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Why not your wife? - 5/31/2005 3:16:06 PM

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This is serious question, and I think it would be great if people responded *without* getting into the issue of whether infidelity is right or wrong, what constitutes cheating, etc. -- that's been well addressed.

I am wondering how many people who are in an otherwise fine marriage seek an outside outlet for play, NOT because their partner has said adamantly no, or they know for certain they would say no -- but, instead, because they can't really get into the idea of playing with their married partner in that way.

In other words, take a man in his 40s who has been married happily for 15 years and now realizes he needs to explore his submissive side. Would his wife be his first choice as his femdom? When you are so close to someone and have seen them in a certain way all those years, is it hard for YOU to get into the idea that she could "become" that Mistress, or femdom that you think about? Does is seem unrealistic, because you don't think you'd get into or enjoy the experience because you know her so well?

Or is it the exact opposite, because of the closeness you share, and that the BDSM dynamic would be fresh and new?

Akasha

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RE: Why not your wife? - 5/31/2005 3:22:18 PM

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My guess is by that point they have a firm idea of what their wife is, can't possibly imagine them being something new, and are scared to take the risk directly.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Why not your wife? - 5/31/2005 3:27:23 PM

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A very interesting question, and if you get honest answers, I expect they're going to be complex. Unfortunately, questions like this one tend to elicit dishonest answers.

In my experience, most people who discover a submissive side (or a dominant side) and want to find someone outside their marriage have done so after coming to the conclusion that their spouse is unconvertibly vanilla. There's a lot of kneejerk condemnation around here--Why not just talk to your wife? Why not try to excite your wife? Why not respect your vows, asshole?--but I'm sure everyone would prefer to keep their d/s within their marriage if they COULD.

Then there are people--a minority, but I've known many people like this--who are honest with their spouses, discover that their spouses are NOT vanilla after all, but then find that they just can't connect with their spouses on a d/s level. For whatever reason. Having known each other for so long and having settled into a particular dynamic has a lot to do with it. It's pretty understandable for a sub not to be able to feel any kind of primal fear or sense of worship with his or her spouse. Usually, situations like this are not so bad, because even if such people have to find someone outside their marriage, the spouse can understand what is going on. Often the spouse actively participates.

Then there are people--a tiny minority--who are honest with their spouses, discover that their spouses are not vanilla, and then connect effortlessly with their spouses on a d/s level too. It happens, but, frankly, most of the people who've told me about it were lying to themselves, as they eventually discovered. It's great if it works--obviously it's the best of both worlds--but it's inherently rare. Most vanilla spouses are not really rabid d/s fiends who have been hiding in a vanilla body for 45 years.

Lam

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Why not your wife? - 5/31/2005 3:27:33 PM

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Although I'm neither married nor a male in his 40s, I'll take a stab on the dark at this one.

To me, different aspects of my Switchyness can only be fulfilled by different people. I absolutely adore my Master with all my heart, but I could never seriously Top him - trust me, I've tried and he just laughs at me and calls me cute for trying.

So, I would think that it's not an issue of infidelity, it's an issue of whether or not someone seems themselves as compatible submissively or Dominantly (yes, that's a word, damnit) to a certain person.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Why not your wife? - 5/31/2005 3:33:08 PM

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It's far easier to build a dynamic with someone new than it is to change the one you've had in place for years with your significant other, especially if the existing relationship has no real flaws in it beside it being vanilla. Factor in the fear of rejection, the fear of ruining a good (established) thing, causing upheaval in something that's already worked for so long by demanding something new and frightening and strange be introduced into it...

As someone who is married and who has recently decided to come out to her husband and who is trying to take the steps to move our established dynamic into something more D/s, I can say from an insider's point of view that it's a seductive thought, that this process could be easier, less painful, less nervewracking, less stress-inducing. Not to say I don't consider the effort worth it, even if it fails, or that I want to look outside of our marriage for any of this. But it certainly is a lot more difficult trying to re-create our relationship than it would be to build a new one.

Some people will always choose the easier route, simply because it is less painful- for themselves, for their loved one, for the people they come into contact with. I can certainly empathize with them for doing so, in this sort of scenario.

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RE: Why not your wife? - 5/31/2005 3:55:55 PM

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My take on it is a mix of what has already been said here. I've heard everything from "What? With the mother of my child?" to "But that might just mess up our whole dynamic". I think there are many rationales for this.

- LA

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RE: Why not your wife? - 5/31/2005 8:53:41 PM

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quote:

I am wondering how many people who are in an otherwise fine marriage seek an outside outlet for play, NOT because their partner has said adamantly no, or they know for certain they would say no -- but, instead, because they can't really get into the idea of playing with their married partner in that way.

I did that for about 2 yrs online and 6 mo in r/l. I never thought Hubby would understand so i hid it from Him. Turns out i was very wrong and He is now my Dom.

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RE: Why not your wife? - 5/31/2005 9:34:11 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

I am wondering how many people who are in an otherwise fine marriage seek an outside outlet for play, NOT because their partner has said adamantly no, or they know for certain they would say no -- but, instead, because they can't really get into the idea of playing with their married partner in that way.

I did that for about 2 yrs online and 6 mo in r/l. I never thought Hubby would understand so i hid it from Him. Turns out i was very wrong and He is now my Dom.

proud may be one of the rare few who made it work out in the end. And even she has said that she is teaching her husband to be her Master.
I am not one of the ones who jumps on the wagon and immediately wags fingers and says naughty boy. I do admit I have been more firm when I see a post (with the attending profile) that is blatently not about lifestyle, but more about, "help, I need a way to find some kinky sex, and I need you to tell Me it is alright!"
Aakasha's OP has made Me wonder if it might be a little easier for a lady to state she wants to be submissive and work up the courage to introduce hubby to the idea. After all, he is probably not going so far afield of the normal "manly man" role that he projects and has probably learned from birth.
But the boys who want to be submissive have a bigger problem. This is not what most people understand and if they have been in a traditional relationship for years, I can see that it could be harder for a wife to suddenly try to learn the Femdom role. Especially if it is more of a role for her, and she doesn't have the natural bent towards it.
So I wonder how many ladies have turned to spouses and said "I need to be submissive, and this is how it works" and the husbands will try to work it out, vs how many boys try to say to their wives, "I need to be submissive and that mean I need you to be Dominant and this is how it works. " I rather suspect it could be much scarier for that lady than for that (Dom) man.
I always do think that the best policy to try to to find a way to introduce the less threatening areas of D/s first, with a little BDSM for fun here and there, and approach with patience and caution. If it doesnt work out, then perhaps the wife will learn enough to participate in extra-marital activites, and still feel safe and secure. But most of the time, I think the boys are too scared to even try or they approach it all wrong. And it isn't easy to approach, even in the right way. I wasn't even trying to introduce FemDom into My marital relationship (no longer married), but just the idea of a fetish or two was totally scary and unacceptable to My (ex)spouse. So I can sympathize on both sides.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 5/31/2005 9:43:48 PM >

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RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 7:44:10 AM

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WOW ... in reading the question posed on this thread it was like looking in the mirror. Thats Me !!!!!

42 yrs old, happily married for 14 yrs. children. Always had a burning desire to explore my submissive side and have always read magazines, papers, books, whatever on this but have never really taken a step forward to get more into the D/s lifestyle.

First off, i really fear approaching the subject with my wife for fear of not having her understand or being totally put off by the idea and putting our relationship in jeopardy. It would be so easy to just go to a 'pro domme' and do the session thin but then there is the ... "cheating" aspect. I cant do that, it goes against my grain to cheat on my wife.

The closest thing i have come to this is corresponding with a woman a year ago who shared similar passions to my own ... basically we formed a friendshipt and she lived as a domme and allowed me into her world. Sadly she had passed away last year from an illness.

So here i sit ..... afraid to jeopardize my existing relationship by approaching the D/s life or trying to go out and find a domme outside of marriage .... which i dont think i can. All along with a burning desire to experience and become part of the D/s lifestyle.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 9:57:47 AM

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There are others who have made it work. Holly and I were together for awhile before we started switching with each other (and of course, at the time, we had no clue what it was we were doing, only that we both liked to be tied down and teased sometimes). We were still pretty vanilla for the first 3 years of our relationship but joked about getting houseboys/housebitches (depending on our moods). At the time, we had discussed the fact that neither of us were really monogamous, but we had never found anyone who we both liked well enough to do anything with. So then we started talking about the houseboy thing seriously, did a lot of online research, and did a LOT more talking. I do realise that our relationship is still pretty new compared to some others, but at the same time, it wasn't like we decided from day one (or day 50) that what we have now is what we were going to have. And what we have now is something that I wouldn't trade for the world - Holly is in charge, I sub to her, and the boy (boys if we can ever find one that won't wimp out at the last minute) subs to both of us.

(in reply to trampleonme)

RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 10:03:59 AM

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I think it can be hard to turn to your spouse after years of being together. I personally think that it's always worth the try to see if the other person would be interested, but it can get complicated.

For one, all it takes is one suggestion "would you like to try...." to have your spouse look at you like you are a freak. And who can go back to feeling unconditionally loved & accepted when that happens?

Another reason it would be difficult is because some people are very happy to 'try to please' but are horrible actors and then the whole thing leaves a bad memory because not only did it not feel real, it felt ridiculous. And that turns into embarrassment and makes the marrital bedroom scene more awkward for quite a while.

Then, of course, the last thing someone wants to do is make their spouse (whom they love a great deal) to feel inadequate. Just because I have voiced my sub tendencies to my hubby, he feels like he has been less of a man to me because I'm not getting what I need in that arena - that makes him feel bad, and makes me feel bad. I love him, I don't want to hurt him.

Just some reasons why some people would consider it (regardless of morallity or infidelity issues). But I do think that in some situations when people are really close, they can turn into the best doms or subs for their spouse, because, like you said, their spouse could know them better than anyone else and that could make for a perfect transition/change.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 10:15:59 AM

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There could be several reasons of why not your spouse. Last month I interviewed a submissive married
woman. Her husband knows that she is submissive, but he too is a submissive, so they each look for
thier D/S satisfaction outside.

I have a male friend that has a wife that has health problems and they have no sex life at all now because
of her issues, but he has in the past had a lover and I expect he may have one now as well. While this
is not D/S it shows the complexity of things.

I suspect that there are plenty of logical reasons, and that every situation is different, so it is best not to condem
as you might be in the same situation one day. At the very least you might feel very guilty when you
find that the
person finding satisfaction outside the marriage has a partner that is in such bad health that any sex or D/S
play is not an option.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 11:00:42 AM

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I have an unfortunate anecdote to share about the subject at hand. One of my ex subs had always said that his wife was too vanilla and would never understand his needs, and that even bringing them up with her would make him "sick" in her eyes. I didn't believe that just a mild mention of alternate sex would be a problem.. until his wife caught him in the bathroom with a dildo and almost divorced him. Since they have a daughter, she allowed him to save his marriage by attending therapy to get rid of his sickness. *sighs*

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RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 11:25:39 AM

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And unfortunately, until a lot of work can be done to open people's minds, there are always going to be stories like this.

But that doesn't mean that everyone is like that. I know of more people who got up the courage to mention it to their S.O. just to find out that their S.O. had the same/similar desires but was afraid of mentioning it than people who have had experiences like Beach's former sub.

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RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 11:49:40 AM

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I sometimes wish I had a wife just so I could ask her.

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RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 3:16:05 PM

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I don't. I know of MANY people who had that experience, but not MOST. Most find that their spouses are, as they expected, vanilla. Most people are vanilla, after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I know of more people who got up the courage to mention it to their S.O. just to find out that their S.O. had the same/similar desires but was afraid of mentioning it than people who have had experiences like Beach's former sub.

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RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 3:41:29 PM

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Me and my hubby have been together for 10 years , I have only really explored bdsm for 3 or 4 years . He knows what i do and slowly has gotten into some of the things I like.
BUT even tho he is what I look for in a dom I just can not submit to him in the way I can to others. The respect thing is not there.
Lucky for us we have a great relationship and im free to explore diffrent options under his guidence.
But I can completly understand not feeling comfortable showing that side of you.I think a lot of it for me is he is not into it as much as I am so im pretty much teaching him I like people who are more experenced. I also worry he thinks what I want to do is silly or is not into it and is just doing it to please me.Lastly I like having my own private fantasy world.........
I think you should include the person in your fantasy and see where it goes. once i started sharing with my husband i was surprised that when he shared some of his fantasy ideas, He may not be into bdsm physicaly like me but he likes to watch

Good Luck

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RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 10:38:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I don't. I know of MANY people who had that experience, but not MOST. Most find that their spouses are, as they expected, vanilla. Most people are vanilla, after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I know of more people who got up the courage to mention it to their S.O. just to find out that their S.O. had the same/similar desires but was afraid of mentioning it than people who have had experiences like Beach's former sub.

What I meant (and I thought I had said) was - I know of more people that had it work out, than those who were threatened with divorce over it. I know that most people are vanilla - thus it is vanilla - but that doesn't mean that everyone who is vanilla threatened their spouse with a "go to therapy to be cured or I'm divorcing you" ultimatum.

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RE: Why not your wife? - 6/1/2005 11:17:59 PM

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That's a little different.

What I think is most common is that the vanilla spouse accepts it, but puts it into a box, tries never to think about it, and wishes it had never happened. We hear a lot about cases where the spouse turned out to be a willing participant, but I think there's a major selection bias: those are the stories we're most apt to hear because those are the stories that people can tell (among other kinks, at least) with the least fear of stigma. And, as I've said, I know a lot of people who thought they were in this situation, but discovered later that they were lying to themselves.

What exactly is a man supposed to do if he is married to a vanilla, has a child, and then discovers that he's a kink? Divorce means he's not going to get custody of his kids. (At least wives have the option of getting divorced and keeping their children.) OK, yeah, he should talk to his wife, but then what? Odds are she's vanilla and has been vanilla all along. How is that going to work out? Oh, and then there's useful advice like "Well, ya shouldnta gotten married then." That's really helpful AFTER the fact.

Lam

Edited to add: Yay, I just noticed I have four handcuffs now.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 6/1/2005 11:18:54 PM >

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RE: Why not your wife? - 6/2/2005 3:04:02 AM

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Barbie and I tried it before we were married. We both had experience as both top and bottom. We moved in together. I was the top and the play was fun...it still is and YES we do play; but our relationship is and will continue to be non D/s. Why you ask? Simple; it is too much WORK. Trying to negotiate the ON/OFF switch of the D/s relationship with our "normal" life was just too much of a strain.

She now has her "slutpuppy" and I have 2 subs. danielle has been with me since she was 19; susan since her 45th birthday. Both are now entering their 3rd year of service. Neither lives with us and that is the way we prefer things.

Find what works for you as a couple and ignore the naysayers. BTW, we have little tolerance for "cheaters".

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