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RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/14/2007 3:40:23 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zindyslave

I have one question when one is in a mixed state can it feel to that person like they are 'normal' like their moods are in the right ranges and that they can function normally?

That isn't, clincially speaking, a mixed state.

A mixed state is full-blown depression and full-blown mania at the same time.

That is mutually exclusive with functioning normally.

quote:

Just wondering cause I have felt 'normal' quite a bit, when I wasn't on meds.

It isn't uncommon for bipolar patients to be normal for large segments of time without meds.

Unfortunately, neither is it uncommon for them to feel normal when manic or hypomanic.

(Not saying that's the case for you, just that you should be aware that you might not be able to tell if it were.)

Some of the best advice I've heard in that regard, is that if one would like to be off the meds, one should make a Advance Mental Health Care Directive, and have someone one trusts to make the judgment call about whether one is becoming manic, as well as that person having the option of enacting inpatient treatment if one does not listen.

When an episode is starting, it is possible (albeit risky) to use a "loading dose" to ramp up the medication quickly, possibly along with an antipsychotic, in order to preempt the episode, and then stay on the maintenance dose for a few months.

This wouldn't work for everyone, though.

quote:

[...]I can however add that I as being bi-polar and in the lifestyle that it actually helps me and I love it.[...]

With proper care, mental illness and neurological problems can work fine in a BDSM relationship.

In some cases, it can even make the relationship a whole lot better.

But judging that online is beyond "hard". Which is why I suggested a Kink Aware Professional.

For me, I have no problem with taking on someone with certain kinds of problems, but I know my limits, and there are some things I would not take on. I'd probably take on bipolar, though I'd have to study it more in-depth first. I have taken on MDD, GAD, PAD, OCD, SID, ADD, and Asperger.

The poster didn't seem too confident, though, so I didn't assume the skills were present.

Hence, KAPs are a good idea.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to zindyslave)

Post #: 21

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/14/2007 7:31:38 AM

zindyslave

Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline

What I was asking lilacs was what the previous posters had said about a 'mixed state'. I was wondering if what I had felt was a mixed state since I had never seen a definition of it. I don't go off my meds for no reason there for awhile when I couldn't get to the Doc I was off of them. My bi-polar isn't as bad as some I have heard of. I don't hear or see things that aren't there, my main problem when not on meds is the mood swings those are the only problems I have. I don't go on shopping sprees because mainly I don't have the money and I have no credit cards so I can't. Which is a good thing. Even on my meds I end up buying things I don't need when I have the money to do so. I was a few months ago having problems with my mood stabilizer and I noticed it and told my doctor that is why I am now on two. For anyone with bi-polar it most likely takes a while to find the right meds. My husband was diagnosed a few months ago with bi-polar and he still hasn't found the right meds the one thing that did work was causing extreme weight gain and his physical health in my opinion comes first. (These are just my experiences tho)

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Post #: 22

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/14/2007 10:11:45 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zindyslave

I was wondering if what I had felt was a mixed state since I had never seen a definition of it.

Probably not, if you're inclined to describe it as "normal".

quote:

For anyone with bi-polar it most likely takes a while to find the right meds.

The bipolar überspazzen at CrazyMeds indicate that one should expect 2 years or so.

Of course, they are a bit atypical in many regards.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to zindyslave)

Post #: 23

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/14/2007 7:27:56 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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Not all bipolars suffer from mania. My oldest cycled suicidal depression and anger every five minutes prior to the meds. The only time she ever had true hypomania was when she was tried out on Prozac. She has never suffered a manic episode. She has never been delusional or psychotic.

With others, who cycle much more slowly, yes you can feel normal between cycles. The problem with going off the meds is that when you start to cycle again, you won't be able to identify it or build up the medication level fast enough to stop the cycling.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 24

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/14/2007 10:25:25 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

My oldest cycled suicidal depression and anger every five minutes prior to the meds.

I've heard some docs discuss rage as a manifestation of mania.

But what you describe seems more like a mixed state.

That is sometimes mistaken for cycling, and sometimes treated with atypical antipsychotics.

Of course, in children and adolescents, bipolar can be quite atypical, and I haven't read up on pediatric psychiatry.

Has she been evaluated for other neurological conditions?

quote:

The only time she ever had true hypomania was when she was tried out on Prozac. She has never suffered a manic episode. She has never been delusional or psychotic.

SSRIs have been known to cause that, yes. Has she tried other antidepressants?

Sometimes there is a paradoxically positive response to CNS stimulants and/or catecholamine reuptake inhibitors (e.g. reboxetine (NE), amineptine (DA), bupropion (both)), but I don't recall what the predictors for that are. Most doctors who try it seem to do so in an inpatient setting so they can avoid any risks, with less attention to predictors, though I recall there was one fellow who had studied it quite extensively.

Controversially, the Amen Clinics use SPECT imaging as an aid in determining these things; I've heard good feedback from people who go there. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the traditional approach in the long run.

quote:

With others, who cycle much more slowly, yes you can feel normal between cycles.

~nod~

quote:

The problem with going off the meds is that when you start to cycle again, you won't be able to identify it or build up the medication level fast enough to stop the cycling.

Identifying it is not reliable, but regular follow-ups, advance mental health care directives, and a trusted friend to keep an eye out for the initial stages, can mitigate the risks somewhat. If someone really doesn't want to be on the meds, this can be an option sometimes, but it's definitely not risk-free.

As for stopping the cycling, a manic episode can sometimes be brought under control with an initial "loading dose", or concomittant administration of antipsychotics. But that doesn't seem to be general practice, and isn't always viable. Also, not all mood stabilizers can be given in a "loading dose"; the most common appears to be Depakote / Depakene / Orfiril.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 25

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/15/2007 6:54:00 PM

LadyInControl

Posts: 30
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline

Thanks everyone for the discussion. I will add a few observations that may or may not help out.
He would go from literally jumping around and singing happy to an extreme anger where he was hitting himself in the face hard.
He would usually be happy in my presence but would sometimes hide in very small dark spaces for hours and when ready for someone to find him he would make his pet noises.
He did not have delusions, as far as I'm aware, but would have a flash of a disturbing image randomly pop into his head and that would freak him out and send him into a depressed mood.
He had no concentration, was not interested in his hobbies, had panic attacks, but those things are sadly normal to me too.
I did not feel I had the knowledge to deal with it in case he ever did freak out and really start hurting himself so I agreed to release him for the time being and he is in treatment. I am hoping he will return to me but that is still unknown.
Thanks again for the responses!
~LadyInControl

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 26

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/16/2007 3:42:54 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

You're welcome.

As I said, my advice would be to contact a Kink Aware Professional (google it) for advice.

I'm glad to hear he is getting treatment now, as he obviously wasn't coping very well without it. After his medications have stabilized, he should be a suited partner. A Kink Aware Professional can tell you whether it would be useful / helpful for him to be in your care while he is receiving treatment.

HTH.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to LadyInControl)

Post #: 27

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/19/2007 4:28:02 PM

curvyslavegirl

Posts: 134
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Actually studies show that BDSM participants are on par with the population.
Another study found that Australian men who are dominant tend to be MORE happy :)

Heres a link to the research

http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=HPT68TB24MG28LBSTV7WRTL6NAH91M20&ID=81674

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/kinky-you-cant-beat-it/2007/04/16/1176696736407.html

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 28

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/19/2007 9:46:20 PM

DragonNphoenix

Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Actually, 10 years ago ALL bipolar disorders were termed Manic Depression. Manic Depression is simply the old terminology. Now we have it broken down into Bipolar I, II, III and Cyclothymic Disorder...all of which are Bipolar disorders.

FYI, in Bi-polar type II (which I have) the manic episodes can come out as rage, anger or aggression. Not just the 'umber happy' feelings that are usually associated with a manic episode.

Just thought that I would give my 2 cents, speaking from experience.

1st girl Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 29

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/19/2007 10:04:21 PM

DragonNphoenix

Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyInControl

I would like to add to this by asking the opinion of those that have posted. I had a pet that requested release and got out of the lifestyle as he "could not feel stable" no matter what he did or what I did. I am wondering if, short of professional help (which he had and was diagnosed bi-polar) anyone has feelings on a right or wrong way to handle a sub with these issues, or if it is in their best interest to deal with the issue outside of the lifestyle.

Greetings Lady... I am a slave to Master Dragon Stormwolf. I have been in his care for about 3 1/2 years. With that said, I also have Bi-polar type II (with suicidal depression), panic/anxiety disorder, agoraphobia, fibromyalgia, diebetes type 2 and ranualds. My Master has seen me at my worst (2 suicide attempts, one in June 2006 and one in Feburary 2007), but also my best. He has read, researched and asked every question under the sun of my Dr.s. He has been my rock. Please, feel free to contact him. He might be able to shed some light on the questions that you are having. I would love to give you some pearls of wisdom, but being that I am the one with the problems, I can only give you my side.

We deal with each day as it comes. There are times, when I am out of sorts, that we do not do any physical play. Mostly because I drop rather hard after and he does not want those added emotions ontop of a shakey state. He makes sure that I see my Dr.s and take all my meds on time. He makes sure that I get enough sleep, that I dont go off my diet (diebetes and all) and that I take time each day for 'self-care' (sometimes that may mean just a long hot shower). A great deal of the time, he puts my mental and physical needs ahead of his desires. There are days when the depression or the pain from the fibromyalgia are so bad, I go from the bed to the couch and do not much else. On those days, He will do things for me, ie get me a cup of coffee or lunch. I am truely blessed to be His. But, to leave the lifestyle all together? No, that would be like cutting off my own arm. Not something that this slave could do.

I hope for the best for You and Yours. Please, do not hesitate to contact us.

1st girl Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

(in reply to LadyInControl)

Post #: 30

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 6/19/2007 10:07:06 PM

DragonNphoenix

Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Also, not all mood stabilizers can be given in a "loading dose"; the most common appears to be Depakote / Depakene / Orfiril.

Another common med for bi-polar is Tegratol. Sometimes Dr.s will give Tegratol with another mood stabilizer called Abilify.

1st girl Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 31

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 8/1/2008 6:28:09 PM

g1024

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/27/2008
Status: offline

I recently ended a relationship with a bi polar individual.Or should I say she ended it with me. I offered her my home and my friendship. she was here for two days and the she said her son of 26 was in the ER. needed to be stabilized and sent home. I live in Oregon. I sent her to pick up her son and bring him here. And he was in mas general.
Needless to say I opened a can of worms. he was diabetic and not taking care of himself. but mooching on mom, and an army deserter to boot.
To cut a long story short. do NOT. under ANY circumstances get involved with a bi polar.Nothing I did was good it was all my fault ect.....yes i am bitter. I came home from work and she and her son were gone. she even took the sheets of of the bed. and then had enough clit to I m me and say she wanted to be friends! not to mention she drained the bank account.
Gregory

(in reply to NoirUMC)

Post #: 32

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 8/1/2008 7:01:22 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: g1024

I recently ended a relationship with a bi polar individual.Or should I say she ended it with me. I offered her my home and my friendship. she was here for two days and the she said her son of 26 was in the ER. needed to be stabilized and sent home. I live in Oregon. I sent her to pick up her son and bring him here. And he was in mas general.
Needless to say I opened a can of worms. he was diabetic and not taking care of himself. but mooching on mom, and an army deserter to boot.
To cut a long story short. do NOT. under ANY circumstances get involved with a bi polar.Nothing I did was good it was all my fault ect.....yes i am bitter. I came home from work and she and her son were gone. she even took the sheets of of the bed. and then had enough clit to I m me and say she wanted to be friends! not to mention she drained the bank account.
Gregory

Almost the same damn thing just happened to me, except she wasn't living with me, and she didn't take anything. But people like that, who go from "You're fab! Fantastic! I love you!" on a Thursday to "I can't have a relationship just now, I have to take care of myself, and so so you, so goodbye" two days later, well, they will really fuck your head up if you let them. My anger lasted about 2 days or so. I can't stay angry because I realize she has an illness. Suffice it to say that we both burned some bridges.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to g1024)

Post #: 33

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 8/1/2008 7:29:25 PM

g1024

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/27/2008
Status: offline

Save yourself a lot of grief and avoid one with by polar at any cost.
Gregory

(in reply to NoirUMC)

Post #: 34

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 8/2/2008 4:14:10 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

Perhaps a very good idea, don't do what I did recently, stop the meds, the result was a condition akin to satyrisis and a feeling of being ultra happy and full of life, with sleeping for a few hours when the need came , no longer than two hours at a time every few days. I even stuffed up my college exams by having a panic issue and nearly quit the course on exam day. That was my first panic issue since the very beginning of the meds, so it came as a surprise.

I came off the meds too quickly, i.e. was forgetting to take them, so was missing a dose every now and again until the point where I ran out and was so apathetic I didn't resupply. Things were coming together at that point in my life and I was happy. I had also met someone who was interested and aware of my condition, it pleased me they were researching the possible problems, an indication that this person cared. So I felt I didn't need the meds, they had served their purpose, how wrong I was.

What I was told when I got my bollicking from my doc, was that coming off the meds can release all the subdued feelings in force, satyrisis being very common. Satyrisis was the reason I went back to the doc, for it was driving me nuts. So, back on the meds now and I feel so calm, relaxed and clear thinking for a very long time, I spent a few weeks away from here, CM and pursued other interests, they being Iyengar Yoga and Belly Dance, things that I have found to be very beneficial, with health and alignment issues, I am fitter now than I have ever been and loving it, but there are areas I won't go into and think that is best for the time being.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 8/2/2008 4:41:59 AM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to g1024)

Post #: 35

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 8/2/2008 12:21:00 PM

wandersalone

Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: g1024

I recently ended a relationship with a bi polar individual.Or should I say she ended it with me. I offered her my home and my friendship. she was here for two days and the she said her son of 26 was in the ER. needed to be stabilized and sent home. I live in Oregon. I sent her to pick up her son and bring him here. And he was in mas general.
Needless to say I opened a can of worms. he was diabetic and not taking care of himself. but mooching on mom, and an army deserter to boot.
To cut a long story short. do NOT. under ANY circumstances get involved with a bi polar.Nothing I did was good it was all my fault ect.....yes i am bitter. I came home from work and she and her son were gone. she even took the sheets of of the bed. and then had enough clit to I m me and say she wanted to be friends! not to mention she drained the bank account.
Gregory

Someone who was in your home for two days had access to your bank account?

_____________________________

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King
Godmother of the subbie mafia
My all time favourite threads
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2002501
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(in reply to g1024)

Post #: 36

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 8/2/2008 12:24:08 PM

wandersalone

Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

It is good to see you back Aneirin. Medication can be a trap in that when a person starts feeling better they believe that they don't require the medication anymore and as you found out, when they stop taking it.... the problems return. I hope things continue to improve for you.

_____________________________

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King
Godmother of the subbie mafia
My all time favourite threads
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2002501
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=790885

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 37

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 8/2/2008 1:10:54 PM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

It is good to see you back Aneirin. Medication can be a trap in that when a person starts feeling better they believe that they don't require the medication anymore and as you found out, when they stop taking it.... the problems return. I hope things continue to improve for you.

Why, thankyou Wandersalone for your kind words, it is very much appreciated.

Unfortunately, as a very dear friend can testify, I am not one of those people that learn by others mistakes, and there, their instructions, I just have to find out for myself. So, now I know and that lesson sits hard in my mind, I have learned by my own mistakes and I am ever watchful now.

The odd thing is, before when I was on the meds, I resented the things for what they did in dulling the senses and killing the desires, but now, after my little lesson, I am so dilligent in taking the things, for at least now I can sleep every night, albight for four hours, but it is better than what it was.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to wandersalone)

Post #: 38

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 8/2/2008 3:27:06 PM

l1z

Posts: 7
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline

i confess i'm a bit of a newbie but i had to drop into this thread and ask a question. Does anyone know which opinion is held by the majority? i mean there was the beautiful post about having a Master who understood and helped with all her issues but it was immediately followed by two angry posts that generalized us all as monsters. Is no one going to want me because i'm diagnosed?

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 39

RE: Mental health issues and BDSM? - 8/2/2008 3:47:55 PM

angelwithhonor

Posts: 193
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline

....being bi polar and disabled with it..its been a hard road this past year. finally got my ssd aproved. but now i am no longer able to afford the docs visits or my meds now. they put me on a spendown, which is to high for me to manage now. i need my meds, they truly help with the manic panic and up down swings. and gaining weight ohhhhh yeah, wondered why i was gaining. and a quick comment to g1024.. i understand the bitterness, but you know what . you could get that from a person not bipolar. i have alot to offer to a Dominant. and remember it is a disability for some who have manic and bipolar. but live healthy loving serving lifes.

(in reply to l1z)

Post #: 40

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