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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 11:00:57 PM

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I'm joking...However, If you have ever read the Old testament it appears that God was, to say the least, a tad bit displeased with a few of the folks that were hanging around back in the day.

And it might be true that he might still love those of his children who have found themselves "lost" but that never prevented Him from smiting them off of the face of the earth.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 6/16/2007 11:03:45 PM >

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 11:01:42 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66

God doesnt hate anyone...where did you come up with that idea?
Just because some of His children get lost doesnt mean He doesnt love them.

Domiguy is just pulling your leg.

He tends to be in "funny mode" a lot, which is okay.

On this particular thread, he kind of got his point across with a lot of it, I think.

Edit: dang, he beat me to it.

Oh, and Domiguy, the debate about what upset who and why in the Old Testament is probably for another thread. Otherwise, I might get a bit carried away with my theology again. Derailing such an interesting topic would be a pity.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 6/16/2007 11:03:28 PM >

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 11:24:36 PM

MistressSassy66

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I'm joking...However, If you have ever read the Old testament it appears that God was, to say the least, a tad bit displeased with a few of the folks that were hanging around back in the day.

And it might be true that he might still love those of his children who have found themselves "lost" but that never prevented Him from smiting them off of the face of the earth.

Okay your joking thats cool. I still have to respond...lol
Displeased yes, but that does not mean He hated us...
Did He ever not have faith in mankind? No
Right up to the end He hoped that mankind would change.
While He may have lost many people and perhaps they were removed,He never stops mourning the loss of those He fails.

This is why we are given so many chances,He wants us to succeed and if you dont you come back and do it over...That is the humble opinion of this Jesus freak,who happens to enjoy torturing others...and you know what...I know God still loves Me.
I think God cares more about Lying,cheating,stealing,adultry etc than he does Me inflicting pain or those who enjoy recieving it.

On that religous note...time for bed.
Peace.

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In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/16/2007 11:28:57 PM

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I had something remotely similar happen yesterday.

I'm in a queue in a pound shop in London. It's Saturday afternoon. A black woman and a child reach the till just ahead of two white guys in front of me. Then one of them starts.

HIM: "These f**king nigger people. Don't understand queues."
ME: "Excuse me?"
HIM: "Oh wow, and a f**king trannie too."
ME: "Just shut the f**k up, okay?"

Now okay. I can accept someone being racist. I'm not racist. The shop is a public place. I spoke out because of two reasons, (1) racism is a hate crime and (2) I don't feel I have to accept someone's racist views in a public place.

Going back to what angelic wrote in her OP, I feel she did the right thing in the store by intevening. It's a public place. Someone was being abused, and IMO kudos to angelic for stepping in and standing up to this man.

However I don't feel under any obligation to play morality cop. But I also feel that you shouldn't wash your dirty laundry in public. I responded because I felt that someone was being abused/attacked in a public place. Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut, but I figured that a woman with a child might not have had the courage to stand up to these two guys, and I also responded as I did to show her that I disagreed with their opinion.

Is there anything in WIITWD that the general population think is wrong? Yes. I give myself and who I am as a prime example. But am I wrong for being who I really am? Or are those who think I'm wrong also entitled to their opinion?

Here it is different. There are things I may not accept or like, and there are things I may wish to challenge, but I don't. Why? There is of course the issue of consent. It may not be my kink, but it is a kink, and it's someone else's kink. I'm not here to educate people, nor to play God or morality cop, and if there's no abuse or harm I don't really see it as being any of my business. And if there is, not knowing the other side, the most I can do is voice my concerns and I would hope my opinion would be treated as such.

But there is another reason - lack of information. Usually in these situations you only get one side presented - what about the other side? There are always two sides to every story, and not knowing both deprives me of the context, the facts and a proper understanding of the situation. I can assume, but an assumption is really another word for a guess, and I can oh so easily get it wrong. And in such a situation what value is my opinion anyway?

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If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 3:51:39 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
What use is life if you have to adhere to someone else's standards for what constitutes a good life?

According to that line of thought we should probably all kill ourselves right now then. We all have to adhere to someone else's standards each and every day. It's called being a member of society. Does being a member of society negate the possibility of a good life?

erin, I would simply say, remember that there are plenty of people "out there" that consider every single one of us out of bounds, and needing intervention. There is an incredibly fine line here....

*throws jello at her, for good measure*

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 3:52:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
i really thought about how accepting some are of really awful shit!

I can't explain or defend what another's motivations are for turning a blind eye as you say. But let me offer this for consideration...maybe they only appear to be accepting. Maybe they are just as incensed and disgusted by it as you are but the fear of being bitch slapped by the masses makes them remain quiet. Maybe they seem to accept because it's been drilled into their heads that it is the only acceptable response. Maybe they fail to react because they have reacted many times before with no positive result. Lots and lots of maybes.

I think often times there are many people who feel the same way, even if only one is saying it out loud. They just, for whatever reason, don't feel comfortable expressing it in a way that would "attach" that point of view to themselves.

The problem mistoferin and angelic...Is you need to be specific as to what type of activities warrant your interference or help?.....It's fine to be outspoken and object to some advice given or someone's opinion on a forum. It is quite another to try to enforce your values upon others as to how they conduct their private lives.

Well said, DG.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 5:38:37 AM

RCdc

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hello angelic

You just have to be true to your own self hey. If that means 'interfering' to some people, then just decide if those are the kind of people you want to care about anyway.

You can't save the world - and its not up to you (generic) - to save an individual. That said, if I saw someone getting into a vehicle drunk and about to drive, damn sure I would notify the police. That could be me in a head long collision with a drunk driver. And my conscience would be shot if someone or thing ended up killed because I turned a blind eye.

As Level said, it's a fine line between interfering and jello.... (that was right wasn't it or do I have my wires crossed?)

Peace
the.dark.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 8:56:24 AM

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I think I grasp what you mean in your post, just how much should we accept under the guise of WIITWD. For that, I have no answer except to say speak up if you feel it is needed.
A few days ago I went to Wendys (ooh I needed that Frosty), I was eating inside & there was a small group next to me. Gramma, momma, 5 year old boy and baby girl.
The little boy got honey on his shirt & momma promptly stripped him stark naked with his clothes in a pile in the walking area. I could hear them speaking, they had an extra set of clothes in the car but didn't want their fries to get cold. So the boy was free to run around naked, climbing on chairs etc.
There was a man with a cam phone omg, taking pics of the kid. So I asked the manager to have the momma dress the boy (esp since there was a change of clothing in their car). I left there and was getting into my car when the momma rushed over and began hitting my window & screaming at me for butting into her business. Until this point I had only spoken to the manager quietly up by the service counter.

I explained that it was a health code violation to have a naked butt on the seats (put nicer honest) & about the guy snapping pics of her naked boy. She totally lost it, police had to be called etc.
The entire time she railed against me for infringing on her family. Called me a c**t , said I needed a make over (that made me laugh a bit inside), said I had no life if I was having to be so concerned about hers etc etc. Just before the police arrived she dumped them all into her car and sped off, no seat belts no car seats.

Is it my fault she drove off angry like that?
I dunno actually. But I did get her plate number and I did see her pulled over less than a mile away.
Would I do it again?
Yup. The guy taking pics was taking them under his table and that creeped me out. It felt wrong at a gut level. So yeah I would do it again.

Sometimes enough really is too much. It's a tough call many times though but this one wasn't. It involved a kid which makes it much easier for me personally to stand up and say 'hey'.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 9:26:31 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

I think I grasp what you mean in your post, just how much should we accept under the guise of WIITWD. For that, I have no answer except to say speak up if you feel it is needed.
A few days ago I went to Wendys (ooh I needed that Frosty), I was eating inside & there was a small group next to me. Gramma, momma, 5 year old boy and baby girl.
The little boy got honey on his shirt & momma promptly stripped him stark naked with his clothes in a pile in the walking area. I could hear them speaking, they had an extra set of clothes in the car but didn't want their fries to get cold. So the boy was free to run around naked, climbing on chairs etc.
There was a man with a cam phone omg, taking pics of the kid. So I asked the manager to have the momma dress the boy (esp since there was a change of clothing in their car). I left there and was getting into my car when the momma rushed over and began hitting my window & screaming at me for butting into her business. Until this point I had only spoken to the manager quietly up by the service counter.

I explained that it was a health code violation to have a naked butt on the seats (put nicer honest) & about the guy snapping pics of her naked boy. She totally lost it, police had to be called etc.
The entire time she railed against me for infringing on her family. Called me a c**t , said I needed a make over (that made me laugh a bit inside), said I had no life if I was having to be so concerned about hers etc etc. Just before the police arrived she dumped them all into her car and sped off, no seat belts no car seats.

Is it my fault she drove off angry like that?
I dunno actually. But I did get her plate number and I did see her pulled over less than a mile away.
Would I do it again?
Yup. The guy taking pics was taking them under his table and that creeped me out. It felt wrong at a gut level. So yeah I would do it again.

Sometimes enough really is too much. It's a tough call many times though but this one wasn't. It involved a kid which makes it much easier for me personally to stand up and say 'hey'.

You did good. I don't want some kid's shitty ass near me, I don't want a potential perv getting their jollies, and no, it wasn't your fault the "mother" was an idiot. Or idjit.

< Message edited by Level -- 6/17/2007 9:27:02 AM >

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to cjenny)

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 9:30:41 AM

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re the OP
to answer your question: Should I have ... minded my own business?

When someone chooses to drive while intoxicated or under the influence of drugs they are taking the lives of other people into their hands, and they have no right to do that. What they choose to do to themselves is their own business, but when their actions have the potential to harm people who have no choice in the matter, it becomes the business of society as a whole.
I would have called 911 and reported it as I was following them.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 9:30:59 AM

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Holy crap, Jenny. Isn't that sort of thing a violation of the health code not to mention illegal (the taking of pictures)???

You definitely did the right thing, in my opinion.

~shakes head at some children's parents~

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 9:32:26 AM

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Aye... should have, could have.... didn't. All i did was make sure that on that particular trip, they made it home safely.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 9:35:57 AM

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Thanks Level and angelic, that is why I say that I would do it again even tho she scared me lol. I'm not a tough aggressive person but I can pretend to be especially in a situation like that. I just keep thinking of the kids, I worry that I got momma so angry that it would overflow onto them.
Little ones ought to always be safe dammit. Always.
If it takes a stranger to interfere then so be it.
*I wish there were some sort of mandated parenting course but it still wouldn't effect the ones that really need it I guess huh*

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 10:38:00 AM

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cjenny,

You did what needed to be done, especially with the man with the camera. What I would have done differently, is not spoken to the emotional woman.

This is why God gave us a middle finger.

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I'm not inflatable.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 10:44:41 AM

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There is one more piece of the puzzle to consider before all of you vigilantes go over the top....Remember if someone is drunk or someone is acting way out of line in public they probably really don't care what you think...If you get in their face at some point you might not be walking away.....You see, crazy folks sometimes carry weapons and what makes them crazy is the possibility that they won't hesitate to use them....Call the police and if possible, which isn't always going to happen, stay out of harms way.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 6/17/2007 10:46:48 AM >

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 12:15:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

This is why God gave us a middle finger.

Hahaha... this reminded me of work... i often times use the middle finger salute at work. In fact it has jokingly become the "insert company name here" greeting.

Sorry, i hijacked my own thread!

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 12:49:54 PM

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angelic -
You did what you could, and hopefully others will do what they can do as well. Lets look at another scenerio - suppose you had gotten the full plate #, called it in, and the driver had gotten into a chase with police, ending in an accident and caused the death of those girls you stood up for. If you couldn't get the police to stop them before they drove off, then perhaps it's best that you didn't get the police involved. I feel there is sometimes reward in doing what you can, and then letting fate take over. Driving while drunk IMO is tantamount to intentionally going out to harm someone.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 2:40:21 PM

LightHeartedMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

mistoferin, ... you have said perfectly what i have been trying to... you did it so much better than i ever could... thank you very much.

I agree also.

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Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that it seems I have more patience. Turns out, that I just don't give a sh*t.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 2:46:55 PM

LightHeartedMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The problem mistoferin and angelic...Is you need to be specific as to what type of activities warrant your interference or help?.....It's fine to be outspoken and object to some advice given or someone's opinion on a forum. It is quite another to try to enforce your values upon others as to how they conduct their private lives.

When some guy is taking pictures of a naked kid running around from under his table and the parent deciding her french fries getting cold was far more important than getting her son's clothing from the card (stripping him naked when only his shirt was soiled with a honey spot?!) is a pretty good indicator that there's a problem.

What the OP did took guts. We could use more people like her who aren't afraid to take a stand.

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Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that it seems I have more patience. Turns out, that I just don't give a sh*t.

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RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance... - 6/17/2007 3:06:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

There is one more piece of the puzzle to consider before all of you vigilantes go over the top....Remember if someone is drunk or someone is acting way out of line in public they probably really don't care what you think...If you get in their face at some point you might not be walking away.....You see, crazy folks sometimes carry weapons and what makes them crazy is the possibility that they won't hesitate to use them....Call the police and if possible, which isn't always going to happen, stay out of harms way.

If you are on a public street, best thing to do is call the police. Or perhaps go up to them and break their pattern by asking them if you can help them with anything if you are brave. Generally, the person is running some mental script and if you interrupt the pattern it might bring them out of it.

If you are in a place of business, alert the proprietor. It is his responsibility to deal with things like this, not yours.

Sinergy

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(in reply to domiguy)

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