RE: Limit or Preference

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becca333 -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/16/2007 11:43:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav i will do it if He tells me to...and when He tells me to....but i won't like it...Master will not know that i don't like it, because all He will see is me...smiling... Does your Master value honesty? Does he wish for you to be honest with him? Do you feel that would be honest? yes...thats honest...Master already knows how i feel...but i will do it because i want to please Him and by obeying Him and pleasing Him...that in and of itself will bring me pleasure and satisfaction...so no...He will not see displeasure in my face ..or anything resembling it...because it dosent belong there. One of my definitions of a good Master or Dom is that he knows and respects your limits, and DOES NOT ask you to cross them to gratify himself. I think you need to be very careful, you're each pushing the other to cross hard limits, you're setting precedents that will cause problems in the future. And to me it shows a lack of respect of each other, and of the relationship, to act this way. It's fine to push limits if you both support each other in that idea, and to revisit them now and then to see how you've grown and changed, but this seems like some kind of bargaining to me - "I'll do that for you if you do this for me" - a way for each of you to force the other to do things they really don't want to do. Is this how you want your relationship to be?

aparootsa -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/16/2007 11:44:59 PM)
Variation between scenes is always an issue when playing near limits, granted, and some people will be more consistent than others. All I'm saying is that if he's never come close (and I assume they've played when her limits were lower than normal) then it might do some good to push the envelope. They may be only hitting 35 mph in a car whose top speed runs between 55 and 90 mph (depending on slope, type of gas, elevation, whatever), and if that's the case, it'd be good to know that. Not saying it's sure to be a good thing, but I think it could be valuable. As regards the fictional Dom who now needs dental work... the dumbass should have brought up his intentions while negotiating the scene. This is not a good surprise move to make, and I'll wholeheartedly agree that for some couples it would be damaging, and Ache, this may be the case with your Master. It's something you'll have to talk to him about and understand why he's so leery of hitting your limit. It's possible that doing so would hurt him - some Doms are empaths, ya know [;)]. Peace to both of you,Aaron

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 8:37:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: becca333 quote: ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav i will do it if He tells me to...and when He tells me to....but i won't like it...Master will not know that i don't like it, because all He will see is me...smiling... Does your Master value honesty? Does he wish for you to be honest with him? Do you feel that would be honest? yes...thats honest...Master already knows how i feel...but i will do it because i want to please Him and by obeying Him and pleasing Him...that in and of itself will bring me pleasure and satisfaction...so no...He will not see displeasure in my face ..or anything resembling it...because it dosent belong there. One of my definitions of a good Master or Dom is that he knows and respects your limits, and DOES NOT ask you to cross them to gratify himself. I think you need to be very careful, you're each pushing the other to cross hard limits, you're setting precedents that will cause problems in the future. And to me it shows a lack of respect of each other, and of the relationship, to act this way. It's fine to push limits if you both support each other in that idea, and to revisit them now and then to see how you've grown and changed, but this seems like some kind of bargaining to me - "I'll do that for you if you do this for me" - a way for each of you to force the other to do things they really don't want to do. Is this how you want your relationship to be? Thanks for your comment but you couldnt be more wrong...these two things were not even discussed at the same time. The fact that my Master wants to see me with other men is something i would very much LOVE to be able to do, because it will make Him happy...and i will be glad to serve Him any way He wants me to....my own "bagage" shouldn't be an issue

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 8:40:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHeart With regard to your wish to be pushed, this, which I posted to another thread, might be relevant to you: "Before I play with someone, I have an in-depth conversation about safe words, stressing the fact that I consider them just as important, if not MORE important, around emotional pain as physical pain. This comes as a revelation to most subs. I give the sub the safeword "Mercy" but make it clear that I will also pay attention to "No!" Stop!" and "Safeword!" since subs sometimes lose it when upset. Additional to this, I actively elicit their state of mind/body. I ask: "what colour are you?" from time to time during a scene. Green means great; I like it; more; I'm comfortable etc. Orange mean I'm getting uncomfortable; slow down; something's not working here. Red means I don't like it; I am close to safewording. This helps to identify areas of play that are causing problems, but nevertheless some things only do come out later, by way of feedback. At the time, it isn't always possible to analyse feelings. I always feel that until a sub has safeworded on me, I am not fully comfortable with them. I can't trust that they are not doing some macho bullshit thing. I like to push till it's out of the way, and then I know we have real honesty between us. " :)) LH YES...this is IT...Master seems to have it in His head that i WON'T use my safe word...because i have been reluctant to use it...i want to show him that i WILL use it...and i want to play alittle harder then we have been....of course its Masters call

MaamJay -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 8:54:04 AM)
OK I've read the other posts and they seem to be wandering down a side track, so I'll come back to the original. IF I remember rightly from the OPs other posts, she and her Master are a relatively new couple. This reads to Me as if He has been rightly very cautious about not causing inadvertent harm ... but it has got to the point where she would like to go a little further and explore a bit more physical pain. Since she is the one wanting to suggest this, I can't see how His agreeing to do so in a controlled fashion could possibly be damaging to the relationship. OK some might see it as topping from the bottom, but new couples need to work together to grow and develop and some Doms welcome such suggestions from their sub. It mentally frees them up to go a little further. This is showing Him that her trust in Him is developing sufficiently that she feels safe going further with Him, knowing He will care for her and look after her. I am in agreement with LadyHeart in that Her suggestion of using the colours is a great way to explore without harm. I tell subs I am going to play till I hear an orange, as only then will I have an idea of where their limit is on that day. And I want to get over the macho bullshit (is that really only common to male subs? or do females do it too?) so that I can TRUST that they will honestly tell Me how they are going. A call of orange still leaves Me, as the Top, in control of what I do with that information. I might choose to end that activity there and move to something else, I might choose to play on a bit at close to the same intensity, I might choose to back off and then build up again and see when they next call orange. Yes this frequently applies to impact play, but can in fact be applied to most physical forms of play and emotional situations too. So, "ache", I understand where you are coming from in this. It is wonderful indeed to have a caring Master ... but also wonderful to be able to be pushed just a little further and see where it can take you. It could be for example, that you've been hovering on the edge of subspace and just not had that last little pain-provoked kick to get the endorphins really flowing to take you there. Hovering and not flying can be a really frustrating experience, I sense you know there is more to come and want to explore. Good luck! I would recommend that you and your Master discuss beforehand the likelihood that you may go through a variety of apparent emotions and responses ... i get giggly ... then very quiet and dreamy and spacy ... then sometimes i cry, other times i drift off so deep that Master has to instruct and assist me to even stand up. Other subs I know go through an anger stage. Any of those can be a bit of a shock to your Master! The main reassurance is just to accept those responses lovingly and agree to discuss them, later during aftercare, or later still if the brain's just not up to it then. As to your other question about being shared ... I think it's a wise Master that sees your reaction, learns something of your history (remembering your past posts about your marriage) and says to Himself "OK she is obviously not ready for this. she is worth more to Me than this kinky idea is, so I will walk away from this." In that action He is exercising His right of control as the Master. For you to push this now, in some sort of misguided "i want to do it for Him" thing, you are actually, in one sense, being disobedient. He knows you are not ready to do this even if you are well-intentioned. It is your place in this instance to back down and be quiet about it, and to let Him work with you on your own trust in yourself and your place in His heart. I think you are actually totally wrong in your assessment that He's thinking "she's not worth keeping for Myself." I think His response in backing away from this for the time being shows that in fact He considers you ARE worth keeping for Himself! Sensibly He realises He has a lot of work to do with you in terms of your self-esteem before you could be ready for this sort of activity. I've always thought that emotional triggers are far more "dodgy" to play with than physical pain triggers ... and I think He realises that too. So He has now made it His limit, that He will not go there with you at this time ... and I think that's a very wise choice on His part. It is one that confirms to Me that He is a caring Master. Remember, it's not necessarily a hard limit, never to be broken. With personal growth and development in your relationship with Him, there may come a time when you will be ready for this and He will take delight in it, not only in the act, but in the knowledge that with His support and love and work with you, you have come to the place where your self-worth can see this in a whole new light. That said, the issue of sharing is still an emotion-charged one for anyone, never to be entered into lightly, as Joseff warned. I wish you all the very best with your developing relationship! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

MaamJay -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 9:01:01 AM)
Oh dear I am so slow typing tonight that there's 3 more posts than when I started LOL! Just a quick addition ... "ache", your baggage IS important. It's part of what is currently defining you as you. Note I say "currently" ... it is possible to deal with baggage to the point where it loses its power. your Master has realised that His fancy would press a big emotional button, would bring up a very large suitcase of baggage! Wisely He has decided it is not worth it at this stage, it has way too much potential to permanently damage the relationship and that He doesn't want. Sometime in the future that baggage may have shrunk to a tiny purse which won't be anywhere near as dangerous to open ... in the meantime, be obedient and accept His decision on this one! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 9:08:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay OK I've read the other posts and they seem to be wandering down a side track, so I'll come back to the original. IF I remember rightly from the OPs other posts, she and her Master are a relatively new couple. This reads to Me as if He has been rightly very cautious about not causing inadvertent harm ... but it has got to the point where she would like to go a little further and explore a bit more physical pain. Since she is the one wanting to suggest this, I can't see how His agreeing to do so in a controlled fashion could possibly be damaging to the relationship. OK some might see it as topping from the bottom, but new couples need to work together to grow and develop and some Doms welcome such suggestions from their sub. It mentally frees them up to go a little further. This is showing Him that her trust in Him is developing sufficiently that she feels safe going further with Him, knowing He will care for her and look after her. I am in agreement with LadyHeart in that Her suggestion of using the colours is a great way to explore without harm. I tell subs I am going to play till I hear an orange, as only then will I have an idea of where their limit is on that day. And I want to get over the macho bullshit (is that really only common to male subs? or do females do it too?) so that I can TRUST that they will honestly tell Me how they are going. A call of orange still leaves Me, as the Top, in control of what I do with that information. I might choose to end that activity there and move to something else, I might choose to play on a bit at close to the same intensity, I might choose to back off and then build up again and see when they next call orange. Yes this frequently applies to impact play, but can in fact be applied to most physical forms of play and emotional situations too. So, "ache", I understand where you are coming from in this. It is wonderful indeed to have a caring Master ... but also wonderful to be able to be pushed just a little further and see where it can take you. It could be for example, that you've been hovering on the edge of subspace and just not had that last little pain-provoked kick to get the endorphins really flowing to take you there. Hovering and not flying can be a really frustrating experience, I sense you know there is more to come and want to explore. Good luck! I would recommend that you and your Master discuss beforehand the likelihood that you may go through a variety of apparent emotions and responses ... i get giggly ... then very quiet and dreamy and spacy ... then sometimes i cry, other times i drift off so deep that Master has to instruct and assist me to even stand up. Other subs I know go through an anger stage. Any of those can be a bit of a shock to your Master! The main reassurance is just to accept those responses lovingly and agree to discuss them, later during aftercare, or later still if the brain's just not up to it then. As to your other question about being shared ... I think it's a wise Master that sees your reaction, learns something of your history (remembering your past posts about your marriage) and says to Himself "OK she is obviously not ready for this. she is worth more to Me than this kinky idea is, so I will walk away from this." In that action He is exercising His right of control as the Master. For you to push this now, in some sort of misguided "i want to do it for Him" thing, you are actually, in one sense, being disobedient. He knows you are not ready to do this even if you are well-intentioned. It is your place in this instance to back down and be quiet about it, and to let Him work with you on your own trust in yourself and your place in His heart. I think you are actually totally wrong in your assessment that He's thinking "she's not worth keeping for Myself." I think His response in backing away from this for the time being shows that in fact He considers you ARE worth keeping for Himself! Sensibly He realises He has a lot of work to do with you in terms of your self-esteem before you could be ready for this sort of activity. I've always thought that emotional triggers are far more "dodgy" to play with than physical pain triggers ... and I think He realises that too. So He has now made it His limit, that He will not go there with you at this time ... and I think that's a very wise choice on His part. It is one that confirms to Me that He is a caring Master. Remember, it's not necessarily a hard limit, never to be broken. With personal growth and development in your relationship with Him, there may come a time when you will be ready for this and He will take delight in it, not only in the act, but in the knowledge that with His support and love and work with you, you have come to the place where your self-worth can see this in a whole new light. That said, the issue of sharing is still an emotion-charged one for anyone, never to be entered into lightly, as Joseff warned. I wish you all the very best with your developing relationship! Maam Jay aka violet[A] Ma'am....Thankyou so very much for what you have said...i REALLY think you get it...and i see that i have been looking at this being shared thing in a rather skewed manner...and i swear to GOD i dont want to be a disobedient or arrogant slave...that would break my heart...i just didnt want my "crap" getting in the way of serving and making Master happy... i have NO other motive then that.....but i do need to back off the being other men thing...Master said so...and so has everyone else so i get it...i was wrong, and i will follow Masters lead in this, and all matters.

MaamJay -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 9:15:05 AM)
If I have helped, that makes Me happy. I do hope you get to explore your pain limit a little more though! Hugs Maam Jay aka violet[A]

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 9:40:07 AM)
i am REALLY looking forward to exploring the S/m side of our relationship...and Master is too. We are both alittle nervous, but we are not stupid people.We have two safe words, and common sense and intelligence on our side...LOL. I'm sure it will be fun, intense, exciting, and bonding for the both of us....and yes Ma'am...you have helped...so has everyone else who took the time and thought to respond. I am sincerely humbled that Y'all took the time....Thankyou.....

Jasmyn -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 9:57:13 AM)
quote: #1 ... I have decided that i would like to ask Master if He would indulge me in some extreme (well extreme to us anyway)play the next time Him and i are together for atleast an overnight...if He agrees i would beg His indulgence to allow me to suggest a senerio. If Master allows that i would suggest Him beating me..bound...not bound...both...it matters not, but to get me to the point that i say my safe word...He is very leary of playing too rough...He vocalizes this and i can tell by His body language and expressions...i would like to show Him where i stand as of now with my pain threshold. So Master will know where it is instead of "wondering" where it is ...and if He chooses to build on that then of course he can... Ache when I was in a switch relationship I struggled a lot with my partner's inability to push scenes to their limit. Every scene was 'safe'. If I winced in pain while he twisted a nipple he stopped, if I grimaced when a flogger wrapped he stopped, if I yelped, he'd stop ...any reaction of discomfort freaked him. I sat him down one day and we talked about 'safewords' and tried to communicate to him how much I wanted what he was doing to continue and for him to trust me... if anything became too much..he had to trust me...that I would safe word. Is it possible to combine both your wants/needs into one? Sharing you with a dom who will take you to your limit? As a dom, it took me a while to find my sadist sea legs so to speak ... mentally I'm pretty intense and scenes can be incredibly hot... but in the early days I had to find a way to be turned on by someone else's pain ... and I learnt to give myself permission to a bitch... that yes he will still love me in the morning ... Don't really have much else to add ... but good luck out there ... I hope you find your holy grail and soon ...

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 10:09:39 AM)
Jasmyn Ma'am...i understand completely what you are saying thankyou...I have had a bit more time coming to terms with the fact that i'm probably a masochist. Master is JUST now realizing He may be a Sadist...i believe He may have some concerns about exactly what it is a sadist is about....or as you so aptly put it getting your "sadist sea legs".....

Jasmyn -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 10:28:24 AM)
I'm glad to say I am definitely Captain of my own good ship sadi - pop now ;) and no difficulty in making someone walk the plank of my deviant mind ;) Ok no more sea references I promise ;) One thing you can both try is role playing ... some here will groan at the thought but ignore them ... part of the reluctance I have seen with couples playing harder is finding that part, that creature, that character trait, within them to take them down that track. Pick personas' that suit the scenario ... eg captive and abductor ... interrogation ... brutish cop ... stern discplinarian teacher/headmaster ... that way it isn't 'you and your Master' playing harder ... but the roles you have shrugged on ... and just as easily you can step out of them when the scene is done .. It's safer for him to become harsher, more brutal in his manner (voice, etc) knowing there is an end to this Eventually over time as you both learn how to push limits within these scenes the roles begin to merge with who you both are and it is 'Master' administering the sadism not just the persona he needed to be in the early days ... (hope that makes sense, it's early morn here and I should have been in bed eons ago)

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 10:34:30 AM)
JASMYN!!!... what a WONDERFUL idea... because there is something that Master does already that would be PERFECT for this...LOL...i was grinning from ear to ear as i read your post...because my mind was already ticking with ideas about a "scene"....LOL...WOO HOOO...this could get REAL fun real fast....

Jasmyn -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 10:44:58 AM)
[;)] enjoy ;)

trainedobedients -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 2:49:31 PM)
Dear imthatacheyouhave, I have nothing to say on your first point, it does not rock my boat but obviously yours so I say go for it. On the second I do have a lot to say. My Master loves to share and shares me with select Dom or Domme. It was not one of my fantasies but has become one. Being his whore and being used by others as whore is exciting and changed my world. I also have an issue with being left alone, but Master was able to explain what it is what he was looking for and never gave me a feeling that he did not want me. On the contrary it has strenghtened his love for me. Being his slave, his property which he can share if he wants to pleases us both. But.........if I would have felt bad about it he would have waited, maybe invain. If your heart is not in it don't do it. Because the thing you need with every new experience is the knowledge that you are loved beyond the nasty things we do. Feel free to contact me one on one if you need more information about this subject. Play safe and sound, trainedobedients slave of Master JohnnyV

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 5:05:10 PM)
And, if you're seriously considering this, you definitely need to inform this third party female that you aren't going to enjoy the act itself at all and will only be doing it because he has ordered it. Any pleasure you express during those acts will solely be due to the submission and not because of any direct pleasure.

LadyHeart -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/17/2007 7:29:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay I am in agreement with LadyHeart in that Her suggestion of using the colours is a great way to explore without harm. I tell subs I am going to play till I hear an orange, as only then will I have an idea of where their limit is on that day. And I want to get over the macho bullshit (is that really only common to male subs? or do females do it too?) so that I can TRUST that they will honestly tell Me how they are going. In my experience, fem subs are more likely to withhold their safeword because they fear displeasing their Master. In all inexperienced submissives, there is a tendency to believe that it is not OK to safeword. I have heard one say "It's not OK to use your safeword" which defeats the whole purpose of using the safeword in the first place. I think this fallacy develops because people in longer term relationships don't appear to use safewords, because they know eachother so well they don't need to. Like all generalisations, this will have its exceptions, but perhaps the OP could have a general discussion about safewords and their use with her Master as a way of re opening discussion with Him?

MaamJay -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/18/2007 3:10:19 AM)
Good idea LadyHeart. I've only played with 3 fem subs, none of whom had any problem using their safewords, whereas I find it an uphill battle with the guys! But that could be because I am not the "Master" of those girls, so there wasn't the fear of displeasing operating. "Damn that bloody hurt" counted as a safeword LOL ... with a girl whose ass I barely tapped ... but whom I couldn't flog hard enough on the shoulders to satisfy her! Strange lass that one ... now an excellent Domme! And the role playing idea from Jasmyn was good ... that might well make the Master feel more comfortable about exploring His newly-budding sadistic tendencies. I hope "ache" gets back to Us all after the next play time! I love it when these forums "work" as they should ... educating and giving constructive ideas to help people solve their problems! Maam Jay

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/18/2007 9:47:38 AM)
quote: I hope "ache" gets back to Us all after the next play time! i will indeed...but i was thinking if the play time is going to be intense enough for the safe word to come out...i should probably wait until Master and i can at least spend the night together...He can't do that unless He is going out of town on business. So i will let Y'all know...

Celeste43 -> RE: Limit or Preference (6/18/2007 11:26:05 AM)
About the pushing to use the safeword, some people do so and others don't like the idea. Your dom doesn't like the idea so I wouldn't push him to do something he's uncomfortable with. Just offer feedback so he does know if things are too soft, too hard or just right. He'll be more comfortable turning up the heat if you have demonstrated that you will give him feedback. You might also discuss what the sensations felt like on a scale of one to ten, let's say you felt it was a three and you think you would enjoy him moving it up to a five. That would give him a better measure of where you are instead of suddenly finding out he raised it too much. As far as the other woman thing, this isn't your only chance. It isn't something that has to be decided now. Now you are worried about it and still not feeling secure enough. But continue on in the relationship and you may discover that next year you are ready to experiment. Wait until the right time.

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