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Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 2:19:56 PM

SamEscapes

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/29/2004
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I had my only real life session 7 months ago.

During the second 1/2 of the session the Domme put on Clover Clamps as I was tied down and gagged (approx. 1 hour I think because I know it was at least 2 gregorian chants on CD, several minutes of another part where I had to dance to a song in heels, and 10 minutes of something else) .

I had never had anything but clothespins on them for 5-8 minutes while playing with others on cam. (We had always been careful.) This hour was with no break, and they hurt like fire when they came off.

They hurt really bad for a day and I lost almost all the feeling about a day and a half later (except for pain flashes in the left one in cold weather.)

Are my nipples dead? Will they ever come back?  Is there anything I can do about this?

Thank You in advance,    Sam-

< Message edited by SamEscapes -- 6/12/2007 2:22:15 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 3:48:46 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

ahhhhhh this is where the thread ended up

I answered it in two other locations just prior to getting yanked... in fact I'm thinking this one will go poof or land in Health & Safety

At any rate... after 7 months & still no feeling, you've done permanent nerve damage. Never should that degree of pressure for that long a period ever be sustained. You're lucky the blood flow still made it to the vital areas or you would have ended up with something far worse. No nipples at all!

Now would be the perfect time to make a list of "other things I should know before playing".

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

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RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 4:05:37 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Makes note to use an eggtimer or something..

Okay, how long is safe Maam ?

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Post #: 3

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 4:10:54 PM

LongTerm24C

Posts: 31
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline

Perhaps this would have been a good time for the safeword?

What you may have had happen, because of the extended clamp time is the nerve ends were crushed. They will never rebuild themselves, without a medical intervention. Thus the pain during cold weather.
See a doctor.

(in reply to SamEscapes)

Post #: 4

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 4:21:29 PM

onmykneesforhim

Posts: 112
Joined: 6/18/2006
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i wouldn't play with her anymore, poor nipples.
Isnt this like a limit to some people?

< Message edited by onmykneesforhim -- 6/12/2007 4:22:35 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 4:47:40 PM

SamEscapes

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/29/2004
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Thank You very much Ma'am.

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Post #: 6

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 4:51:21 PM

SamEscapes

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/29/2004
Status: offline

Well this was a friend of mine I finally talked into giving me a session. I didn't think about it beforehand and we didn't discuss limits except for abbout a year earlier.

At the time I had been very afraid of anything there and did get her to agree to not having a clothesline.

The year later I didn't think about it at all before the session. :(

Thank You

(in reply to onmykneesforhim)

Post #: 7

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 4:52:47 PM

SamEscapes

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/29/2004
Status: offline

I saw a nurse right afterwards. She told me to not do anything with them for 6 months. If there was anything after 6 months it was permanent.

I guess I am stuck. I may go see someone again. Thank You.

(in reply to LongTerm24C)

Post #: 8

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 4:57:48 PM

realisticwish

Posts: 137
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline

My experience and mine only....

I was told early on that no more than 20 minutes in the same place. Others have told me 10 minutes. Clover clamps are different from clothespins of course still the 10-20 minute rule should apply. Coming from someone that has had surgery on her breasts and the nipples removed and re-attached I can say for a fact it took in the past a lot of attention to feel anything. They have even been bleeding in rough play and I was not aware of it. So be careful.

As a Domme now, when I use any type of clip, clamp, etc. I make it a priority to always keep an eye on the clock and watch for color changes as well. Nothing better than flicking them off with a crop but that is another story.

~J~

(in reply to SamEscapes)

Post #: 9

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 7:10:52 PM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
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A nipple clamp is like a tourniquet. It cuts off the blood supply to the cells and they die. The guideline for tourniquets is 10 minutes. But you also have to take into account other factors that might affect blood flow like diabetes, medications and smoking. I always err on the conservative side, ie 10 minutes. Then I stimulate the nipple by sucking it or rubbing it briskly. This not only restores blood supply, but increases the pain, evil snicker. A hard clamp used for a short time is more effective than a softer one used longer as far as pain goes.

:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

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RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 8:04:23 PM

MissOchistic

Posts: 315
Joined: 4/30/2007
Status: offline

The standard I have heard from most people who do WIITWD and several producers of clamps is 10 minutes per spot, and never more than 20.

Yes, you've done permanent damage. I do believe that there are ways to reattach nerve endings nowadays, however, being that your nipple is not a movable part like an arm or leg which this procedure has previously been done on, I don't know that it returns any feeling and don't see that it would help you.

From now on, I suggest a thorough discussion of limits and safety before a session with a new partner, or before a new activity with an old one.

_____________________________

"The amount i care for Thee
is more than two, but less than three."

"Submission is a potlatch."

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 11

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 9:12:26 PM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

{hides clothespins and rubs nipples} OUCH is all I can say. After about 10 or 15 mins I am ready for them to be off, I learned the hard to NOT rub them; I have worn a nipple chain on my nipples with some pressure all day for work, and had no bad effects, then again, it was not tight, just minimal pressure, I was able to slip the chain off without much difficulty.

Looks like a hard lesson learned and a warning to others. THIS is why safewords are a good thing.

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"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to MissOchistic)

Post #: 12

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 9:27:19 PM

SamEscapes

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/29/2004
Status: offline

Thank You all. .....yes....we didn't discuss safe words or limits. It was my first session and we had discussed that a long time earlier before the agreement to have a session. I have not had one since and yesterday...I realized it had been 7 months and the nurse had said to wait 6 months...and whatever did not come back was not going to.

I had some past experiences that drove me to experiment with self-bondage for some years....I had a problem and it made me come out and try to include others to help me.....and the person who did this had initially refused years before. When I finally convinced her after playing online and through phone for a while.....we didn't discuss limits. I was so glad to get the session with someone I trusted as a person with my other demons I didn't think about it at all.

She knew I was terminally afraid of a clothesline jerking something off of them, we had worked that out. I had also told her I didn't want to ever have them on like that and she had said she would be careful of that with me. That was in a conversation 6 mo to a year before. But that was a while before.

I am just down about it. I just had to ask everyone to see if there was anything that could be done. I really appreciate the advice for others. (I personally will probably never play in real life again, and in any case my nipples are completely off limits forever even if I can't feel them now.)

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 13

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/12/2007 10:56:34 PM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SamEscapes(I personally will probably never play in real life again, and in any case my nipples are completely off limits forever even if I can't feel them now.)

I had a look at your profile and appears that you are continuing to play on line. So my comment is this. Even though the damage was done in a real time session, if you are playing on line, you could just as easily inflict damage upon yourself. The lesson to take away from this experience is not "real time is not safe" but "ignorance is not safe." I encourage you to put as much time into self education as possible so you know what you are getting into at all times. The fact that you had a bad first time experience is very sad, but it's not a reason to isolate yourself from the real world. In fact, reading your post, it appears that the session was really good, apart from the long term consequences. That's something to evaluate as well - was the rest of what you did in a sense "worth" it?
:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

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Post #: 14

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/13/2007 12:53:07 AM

SamEscapes

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/29/2004
Status: offline

Thank You for reading my profile and my older journal about that. I really appreciate you wanting to know that to help me out.

That experience was written up one day after the session and I didn't know what they were not coming back at the time. ....In "online" my nipples have been severely off limits for that ever since and I really went on a long hiatus from playing after that in any way for a while afterwards. (In answer to your question: If I had known I was going to pay for the rest of my life with a lot less feeling somewhere....I would not have had that session. Even though it was something I needed to do to face some old demons.)

You are complely right that ignorance was not safe...I did know what I was getting into....there was just so many different things going on at the time. It was very intense. (Plus I was bound and gagged during the first 20-30 minutes of them being on...and it led into the other 2 scenes where I was being photographed for a friend and then punished for something.... There were 4 scenes total in the session.)

I just met someone new online a couple weeks ago so I am starting to play again. We are spending hours on the phone each day. That's what made me even think of it. (The same person that did this to me (we still know each other....but will never play again) suggested I meet local people and go to munches around here...and it hit a real nerve. I seriously considered going to the doctors again...but wanted to post here first.)

Thank you LadyHeart. I really appreciate it.

[note: on education, I don't put it in my profile but I do have over 20 years experience as a self-bonder, and I probably know "more than most" there. I did timed things, situational, situational with chance of discovery, sensory deprivation during situational, ect... things like that. I pushed the edge because of the thrill and was running out of room there. I came out in 2004 to the community, contracted someone for online/phone, and she broke me from ever doing that again.]

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 15

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/13/2007 1:09:20 AM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I really wish you well, sam. Best of luck with your new play partner. For me, education is a continuing process. Someone once said to me, it's the things that you don't know you don't know that really get you into trouble. How true!
:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to SamEscapes)

Post #: 16

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/13/2007 4:40:01 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

Actually, while it's unlikely, the nerve damage could reverse. You should see a neurologist or somesuch about it, if you haven't already.

A friend of mine, falling from a high place, grabbed on to the only thing he could to stop himself from falling to a likely demise. That thing was the exhaust pipe for the diesel engines powering a large boat, and the last his nerves told him was "zap". Since that, he's never been able to feel heat in his hands, and has had reduced sensitivity to other things.

Recently, several years later, he accidentally picked up a hot grille without the protective gloves. And said "hey, this is hot." So we said "well, yeah, duh." And he replied "no, you don't get it; I can feel that it's hot again."

Might not want to give up hope, though I wouldn't rely on it.

As for returning to the scene, more carefully this time, I'd just say "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 17

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/14/2007 7:00:31 PM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

Ahhh Hummm.. almost sounds like it was the Dommes first real life session as well. Clover Clamps and for how long? Since I'm maso, I tend to experiment on myself first with a few things. Helps me get a better grasp on WTF I'm doing as well. I get an approximate Guage for the sensations as well.

If anything I'm somewhat impatient to reach the right/perfect time limit so I can remove clamps! You know where the other person gets to experience the sensation of feeling returning. Tingles and all the fun stuff. That's 1/2 the reason for playing with clamps, at least for me.

I'm more along the lines of the 10 min crowd here! about 2-3 commercial radio length songs and those things are coming off.

In terms of nerve damage it may or may never heal. May only partially heal, the body is a funny thing. Might take a few years to heal.

Have you let this Domme know about this, so nobody else becomes a victim to her scene play?

(in reply to SamEscapes)

Post #: 18

Just diagnosed nipple nerve damage - 6/15/2007 10:13:23 AM

sasshay

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline

I posted here somewhere about the piercing pain I'd been feeling the last week. Feels like a needle being jabbed into the middle of my left nipple. Then moved into the whole breast and into my back and ribs. The pain is off and on. Not incessant. Thankfully. Dr. said it was nerve damage. I love hard breast play. I've been suckled by a few men. I breastfed my children. I can't find anything about the subject on search engines. Can anyone suggest a site? Oh yeah, they did a sonogram on my abdomen and I have a cyst on my right ovary. Will do a follow up in 2 months to monitor for changes.

Thanks in advance,
shay

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It's not the size of the dog in the fight
it's the size of the fight in the dog.
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(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 19

RE: Do Nipples ever come back? - 6/16/2007 1:07:32 PM

SamEscapes

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/29/2004
Status: offline

Thank You Whiplash, It was not her first experience. This person has been a Pro near where I live. She has done sessions on a lot of people before over the years. (She just did not want to session me for a long time in r/t and I fainally convinced her to do it. I had a bad experience as a kid that caused me to self-bond for a long time with timers, and situational. Actually when I first contacted her I did not ever want a r/t session and after talking to her I did and I still do not know why.)

I did tell her when we were talked on earlier occaions (I know of at least 3) that I never wanted anything on more than 10 minutes.....when we discussed different play that after hearing about things like a clothesline....[I got her to agree to never to that because it was a real hard-limit fear for me.] She never said she wouldn't put anything on that long. As a matter of fact I don't remember her ever saying anything at that point most times.

We didn't talk right before the session about it itself. I was so happy to finally be able to do this I didn't think about it.

In any case....If I had it to do over again I would not trust me just telling this person "I really did not want something on me over 10 minutes. I don't want damage there". I would get her to actually agree to not do it. Specifically not "I would never do that", but "I will not do that to you".

[I tried to talk to her 2 days later when they did not feel 'right' and she told me to give it some time and that they weren't on that long. (I saw the clock during the second 2 parts so I now it was 15 min for them. The flogging before that where I was blindfolded was longer) The sub in me made me just wait to see a doctor. .....I wish I had not done that either. [I was also told "You play you pay" during that conversation. Which makes me think she might have realized the time at that point.]

Now that I have stopped talking to this person for a little while I am no longer in that mindset. I have sent a message to a Nurse here in the lifestyle to ask about this (and that she not tell others vanilla or otherwise.) My new domme (by phone, I'm not doing r/t again) is contacting her mentor who has a doctor in the lifestyle. She is also contacting her own doctor. I am going to talk to a nurse I know on Monday who knows of a doctor in the lifestyle who helped someone we both know and who is also very discrete. But, reading everyone's thoughts....there is probably nothing that can be done.]

I really appreciate everyone posting on this. Thank you.

< Message edited by SamEscapes -- 6/16/2007 1:31:18 PM >

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 20

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