RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end?

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end?

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:10:30 PM

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
i really thought about how accepting some are of really awful shit!

I can't explain or defend what another's motivations are for turning a blind eye as you say. But let me offer this for consideration...maybe they only appear to be accepting. Maybe they are just as incensed and disgusted by it as you are but the fear of being bitch slapped by the masses makes them remain quiet. Maybe they seem to accept because it's been drilled into their heads that it is the only acceptable response. Maybe they fail to react because they have reacted many times before with no positive result. Lots and lots of maybes.

I think often times there are many people who feel the same way, even if only one is saying it out loud. They just, for whatever reason, don't feel comfortable expressing it in a way that would "attach" that point of view to themselves.

The problem mistoferin and angelic...Is you need to be specific as to what type of activities warrant your interference or help?.....It's fine to be outspoken and object to some advice given or someone's opinion on a forum. It is quite another to try to enforce your values upon others as to how they conduct their private lives.

_____________________________

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:16:48 PM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Here is the thing, my vanilla family members have noted that I like "controlling men" in that I have certain things I "answer" for. Now, my relationship would not work for them... and if they were just a little less open minded and realized that I am happy they might call it "abusive"... should they try to "save me"? Here I am as happy as a pea in a pod, not behaving like a member of society because women are supposed to stand up for themselves and not take shit from anyone these days... yet I am submissive. A lot of people would have a problem with that. Do I care? No. If they tried to "save me" I would most likely tell them to fuck off (depending on who they were). A lot of people think they know better for others... that is not true.

I do not accept everyone or their kink. If I do not like the way they live I do walk away. I do not think twice if everyone consented to it.... I do judge some things, and I do not hesitate on stating my opinion... but do I try to intervene and make people do what I think they should or offer unwanted and unasked for advice... hardly... if one keeps rescuing drowning people they are going to be dragged down themselves eventually...

I love this quote... One can never be unhappy enough, poor enough, or sick enough to make another human being happy, wealthy, or healthy.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:17:18 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I have often said that there are some times when I leave here that I walk away feeling as though there is not enough hot water and soap in the world to make me feel clean again.

Wow. That seems a bit sensitive. How do you deal with watching the news?

quote:

We have taken the whole "your kink is ok/my kink is ok" thing to such an extreme that the fear of being labelled "intolerant" or "judgemental" has us at times turning our backs and keeping our mouths shut even as our stomachs turn in revolt.

The problem is that everyone has a different standard for what causes that reaction.

Mine is when consent is violated, or when pictures are stuck in my face (a subset of violating consent, IMO).

Some ministers I've spoken to draw the line at turning on the lights during sex, or not doing it missionary style, or not doing it solely for the purpose of procreation or fulfilling one's "marital duties."

Your line is apparently somewhere in between those.

But where is that line "supposed" to be drawn, and who gets to decide?

If we go by majority opinion, the bulk of the CMers are on the "wrong" side of the line.

quote:

We allow the fear of not being seen as "politically correct" to override all of our common sense.

As I've quoted in the past, "common sense" is merely the sum of prejudices accumulated by adulthood.

I'm not much for "common sense", nor am I much for "political correctness".

I emphatically subscribe to the view that capable people who make a rational decision about what to do with their lives, with a clear idea of the consequences of doing so, are entitled to do whatever they want, without external interference, as long as they do not involve non-consenting parties.

This is, IMO, a major flaw in all commonly accepted sets of human "rights": they do not protect the freedom to choose, but rather impose "universal" standards that aren't really all that universal, and declare the "rights" that follow from these well-intended but misguided standards to be "inalienable".

For instance, the UDHR article 4 states:

"No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms."

This clearly bans a certain number of people from pursuing the lives they wish to lead.

quote:

Some may say that I am trying to justify intolerance. If it is opposed to limitless tolerance than yes, I guess I am.

Don't worry. A lot of people are intolerant.

It usually doesn't become a problem for them until most others stop being intolerant.

quote:

and if someone dares to cry foul they slap that "intolerant" trump card on the table.

It's only a trump card as long as you let it be.

Of course, persisting in hassling them about choices you do not tolerate may not be productive, either.

quote:

Well you know, I really don't mind being labelled intolerant or judgmental. I much prefer it to choking down the rising bile that sometimes comes....

Again, the problem is that these things are subjective.

My bile rises when I see posts such as this one, while yours rises for other reasons.

There's no sensible place to draw the line, really, except where you can pin it down.

And, as far as I know, the only places to pin it down are (a) majority opinion, (b) international or national standards, or (c) consent. Option (a) excludes pretty much all of WIITWD. Option (b) excludes most of it. Option (c) includes all of it, including the stuff we don't like.

If you have any arguments to support some other semi-fixed place to pin it to, that's great. Let's hear them.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:17:45 PM

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

We ‘see’ things here daily. Some, in my opinion are truly horrific, but if anyone stands against those things and speaks out, without fail there will be many others telling us it is none of our business, that as long as it is consentual it should be accepted. My question is this…. Is there anything in WIITWD that the general population think wrong? Or do we just accept everything? If we do accept everything is it because the only information we have is through this screen and not something seen in r/l or because it is not our mom, sister or daughter affected?

I do not see anything about this story relating to WIITWD. Minors cannot consent to being in a car with a drunk parent. Consent is the cornerstone of WIITWD in my opinion. If my female family members consented to being in a relationship that was Ds, what can I say about that? I certainly do not want them telling me what to do!

I do not see many things that are consensual as being horrific here... there have been very few things here that have given me pause to be honest. I have seen people get hurt, but vanilla people get hurt, vanilla people get used, vanilla people get abused.

I am not the babysitter of the world, people have their own lives to lead, they lead them the way they like. I was abused in my marriage, and you know what, no one but me could take responsibility for that and end it.. and I consented to it by remaining in the situation after the first time he did this. Personal responsibility is important in life.. because no one can change our lives but us.

Now what you find horrific I might find satisfying, and vice versa.... do you really think it is your job to save people from themselves? What happens when an outsider decides YOU need saving?

I was kinda thinking the same way also people that he may have killed that where driveing on the road could not consent to beeing on the road with a drunk driver, even if they did you cant consent to someone els doing something elegal.... I dont know guess Im like Ron Im missing the point!! Though what he said was nice to you so I dont know why you snaped at him that way seemed kinda rude!! Just my opinion

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:18:15 PM

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

erin, i sent you a message on the other side. i agree there are tons of maybes and no answers. It does make me wonder when enough is enough.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:21:32 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Well I am happy to hear that you might need saving....I have recently become a born again Christian and I think it would be wise for you to abandon this hedonistic lifestyle and accept Jesus Christ as your saviour....The alternative is the eternal damnation of your soul.....I know of several bible study groups in the Seattle area or if that is not close or convenient I'm sure I could find a group close to you that would welcome your participation.

No need to thank me....Just trying to better the world one soul at a time.

If you need some additional resources or guidance for the beginning of your spiritual journey CMail me...I look forward to hearing from you.

My favorite book: "The Lord is My Sheperd and He knows I'm Gay"
Ever read that book? Its really quite eye opening.
God loves Us all no matter what some Christians may think.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:23:56 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

Ya know Whiplash, other people did come and go while this was happening... and simply turned a blind eye... it is the same blind eye some people here turn.

Not really.

If I see someone beating up someone else, I intervene. If the person who was being beat up says "get the fuck out of here, we're scening!", I say "oops, sorry!" and leave them alone.

Those kids didn't consent to their dad being a drunk driver, and the other people in traffic sure as hell didn't. Therein lies the difference between turning a blind eye (like you did about the really dangerous stuff: the drunk driving), and WIITWD (which you and mistoferin apparently don't subscribe to). If consent doesn't make that big a difference, I'd find that a whole lot more disturbing than what is actually done.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to angelic)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:24:52 PM

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to angelic)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:27:32 PM

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

Since some have taken offense to my remark to Ron... he did miss the point... and he has a habit of being rude while sounding nice... if i misunderstood... then my bad.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:29:19 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

i disagree... if she consents to you killing her... and you do so... you should be 'excused' because she consented?

Depends... do you agree that she has the right to kill herself ?

If yes, then ... yeah. Though I wouldn't, anyway.

If no, then ... well, why do you think it's right to deprive people of that choice?

What one is "excused" for, by which I take it you mean legally (there's no "excuses" for anything in the real world, only "reasons" and "consequences"), is a different matter. The law allows no excuse for the "horrific" crime of owning six dildos in Texas, as I recall. That's just got to be "possession with intent to distribute". And distributing them would be bad, right?

No. There are just laws and unjust laws. And they're all pretty arbitrary.

What's ethical, however, is a different matter, although still arbitrary.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to angelic)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:34:39 PM

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

You know... the interesting thing throughout this thread... neither i nor erin nor anyone else attacked anyone here... it was a discussion... one i am very serious about. i think i will keep it that way and just ignore your ignorance.

< Message edited by angelic -- 6/16/2007 10:35:09 PM >

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:34:48 PM

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
The problem mistoferin and angelic...Is you need to be specific as to what type of activities warrant your interference or help?.....It's fine to be outspoken and object to some advice given or someone's opinion on a forum. It is quite another to try to enforce your values upon others as to how they conduct their private lives.

I am very specific in what motivates me to speak out or interfere. If you're looking for a laundry list though it's not quite that simple. I tend to look at most things on a case by case basis and take all of the relevant information into consideration before I make judgments on it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:36:35 PM

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

Since some have taken offense to my remark to Ron... he did miss the point... and he has a habit of being rude while sounding nice... if i misunderstood... then my bad.

It's the primary trait of a tremendous Dom.

_____________________________

(in reply to angelic)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:40:39 PM

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

i have to ask this question. What if the person being beat, in the eyes of the law and government is mentally incompetent? Then what?

edited because i'm damned tired and keep typing in past tense...

< Message edited by angelic -- 6/16/2007 10:45:40 PM >

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:43:31 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

According to that line of thought we should probably all kill ourselves right now then. We all have to adhere to someone else's standards each and every day. It's called being a member of society. Does being a member of society negate the possibility of a good life?

Reread the part you quoted (emphasis mine):

"What use is life if you have to adhere to someone else's standards for what constitutes a good life?"

Judging from the "regular Joes and Janes" around here (those of my own age), a good life entails having a job that you can stand which gives you enough money to get by, watching a lot of TV every day, never talking much to your spouse, grudgingly raising your unplanned kids, getting drunk on the weekends, keeping your wardrobe up to date, having the occasional fling with attendant risk of break-up, struggling to pay your loans, bitching about gasoline prices, discussing the mind-numbingly dull topic of the day with your colleagues at work, and eventually growing old and giving up on life once you've retired. Oh, and, of course, occasionally going to another country to do more of the same, but with more sun and more getting drunk, as well as bragging about the tan afterwards. Sex-life is, of course, mostly 15-30 minutes with no foreplay and no kink.

That does not constitute a "good life" for me.

I can have a job I like, give up on TV altogether, spend most of my time doing stuff with nephandi, not having kids, not getting drunk at all, sticking to a wardrobe I like, having casual protected sex with nephandi's blessing, not having any loans, not owning a car, discussing the topics that interest me with people who share an interest in them, travelling when there's some place I really want to see and experience, and squeezing every last moment out of my life. And my sex-life can entail anything me and my partner agree on.

It has nothing to do with being part of society.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:45:58 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

i have zero problem being a nosey busibody.

Some of us have a problem with "nosey busibodies" butting into our lives, however.

I'm fairly sure you'd object if I imposed my standards on you. Or, to take it to the other extreme, I'm also pretty sure you'd object if the Catholic church imposed their standards on you, seeing as you are on CM.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 6/16/2007 10:56:44 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to angelic)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:46:01 PM

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Well I am happy to hear that you might need saving....I have recently become a born again Christian and I think it would be wise for you to abandon this hedonistic lifestyle and accept Jesus Christ as your saviour....The alternative is the eternal damnation of your soul.....I know of several bible study groups in the Seattle area or if that is not close or convenient I'm sure I could find a group close to you that would welcome your participation.

No need to thank me....Just trying to better the world one soul at a time.

If you need some additional resources or guidance for the beginning of your spiritual journey CMail me...I look forward to hearing from you.

My favorite book: "The Lord is My Sheperd and He knows I'm Gay"
Ever read that book? Its really quite eye opening.
God loves Us all no matter what some Christians may think.

Surely God must hate a few of us....Might as well start with the homos....(I'm joking....I really, really am...I have a horrible sense of humor...Jesus please forgive me. If not, I shall still sleep well tonight....I hate it when our Lord and Saviour bogarts the forgiveness)

_____________________________

(in reply to MistressSassy66)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:52:18 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

neither i nor erin nor anyone else attacked anyone here...

Would you say I have attacked you?

quote:

it was a discussion... one i am very serious about.

I'm also very serious about the discussion, and it is an interesting one.

We just have different opinions. Which is kind of what makes a discussion be ... well, a discussion.

quote:

i think i will keep it that way and just ignore your ignorance.

Ignoring someone else's point of view hardly constitutes discussion.

If you feel there is something I'm ignorant about, please do enlighten me.

Because I do prefer not to be ignorant, and I find that engaging in debate with people of another opinion than myself is a good way for everyone involved to become less ignorant of their own views and those of others, as well as the reasons for the various views involved.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to angelic)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:56:01 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

i have to ask this question. What if the person being beat, in the eyes of the law and government is mentally incompetent? Then what?

If they are mentally incompetent, they cannot give consent.

If they cannot give consent, they haven't given consent.

If they haven't given consent, I interfere.

Pretty simple.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to angelic)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 10:56:37 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Well I am happy to hear that you might need saving....I have recently become a born again Christian and I think it would be wise for you to abandon this hedonistic lifestyle and accept Jesus Christ as your saviour....The alternative is the eternal damnation of your soul.....I know of several bible study groups in the Seattle area or if that is not close or convenient I'm sure I could find a group close to you that would welcome your participation.

No need to thank me....Just trying to better the world one soul at a time.

If you need some additional resources or guidance for the beginning of your spiritual journey CMail me...I look forward to hearing from you.

My favorite book: "The Lord is My Sheperd and He knows I'm Gay"
Ever read that book? Its really quite eye opening.
God loves Us all no matter what some Christians may think.

Surely God must hate a few of us....Might as well start with the homos....(I'm joking....I really, really am...I have a horrible sense of humor...Jesus please forgive me. If not, I shall still sleep well tonight....I hate it when our Lord and Saviour bogarts the forgiveness)

God doesnt hate anyone...where did you come up with that idea?
Just because some of His children get lost doesnt mean He doesnt love them.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to domiguy)

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end?

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.217