RE: Topping from the bottom (Full Version)

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MHOO314 -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 4:47:07 AM)

anytime a boy comes to Me and says, i want, i want, i want, i am excited about, i can do this better than anyone else for You, You must change this, don't do that---THAT is topping from the bottom and he either doesn't get in the door OR gets shown the door.  However My standards do not fit everyone.



RCdc -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 4:48:46 AM)

I do not like the phrase when used as a verbal assult of someone - usually means that a dominant just has no concept of how to control someone and so throws it as an insult.
 
When used in a postive way - it can be used to help train a dominant.  Or even as a fun exercise in some relationships.
 
I am a submissive personality who tops, but I do not think of it as topping from the bottom, simply because when I am on top I am top.  I top because it give my partner pleasure.
 
And to answer texaskristy - yes some dominants do bottom, just as there are dominant masochists and submissive sadists.  Just because a person is dominant, does not mean they don't enjoy pleasurable pain themselves, or bondage etc...  They are still in control of the scene - bottoming and topping is simply the position and not the orientation.
 
Peace
the.dark.



MarkMinette -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 4:59:32 AM)

 To make it a very pleasurable experience for both (isn't this the objective?), then knowing what the sub wants/likes/needs is an important factor. Minette, being relatively new to BDSM, I take the concern to explore and communicate with her in order to make it the experience the best I possibly can. To have her tell me what she enjoys or wants (topping from the bottom?) is always welcome input. I don't believe a relationship can prosper without this type of verbal communication. I've been in too many relationships where there were guidelines on what could be discussed or spoken, and I'll never walk that path again.



becca333 -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 6:04:06 AM)

It's a tough line to define - on the one hand, clear communication is vital.  But manipulation is wrong, and it sours the relationship.

I think it depends partly on the sub's motives - are they selfish, or is it an honest attempt to communicate something important. 

I often face this dilemma - I don't want to manipulate him or try to take control, but sometimes a sub just HAS to communicate certain things.



shyinini -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 6:12:37 AM)

I was just reading another forum and came across this....

Topping from the bottom is a scening term which means the bottom is manipulating the scene in the direction s/he wants it to go. Some tops don't mind it but others do. Just like everything else. Once upon a time in a land far far away this was looked upon as bad. Nowadays some tops don't care. Others will stop a scene dead if it's happening. "Symptoms" would be screaming when something doesn't 'really' hurt that bad, moving your body slightly to get them off 'that same dang spot', acting SAMmy to get them to beat you harder, etc.

The term has also been taken into the relationship side of things these days but more correctly would be phrased as 'dominating from your submission' or some such awkward phraseology. LOL I think the main 'symptom' for this may be questioning everything one's dominant does. Remember...submission to someone is a choice. If one has chosen to submit then the trust needs to already be in place BEFORE one agrees. Another symptom would be the pouty submissive. If one does not want to honor their commitment to obedience then that's not the relationship for them I would think.

Remember...submission is a choice. Once that choice is made then it's one's duty to be obedient in whatever areas they've agreed to submit.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 8:06:54 AM)

Shyini,

I would love to know what forum you were reading, my guess would be CastleRealm since whatever you read is largely full of shit.

"Once upon a time in a land far far away" people were exactly the same and my guess is hot cute young boys got away with shit that older less hot men didn't so not exactly sure what land they were talking about.

"topping from the bottom" requires BOTH people to participate.  Just because someone screams louder or moves doesn't mean they are topping from the bottom and to say that pouting is topping from the bottom is silly too.  Now loads of that would irritate me but as the top if I don't change it it becomes my fault.

In essesense, to me, most of topping from the bottom is whiny tops who don't have the balls to deal with their submissive.  If your partner pouts and you back down and let them get their way, who's fault is that? 



BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 8:15:59 AM)

}snip{ topping from the bottom" requires BOTH people to participate."YOU are absolutely correct MICHAEL,any Dom,top,master what ever you may wish to phrase it,is nuts to allow a sub even to attempt to top from the bottom.If a master is tuned into his slut then he and he only will know how to allow her to enjoy what ever pleasures he may allow.If I suspect one may be trying this tactic to get her way she will be slapped down to the bottom of the heap...Of course just the views of this ol" master



Viridana -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 8:52:36 AM)

The only time I've come across this famous phrase "topping from the bottom" is from horny guys whom I barely (or don't) know and are trying to boss me around. When I tell them to fuck off they use it as a catch phrase in the hopes that I'll be so upset by it that I'll obey them. 



MellowSir -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 9:37:20 AM)

Don't all subs "top from the bottom" at first? Being able to pick and choose the dom is a form of power, as is the ability to leave if he/she isn't the perfect dominant....pussy=power



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 9:41:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir
Don't all subs "top from the bottom" at first? Being able to pick and choose the dom is a form of power, as is the ability to leave if he/she isn't the perfect dominant....pussy=power

You have to be ON the bottom before you can top from the bottom.

When choosing a partner, you're not a bottom or sub to anyone, you're just you.



ExSteelAgain -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 9:50:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Don't all subs "top from the bottom" at first? Being able to pick and choose the dom is a form of power, as is the ability to leave if he/she isn't the perfect dominant....pussy=power


Mellow, I have to disagree with you there. I like to think it is the Dom picking and choosing. If you meet either real time or online, sooner or later, the D/s order is going to surface. It certainly doesn't mean the sub is picking and choosing her Dom.



WhiplashSmile -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 10:34:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shyinini

This morning Sir said "yes boss" to me.  eeeeek!!
I was telling him to get plenty of fluids cause coffee dehydrates and he loves his coffee and he has had a bit of heat stroke these last few days.
When it comes to taking care of him I tend to get a bit bossy I guess.  Is that still topping from the bottom?
 
I consider topping attempting to take control and while I do not do it consciously, there are times when I can be so concerned, I just want to do something.  I had learned to NOT do anything.  So I bury my head, have a good cry for a bit and go on with patience.
 
I never top during any sexual activity.
 
Sir's property

LOL...  I've actually said "Yes Boss" to similar things as well.   Mainly when I damn well know they are 100% right about something.   Now, I may or may not do.. what she's expressed.  I have my share of well, not so good habits at times, or do things that raise concern.   If it's something that's a major issue I will take a time-out and talk about it.   "Yes Boss"!  There are a number of my vanilla friends that refer to their women as "The Boss".    Where they will consult "The Boss" before doing something that may upset their partner if they are unaware of it.   Most "Bosses" I know are pretty kewl about things as long as communication is used!   Hell to pay if "the boss" is not kept in the looped about WTF is going on.   Nothing like the sight a seeing another mans pissed off "Boss"...

But Even us DOMs at times require somebody to stop us dead in our tracks and make us think about WTF we are or are not doing!  A little topping from the bottom is not such an evil thing at times, at least in the manner you express.  It shows us Doms that you sub/slaves really do care and have a mind of your own. 



MissyRane -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 11:06:44 AM)

[8|] I wonder for how many seconds I would last if I were to bottom 24/7



YourShyPet -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 1:52:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Don't all subs "top from the bottom" at first? Being able to pick and choose the dom is a form of power, as is the ability to leave if he/she isn't the perfect dominant....pussy=power


Mellow, I have to disagree with you there. I like to think it is the Dom picking and choosing. If you meet either real time or online, sooner or later, the D/s order is going to surface. It certainly doesn't mean the sub is picking and choosing her Dom.



<giggles and thinks.... all the years I've been in the lifestyle I've had many male and a few female Doms try to pick me...but for some odd reason.... it just never worked out for them.. giggles some more>

kittin



ExSteelAgain -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 3:26:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourShyPet

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Don't all subs "top from the bottom" at first? Being able to pick and choose the dom is a form of power, as is the ability to leave if he/she isn't the perfect dominant....pussy=power


Mellow, I have to disagree with you there. I like to think it is the Dom picking and choosing. If you meet either real time or online, sooner or later, the D/s order is going to surface. It certainly doesn't mean the sub is picking and choosing her Dom.



<giggles and thinks.... all the years I've been in the lifestyle I've had many male and a few female Doms try to pick me...but for some odd reason.... it just never worked out for them.. giggles some more>

kittin


<Guffaws and thinks....I'm sure you have no rivals. I'm just talking about mere mortals.



Sinergy -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 4:45:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: texaskristy

PairofDimes,
I didn't realize there were dominant bottoms. So dominants sometimes like to be tied up and/or spanked too?




Hello texaskristy,

I will take a crack at this, although most usages of the term "topping from the bottom" is used perjoratively.

To answer your question, allow me to clarify a few of the terms I will be using.  These are how I use them, your mileage may vary.

A Dominant is the person who runs the show.  That person makes the calls.  Decides what is going to happen, when, how, etc.  In my case, while I dont really give a good gawd damn whether I am in charge or not, most of my life I have found myself in situations where I ended up running things.  Perhaps it is persuasiveness or charisma or stubbornness or whatever, but Dominant seems to be how I identify.

A submissive is the person who does not wish to run the show.  They enjoy being surprised.  They enjoy having somebody else decide what they will be doing.  Perhaps they enjoy being thrown on the bed and used.  It is a situation where the person not only does not want to be in charge, they tend to identify with and want to be around those who are in charge.

It is a personality thing, in my mind.

A Top in a scene is frequently a Dominant or a Switch (switched Up) but not necessarily.  They are the one, for purposes of that scene, who is inflicting the stimuli on the other person, who would be the bottom.

Scening comes about when people have their sex drive and the glandular effects of pain on their central nervous system linked up.  They get tied up, beaten, used, whatever., their body produces endorphins of various types to combat the stimuli, and the mental stimuli is perceived as pleasurable.  It is a sensory, kineasthetic thing.

So to answer your question, a Dominant (personality) who enjoyed the glandular effects of bottoming in a scene (sensory) would not have a problem with being tied up and used.  This would not necessarily make that Dominant any more of a Dominant person.  It just means they enjoy getting off the same way (submissive) bottoms do.

Clear as mud?

Sinergy




KnightofMists -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 5:30:33 PM)

 
First:
 
My take on the Term “Topping from the Bottom”

The phrase implies some basic definition into the label Top and Bottom.  In essence, when people use this phrase they are indicating that TOP is not only the giver of the action within a scene, but they are also in control of the scene as well.  It also indicates that to bottom is to receive the action of play and give up control of what shall occur.  These definitions actually cause many people a lot of problems in that it is combining two concepts and interpreting them as one.  Being able to look at these concepts separately will allow a person to better the concepts.

Consider first that TOP is the giver of action (behavior) within play,  While the bottom is the receiver of action (behavior) within play.  It should be noted that an action or behavior is not inherently Dominant or submissive in nature.  As an example; Oral sex!  Both Dominant and submissives alike perform the act, therefore the act itself doesn’t define Dominance or submission some other construct does.

Therefore, what is the other construct that determines Dominance or submission?
My answer is Motivation!  It is the individual’s motivation of performing the action or behavior that will dictate Dominance/submission.  Specifically it is the motivation of having or giving up of control in the choices of the actions that will occur.  The person’s motivation will decide who has the authority/control within the dynamics of the scene.

The below diagram is to help understand how this works.

                                  
                                Top
                              (Giver)
                                  |
                                  |
                                  |
Dom--------------------------------------- Sub    < Motivation(control) axis
(Dominate)                 |                   (Submit)
                                  |
                                  |
                              Bottom
                            (receiver)

                                  ^
                       Action(Behavior) axis


In appreciating that a bottom is the receiver of the action of the Top.  The appropriate phrase instead of “Topping from the Bottom” would be “Dominating from the Bottom”! 
 

Second

Your questions

quote:

Are there any subs out there who like to or do Top from the bottom in a Ds relationship?


If you changed the term to Dominating from the bottom... yes... but it being acceptable in the relationship or not is another thing all together.

quote:

If so, what does this entail?


it really depends on the relationship... what it entails will be different for every relationship that it occurs in.

quote:

  Do you do it consciously or unconsciously?


The answer will depend on the relationships.. some yes.. some no.. some Both.. some I don't know





LadyHeart -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 6:00:29 PM)

For a lot of submissives, they have a fantasy that they want played out. They might have been to a pro Domme who is perfectly happy to enact their scene for them. But if that's ALL they want, then I'm not interested in them. I ask submissives about their fantasies, to get an idea of what their buttons are and how to push them. When it suits me, they will be rewarded with it. I elicit feedback so I know what's working and what's not. But when it comes to someone demanding that I do what they want, then my philosophy is: Ask and it shall not be given. I'm not doing this for money, I'm doing it for fun, and there's no fun for me in being used as a pawn in someone else's game
:))
LH



Danka1888 -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 6:14:27 PM)

We are 24/7 TPE. No chance in hell my girl tops me, not even in the bedroom. Her little panties soak from me being in charge all the time.



taintedgypsy -> RE: Topping from the bottom (6/19/2007 6:49:05 PM)

This has been a most interesting thread and I thank all who have posted ... I have taken a step back from BDSM for a while due to personal problems ... however I have wondered a lot about this topic ... I identify as a submissive and yet I tend to chalenge things ... I am gentle and giving by nature but have a streak of hell fire ... I love a flowing skirt and serving tea in fine china to guests yet am also happy in steel cap boots working in a quarry .... I have come to the decission that I can not look for control from annother until I have mastered some control of myself hence my  present journey in a self awareness course and some counselling ... I think when I have been accused of topping from the bottom (which was more in line with a training exercise/warning than a true accusation, I know he would never allow it to become a serious problem as he simply would not tollerate it) ... it has been more from the confussion within myself, than a lack of respect, a confussion that interferes with my ability to trust.

Just my thought lol and probbly more random than making sense



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