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You loser - 6/6/2005 4:38:21 PM

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Did the subject line get your attention? Did it turn you on? Probably, it annoyed you.

I used that subject line to ask about verbal humiliation. I've used verbal humiliation in the context of an overall bdsm situation -- where it's clear to the man that I'm not saying the things in a strictly mean-spirited manner. That said, I don't say things like, "You loser," or "You are such a fucking idiot" or "What are you, a moron?" -- The things I say are more teasing, playful, or seductive. Visualize a male sub who's been gagged and tormented and is just starting to drool, and the femdom takes his cheek in her hand and looks him in the eyes and says, "Aww....you look so pathetic" -- but the tone is almost *affectionate*.

Contrast that to a woman with her hands on her hips looking down at a man on the floor and saying in her most bitchy, sneering voice, "You stupid loser! You are a pathetic piece of shit! I can't stand the sight of you. Go ahead and cry, you big baby, you're a pathetic piece of garbage!"

Is the second scenario a serious hot button for subs into humiliation? Is it more edgy, more exciting? Does it do anything for you?

I can see how it might be powerful in the context of an agreed-upon scene or situation. However, it seems that some femdoms use this tone in their content on their web site -- as if to say, that's their normal demeanor, and their reader (the male sub) is that "loser." Do subs who are into humiliation get off on simply reading text that is brutally demeaning?

Just curious,

Akasha

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RE: You loser - 6/6/2005 5:02:15 PM

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I wouldn't get into dishing out scenario #2. But that is because I like a little affection in my humiliation like you demonstrated in scenario #1. But that's me. I'm sure some people thrive on #2 as it seems to be popular!

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: You loser - 6/6/2005 7:55:02 PM

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Joined: 10/28/2004
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This is an interesting question as certain forms of humiliation interest and arouse me - I'm a fairly new male sub - and I"m still trying to sort out what makes some good and some bad for me, and what makes the difference.

I can say that approach #2 personally leaves me cold, it just seems mean for meanness sake and there seems to be no joy for either side, but I guess it works for some. Or is that style just a myth from movies of what female domination is supposed to be like that actually appeals to no one?

I would also add, however, that I think there is an area between #1 and 2 that works where the language and style is still a little rougher - loser, moron, dumbass, etc. - but where there is a least still some fun to it, even if that fun is mainly for the Mistress at least the sub gets to see she is having fun at the subs expense, or perhaps there are occasional notes or acknowledgements that the Mistress actually likes the slave, or at least what he does for her behalf or amusement, whereas scenario #2 just sounds like one person being nasty and the other person enduring it. I usually see or think of these mixed 1 and 2 things in a spoiled Princess/eager or devoted slave sort of scenario. Humiliatrix.com has some things in this vein and there are some "Loser" Yahoo groups and at least one MSN group that have this sort of theme and some good captioned pics or stories. I don't know if we're allowed to post links in messages and I don't want this to seem like an ad but they are out there if you're interested and want to see more.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: You loser - 6/6/2005 8:52:43 PM

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Joined: 5/29/2005
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quote:

The things I say are more teasing, playful, or seductive. Visualize a male sub who's been gagged and tormented and is just starting to drool, and the femdom takes his cheek in her hand and looks him in the eyes and says, "Aww....you look so pathetic" -- but the tone is almost *affectionate*.

Contrast that to a woman with her hands on her hips looking down at a man on the floor and saying in her most bitchy, sneering voice, "You stupid loser! You are a pathetic piece of shit! I can't stand the sight of you. Go ahead and cry, you big baby, you're a pathetic piece of garbage!"

Is the second scenario a serious hot button for subs into humiliation? Is it more edgy, more exciting? Does it do anything for you?

I'm no expert on male bottoms, but those I've topped with others around seem to love having women gawk at their bodies and make comments. Imagine a naked man standing, his feet in stocks and his wrists bound above him, chains reaching to the ceiling. I haven't noticed a difference between the reaction to "Ginger, check out these abs" and "what a pathetic little - you call that a penis?" - I consider both verbal humiliation.

Male bottoms (mostly bisexual or gay, if that has anything to do with it) I've spoken with about this have said the vulgar language gets old fast. They want something just as demeaning, but something that bites harder. Something more intelligent and personal that really digs into the psyche.

With a woman, if I pull out one well-placed vulgar slur every once in a great while, I get to see her body go through several shades of color while her thighs get wet. On the other hand, I don't have a lot of luck with your first scenario. Maybe it's just me and my delivery.

I think I've made my highest marks with combining verbal humiliation and abandonment scenes of various flavors. Seems like an add-on though.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: You loser - 6/6/2005 9:49:46 PM

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My initial reaction to the subject line was curiosity. As far as humiliation is concerned, I don't respond to it at all so it's meaningless for me as a submissive. I have seen many profiles where the Domme comes across in the raw, coarse fashion you describe and I always feel as if the person doesn't have much self-awareness or is a genuine newbie.

What I would respond to is not humiliation so much as words and actions that would reinforce my inferior position in relation to my Dominant partner.

anthrosub

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RE: You loser - 6/6/2005 11:40:31 PM

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Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
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You might enjoy these threads:

verbal humiliation

idle curiosity re verbal humiliation

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RE: You loser - 6/6/2005 11:45:30 PM

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Read the title and thought it was another rant. Glad i checked it out anyways. Personally, i think A would be more interesting. As B sounds like the person could careless about the individual and personally when people dont care, it doesnt matter what comes out of their mouth. Though when there is a touch of care, affection... it means more.

(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: You loser - 6/7/2005 4:37:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelBondager
Male bottoms (mostly bisexual or gay, if that has anything to do with it) I've spoken with about this have said the vulgar language gets old fast. They want something just as demeaning, but something that bites harder. Something more intelligent and personal that really digs into the psyche.

Oh I agree with you 100%, though I believe this applies to most bottoms. I've always said good humiliation play is about getting inside the submissive’s head. The most successful humiliation play I have had was when I understood what exactly was humiliating to my sub.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelBondager
With a woman, if I pull out one well-placed vulgar slur every once in a great while, I get to see her body go through several shades of color while her thighs get wet. On the other hand, I don't have a lot of luck with your first scenario. Maybe it's just me and my delivery.like an add-on though.

That is because you have understood 2 important principles: Quality vs. quantity and la modération a bon goût (pardon the French but I don't know this expression in English, something like - moderation is in good taste?)

- LA

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RE: You loser - 6/7/2005 4:00:11 PM

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Joined: 10/28/2004
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I would definitely agree with SteelBondager and Lady Angelika in the messages above. When I saw an ad for phone or in person domination - you know, back when I used to look at such things : ^ ) - and it was a string of vulgar words or names it turned me off and gave me the impression the person didn't really understand this scene and was just trying to make some money. It does get old fast and shows a lack of creativity, though it may also indicate an impressively large vocabulary of vulgarity.

And I agree knowing or finding the right items in the sub leads to a much more succesful round. The most successful humiliation moments I've experienced were when the Mistress came up with an especially cutting line or picked up on some aspect of my personality or past. To borrow a quote from the profile of a friend of mine ""The burning of humiliation can be far more fulfilling than the throbbing of an orgasm".

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: You loser - 6/8/2005 10:38:27 AM

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Of course I'm not a man so my perspective could be considered biassed. But, the first scene you gave would give me a twinge of excitement, but I would feel a little bad. The second scene would be just aweful - to me. I wouldn't like it at all.

I think there is a difference between humiliation and degration. I think humiliation exposes a person's inner desires and torments them a bit. Degrating someone makes them feel worthless and less of a person...that sort of stuff leads to depression and suicide in a lot of people. But that's just my take on it.

Of course though, as always, I'm sure there are many people who like the second scene. If it rocks their boat, then all is well! Wouldn't rock mine though.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: You loser - 6/12/2005 8:29:51 PM

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From: Ohio
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Actually for me it would take someone like Lady Angelika to get to me in verbal humiliation! First off, having been in the Marines there isn't much that can be said to me off hand that would matter. However, someone who took the time to get to know me, my strong points and weak and sensative stuff; then aplied it in an artfull, intuitive and unexpected manner would score! I can't figure how off hand humiliations could hold their meaning for long? But, to each their own! I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's how I see it!

< Message edited by ProScatman -- 6/12/2005 8:39:49 PM >

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RE: You loser - 6/12/2005 8:59:13 PM

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Joined: 6/18/2004
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I wish i understood verbal humilation. I don't get it..........well at least i think? I kinda figure if Thorns wants to verbally humiliate me......Ok! go ahead, i don't get it, but if that pleases Him...then Ok..great...that's the point. I still don't get it though.

Perhaps someday i will understand a bit more....and look forward to learning that.

Happy Sunday y'all...

~smilezz~

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RE: You loser - 6/12/2005 9:03:43 PM

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Joined: 6/11/2005
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I tend to think it's linked to your personality.....I tend to be a bit more cerebral rather than visceral. By that I mean that I "get off" more on the mental aspects of controling the other person. Of getting into their head and finding out what makes them squirm, either in arousal or nervousness, and using that, rather than the infliction of any physical controls, such as bondage and pain. Not that I don't enjoy those things, but it's more the context than the things themselves. I've never really been an out and out submissive in a relationship, so I can't really speak for what other guys who are submissive get out of such language, but i'd think it's like anything else, just depends on the person.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: You loser - 6/12/2005 10:41:00 PM

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Joined: 4/14/2005
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I like being treated a little kid or pet. So saying something like "you're such a good girl" in a condencending tone can be humiliating.

But I like being called a whore, slut, etc, and being told that I enjoy something that I'm not (at least, that I don't appear to be enjoying."

I do NOT enjoy assaults on my intelligence. Maybe it's because it's something I pride myself on. Instead of feeling humiliated, if someone calls me stupid I get pissed. So, you're welcome to try it, but it's not going to make me feel submissive.

(in reply to testlimit)

RE: You loser - 6/13/2005 3:11:20 AM

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I really like verbal humiliation. I have read the text on some professional websites, and I think it's a turn off, although I do enjoy reading it in erotica.
In my relationships, I enjoy verbal humiliation- both the first and second examples that you mentioned. Being spoken to in that manner lets me sink into my submissiveness a bit more, and sometimes it provides me with direction. If I'm being called a dirty slut, I'm going to act like one. One partner of mine says "Look at YOU, you're all *insert descripion here*. It makes me feel objectified, and that's hot. *to me*
B

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RE: You loser - 6/13/2005 4:42:59 AM

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Like RiotGirl, I thought it was going to be a rant (against Married men for some reason, lol)...

I didn't really have any emotional reaction to the thread title. But then I don't really go in for humiliation in a scene sort of sense. I don't know whether that's because I naturally feel a little humililated (not exactly) or embarrassed or something now and then in life anyway ~ just my sensitive nature, I think. I don't need or want someone to do it to me purposefully in a scene.

~ Elektra

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RE: You loser - 6/13/2005 7:43:26 AM

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well, all of Y/you who wrote helped me better undersatnd verbal humiliation -- but i would never be able to accept it. i had a difficult childhood and a difficult marriage and more than enough people have spoken harshly to me to last a lifetime.

i realise it's not the same but i think i'd never be able to separate the two (past and present) so it's a hard limit for me, including being called whore, slut, etc. i want a Dom who will treat me as a person of worth and dignity even when i'm tied to the bedposts and blindfolded. i need to be able to trust Him i that regard. humiliation play wouldd just devastate me. but i do have a fuller understanding of what it is, and why some find it fulfilling, and for that i'm very appreciative. fillepink

(in reply to ElektraUkM)

RE: You loser - 6/13/2005 4:05:11 PM

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quote:

Actually for me it would take someone like Lady Angelika to get to me in verbal humiliation!

Aww! What a sweet thing to say. I have actually introduced many people to verbal humiliation, even those who either didn't get it or like in the case of my boy, who had an aversion to it (his father verbally abused his mother when he was growing up and therefore it took a lot of rewiring).

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: You loser - 6/20/2005 10:48:43 PM

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Joined: 6/19/2005
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If you are a true sub/slave, all humiliation both verbal and physical are super. These all emphasize the superiority of your Domme especially in front of her friends. I am not humiliated, I feel proud to be subjected to these acts.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: You loser - 6/21/2005 2:46:22 PM

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neilnrimmer,

In general, we don't like one true wayisms here, ie: there is no one right way to be a slave/sub, dom/me, sadist, masochist, switch, man, woman... you get the picture?

That little bit of advice might help you not get flammed by everyone here...

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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