, aggressive and take charge people.

It's one of the reasons that little things that symbolize submission can take on such an erotic aura. Like having the domme choose what the sub will wear, eat, etc. No big deal in and of themselves, but they underscore the willingness to give your will over to someone else.

Regards, ATP

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/9/2007 2:39:42 PM

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I would only open up myself to a dominant woman after we have gotten to know each other. I would feel vulnerable when I surrender to a dominant woman. I think it takes strength to submit myself to her. I would be nervous telling her my fears, feelings and desires. I would desire to show her my softer side and be myself.

I would like to reply to Akasha about being vulnerable to a dominant woman.
I know this married dominant woman for a few years at work. I would talk to her at times, and smile a lot at her. She is not afraid to tell people what she thinks. She is very outspoken on many things. She told me once that if she was single, I would be all hers and she would not take no for an answer. I do feel vulnerable that she knows me better than I know her.

I would like to reply to petdave about shyness was inseparable from the lack of confidence. I am somewhat shy and nervous about meeting a dominant woman. However, I do have confidence that I have skills and talent to offer her. I do feel that shyness and lack of confidence are not always together.
I think that there are women who find shyness a turn on and others who do not.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/9/2007 2:52:10 PM

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LadyPact: Exactly. Courage. Mental, emotional, spiritual. Crude physical strength and bravado are interesting societal attributes, but emotional courage, completely something else. I've done all the typical boy things, high risk, high adrenaline sports, motorcycles, ad nauseum. Just train a little, take a few deep breaths and jump in. To put your desires on a plate, handed to someone else who can simply discard them without a thought. Terrifying.

AAkasha: As for vulnerability, that's a tricky one. I am really interested in hearing how submissive men view vulnerability.

Nice question again Dr. Akasha. Is this spot on your couch okay? When are you able to feel vulnerable for a woman? When I trust her. This takes a while. I guess I try to show some in the beginning to let her know that it's now going to be pulling teeth. On the other, I not going to make my entire life an open book in 2 or 3 dinners either. What does vulnerability feel like? It feels like an ocean wave cascading on top of me. Warm, powerful, nurturing. A cocoon of safety. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to make the generalization that men have few opportunities to be vulnerable. Certainly it's rare that a man is vulnerable with another man. Having a relationship, vanilla or not, with a woman, where I can open up, truly open up, is really all that matters to me. Looks last about 6 weeks. It’s a way of peeling back layer and layer of the onion. Truly being actors in our own play, not societies play. Are you unwilling to let yourself feel vulnerable to a woman you do not know? I will open up and have a nice chat. Maybe even minor play. To really open up TO her, be vulnerable? Never. It’s a process. A courtship if you will. I court her, she courts me. Her courting me consists of showing me that my vulnerabilities will be appreciated, even nurtured. Not scorned as a weakness. Have you ever gotten a sense that a femdom is attracted to your vulnerability or turned on by it? If it was the attraction, I was too dense to realize it. I hope it is the thing that once they get to know me, becomes the attraction. If so, how do you work to show it - to offer it, to allow it? This is the/a difficult question. “Work to show an attribute that may not be what the other person is actually looking for? I just try to be myself polite, patient. Maybe try to be endearing with looking too cute. Each person is different and each pair of people creates a new dynamic. I think it all comes down to chemistry. Without the chemistry, it’s work. With chemistry, it seems to flow. Nice.

I sometimes wait to offer until I've been asked. When asked, I sometimes wait, just a little. Then ask, "do you really want to know? Really?" Then if I trust her, it will come forth as in a dance.

I admit the last two questions are the ones that really have me thinking. It's clear to me that vulnerability is a HUGE turn on. In my experience, some men guard themselves (more so vanilla guys) and getting them to a place of vulnerability is a challenge. Others, when they see that it turns me on, allow themselves to be more vulnerable. When I thought I was a vanilla boy, I was playing a role that society had placed on me. When I chose to listen to myself, what I REALLY wanted and needed, it was much much easier to open up. It has been my experience that when I am clear about who and what I am, then guarding myself is not so much of an issue. I know what is important and why I’m doing something. When I’m in a situation where I’m talking myself into something, I’m much more guarded. Simply: Know thyself. Easy to say, hard to do. I do this by writing, in journals. By thinking with the organ between my ears and not the one between my legs. Makes it much easier to be semi-rational, even for a boy.

It sounds complicated but it's so simple in many ways. When I was just a teenager dating, I was so incredibly turned on when a guy was nervous on a date with me. If he was shy or uneasy or afraid to make a move; that, to me, was a type of vulnerability. I don't want to get into a long talk about what "vulnerability" means, but I do find it to be incredibly interesting....and arousing. I don't think it is complicated at all. I was shy and nervous with women on a date because she was important to me. When I found myself in a situation where she wasn't important, I was never, ever shy or nervous. I just didn't care. That was an internal signal that took me a while to understand. I always used to think I was shy but really I think I was guarding my energy. Now I view my shyness as a strength. I guard my energy, vulnerability, etc for someone I want to share it with. I just don’t want to share it with every woman who calls herself a dominant.

Akasha

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RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/17/2007 7:46:32 PM

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Well, Ma'am, this rather goes to the heart of things. Admitting that vulnerability does go against the societal grain that men are exposed to while growing up and it takes a lot to really let go of it. And getting to that place may or may not be that huge of a turn on for Her, but it is for me. Surrender, releasing control, etcetera. i only hope that the dance of getting there is not the all of it. i've been there twice, almost three, times. It's a heady space.

i think that what You talk about in the last paragraph of the OP has a lot to do with the desire to be accepted by Her. Fumbling about and wanting to do the right things to impress.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/17/2007 8:58:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

These are two qualities I absolutely adore in a man, and qualities that really feed my femdom lust. I'm curious how many other femdoms find these two to be attractive when combined, and how they impact their attraction to a man. For example, I have yet to hear of a femdom who would confess she is interested in "weak, simpering" men or pathetic worms.

As for vulnerability, that's a tricky one. I am really interested in hearing how submissive men view vulnerability.

When are you able to feel vulnerable for a woman? What does vulnerability feel like? Are you unwilling to let yourself feel vulnerable to a woman you do not know? Have you ever gotten a sense that a femdom is attracted to your vulnerability or turned on by it? If so, how do you work to show it - to offer it, to allow it?

I admit the last two questions are the ones that really have me thinking. It's clear to me that vulnerability is a HUGE turn on. In my experience, some men guard themselves (moreso vanilla guys) and getting them to a place of vulnerability is a challenge. Others, when they see that it turns me on, allow themselves to be more vulnerable.

It sounds complicated but it's so simple in many ways. When I was just a teenager dating, I was so incredibly turned on when a guy was nervous on a date with me. If he was shy or uneasy or afraid to make a move; that, to me, was a type of vulnerability. I don't want to get into a long talk about what "vulnerability" means, but I do find it to be incredibly interesting....and arousing.

Akasha

Mmm yes, that's a fine quality. And they're mutually exclusive, you have to be strong to allow yourself to react in the only way known to you, even if it's being vulnerable.

The weak worms, if pliable enough, can be quite good to own.
:)

< Message edited by MistressDolly -- 6/17/2007 9:01:02 PM >

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RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/17/2007 11:05:50 PM

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I think they kind of go together. In order for a man to show his vulnerability, I think he needs to have a very strong sense of self and be confident in who he is. When I was younger and a lot more insecure, I would never admit to being hurt or sad. Now I am older and a lot more confident in who I am. I readily admit being hurt and disappointed because I know that these things are not a sign of weakness, but a sign of being a human being.

In addition, I think being vulnerable in front of a woman is a form of sincerity. You are letting her how you truly feel. As for simpering wimps and pushovers, that doesn't necessarily mean that the person is being vulnerable. He's just a weak person.

(in reply to MistressDolly)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/18/2007 5:16:53 AM

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Strength i have never really considered a factor. Mistress (i think) is far more turned on by the idea of my physical attributes being meaningless in our relationship than i am. To add to this though Mistress has said that "you have spent your life having the physical tools to not be intimidated". She may have a point but it's one that i struggle to understand.
Vulnerability however has been a struggle. It has been such a slow evolving process to truly give up and surrender to a woman no matter how strong my feelings are for Her. i believe that we build barriers around ourselves to protect us and sometimes it is difficult to lower them.
Trust, i think is the one thing that has allowed me to expose myself completely to Mistress, and trust takes time. We have been together for five years and it has been such a wonderful journey but for me to truly bare my soul has not been easy and i feel that if i had not reached the point of absolute faith in Her i would not have been able to expose my emotions so completely.
i find it incredible that i can be 6" taller than Mistress and 70lbs heavier and yet with a look i am nothing. It's great to be Her slave. *G*

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/18/2007 6:41:05 AM

aidan

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When I meet someone dominant that I like, I become...Not really shy, but a bit skittish, I suppose. I giggle a lot, my voice becomes softer, my stutter comes out a bit. It's not that I feel "I can be vulnerable around this person", it just kind of happens. If I feel that chemistry, it just happens, and almost every Dominant I've met who I had that reaction to has liked it. I enjoy it too. Anything that a Lady finds attractive about me I appreciate.

< Message edited by aidan -- 6/18/2007 6:42:17 AM >

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/18/2007 11:06:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
These are two qualities I absolutely adore in a man, and qualities that really feed my femdom lust. I'm curious how many other femdoms find these two to be attractive when combined, and how they impact their attraction to a man. For example, I have yet to hear of a femdom who would confess she is interested in "weak, simpering" men or pathetic worms.

I think the combination of these two are things that Mistress found attractive in me. She knows she can easily make me blush and enjoys that a great deal.

quote:

As for vulnerability, that's a tricky one. I am really interested in hearing how submissive men view vulnerability.

That's something of a difficult question to answer because it's rather complex. First, for me to submit to a woman, I need to feel as though I know her as a person and vice versa. To do that, I need to make myself vulnerable to her by sharing and opening myself to her. I'm a pretty open person about myself to begin with. The more trust that is built between us, the more vulnerable I can be and the more submissive I can be toward a woman, so in that sense it is like a spiral.

Being vulnerable beyond a certain point, as others have mentioned, also requires strength and self-confidence, just as it requires strength to be able to give up control and submit to another's will. Part of what further complicates the question of vulnerability that I've learned even more about of late, is that there's an attribute of it when it comes to D/s that men have a lot of difficulty acknowledging that exists within themselves which I think is a real turn on for Mistresses, at least I know it is for mine.

I'm speaking of what I call the "inner slut". To reveal that part of yourself to yourself, let alone anyone else takes a lot of courage for a man to do since it goes so much against the social programming and norms. Revealing that to a woman genuinely leaves a man vulnerable as it's something that a vanilla woman would typically reject. It can only be revealed to a dominant if one wants to be accepted as the submissive man they are on the inside. It takes strength of courage, knowledge of self, and confidence that you're okay with your submissiveness in order to be able to do that.

quote:

When are you able to feel vulnerable for a woman?

Only in limited degrees as trust is built.

quote:

What does vulnerability feel like?

Depends on the woman and her reaction. It can be very freeing when accepted and appreciated, or it can be very frightening when not acknowledged as a leap of faith that's been taken as a show of trust.

quote:

Are you unwilling to let yourself feel vulnerable to a woman you do not know?

No. I may be a pain slut at times, but I'm not an emotional masochist!

quote:

Have you ever gotten a sense that a femdom is attracted to your vulnerability or turned on by it?

Most definitely!

quote:

If so, how do you work to show it - to offer it, to allow it?

By revealing my "inner slut" without showing any shame or inhibitions; allowing myself to be totally hers.

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Strength and vulnerability - 6/18/2007 12:09:56 PM

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I view vunerability as a major requirement of intimacy. A sub/slave drops their outer personality and all the socialization armour showing their inner mental and emotional self to their Mistress/Master. Strength involves both the mental/emotional levels and the physical one. I prefer subs/slaves that are strong but yielding, those that know
themselves better are better able to submit to the will of a Mistress/Master.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

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