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How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad past ex... - 6/29/2007 11:44:18 PM   
winterlight


Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline 		What do U do to help Your sub/slave in regards to a possibly violent past that she was victim to?

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 12:04:13 AM   
LadyHeart


Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Start by finding out as much as you can about what did or didn't happen. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so you need to know what you are dealing with. Well meaning interference might make things worse. Work with her cooperation. Dont play guessing games. There is a lot that can be done, but building her trust is the place to start.
:))
LH

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(in reply to winterlight)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 12:26:19 AM   
taintedgypsy


Posts: 228
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with everything LadyHeart has said but would like to add a note of caution from personal experience. His attempts to help me deal with my past all but destroyed our relationship, some healing can only be done from within and some things are best done with the help of professionals that are not involved with you. It can back fire and undo any trust that has been built no matter how good the intentions are.

I wish you well

_____________________________

..."Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... It is about learning to dance in the rain."

Equal Opportunity Slut (Yeah ... best of both worlds lol)

warm smiles to all

(in reply to LadyHeart)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 1:11:34 AM   
Dini


Posts: 44
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline 		I have to agree whole heartedly with both Lady H and taintedgypsey… I am a counsellor and a therapist and have been working with submissives in our local scene for quite a few years. If the Dom/me has enough knowledge and depending on the actual nature of the trauma being dealt with, it can be amazing to work through with your Dom/me since the level of trust and understanding and even sharing that is the foundation of a true D/s relationship is very conducive to healing… BUT this is a natural progression, something that may or may not happen when the submissive is ready… then they hit the “wall” in a scene and break through… at these times it may be as little as a soft hand running down My bots back that pushes him through to that place where the healing tears begin to flow and aten the emotions come to the fore. I have seen submissives, and not only My own, heal issues that they did not even know they had during an intense play…

However a word of caution, your Domme is not a professional ( well many are not) and only the person involved can truly tell when the issue is one that needs professional intervention. Some things need to de dealt with before playing the more intense levels…  

Dini

(in reply to taintedgypsy)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 2:01:48 AM   
SubinMaine


Posts: 1888
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline 		i also agree with all of the above....

Trust is the key, information is paramount and patience, lots and lots of patience.  Depending on the severeity of the subs past bad experience, the Dom/me may be able help Their sub only so far and acceptance of that by the Dom/me is important as well.  Encouragement to seek outside help (counseling etc.) on matters that are proving difficult to overcome should be offered.

As long as the Dominant remembers that the issues won't be fixed overnight, and are willing to put in the time and energy required to assist the sub...the trust will start to outweigh the issue.  At least, that's how it worked for me *smile*




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That which yields is not always weak...

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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 2:26:38 AM   
wwwkevinww


Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		I had a some trama/bad experiences regarding therapists, so basically I don't trust them.....Any issues i have I rather work it out with loved ones or ignore it and hope any issues I have  goes away
Often you can just go into denial and that will solve alot of issues.  Denial is one of the steps on the road to recovery.....

Have you ever had someone wrong you and then tell you life isn't fair?  Life isn't always fair, but that doesn't give someone the right to not treat you fairly....

I think some things are better left forgotten, especially tramatic ones.....therapists like most people make their money off your problems, and solving your problems doesn't actually pay their bills, they aren't really in the business of solving your problems so much as listen to you babble, make you believe something is being done, and collect your money......

Meanwhile the people who really care about you, you can talk to them for free, might not have the best advice in mind, and might not be the most compassionate or trained in counseling, but therapy is over-rated....

People basically made up another way to get money out of people, Freud made this method up, similiar to L Ron Hubbard's scientologist people (not sure which came first, both have similiar ideas of sitting on a couch talking about past events). 

psychology is a soft science, meaning its mostly just a bunch of theories without alot of proof behind them.  Either you beleive it, because it sounds reasonable, or you don't.  Alot of bad things have been done in the name of psychology, with lobotomizing peeps to throwing people on mind altering drugs that actually causes what its supposed to cure in many cases (throw a normal person on anti-psychotics and watch them become psychotic)....They still do electrical therapy, which causes memory loss and who knows what else, electrical charges to the brain is barbaric imho......

(in reply to SubinMaine)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 2:34:22 AM   
laineyjade


Posts: 56
Joined: 6/4/2007
Status: offline 		Being a therapist myself, I would rather trust myself and my much more intimate knowledge of the slave than trust a possibly incompetent or disinterested therapist, who, first of all, has little or no idea of the submissive psychology. Depending on the nature of the violent incident, there could be an anxiety disorder or a post-traumatic stress disorder to deal with as well as the old trauma. It's hard to give such general advice without knowing what triggers the person and how they respond. For example, if you've got someone who is unable to have full sexual enjoyment because of a violent rape, and the trigger causes them to dissociate into self-harming, that is something which will have to be addressed very intensely. If, on the other hand, the person hates zucchini because their evil stepmother crammed it down their throat till they vomited when they were a child, then it may be best to simply forget about introducing zucchini into their life and leave it alone.

I agree with everyone else that tiny steps, lots of feedback, and enormous amounts of patience and unconditional love will be needed no matter what happened.

(in reply to wwwkevinww)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 2:36:18 AM   
Dane


Posts: 25
Joined: 5/12/2007
Status: offline 		Aack, sorry about the post above: I didn't realize the forum had left my slave, laineyjade, logged in. I am the poster, not she *S*

(in reply to laineyjade)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 2:43:22 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		It depends on how much has been worked through already.  What words or actions might trigger bad reactions?  Does she want to get through this, or forget it, or relive it and try to deal with it that way?

This can be dangerous territory.  For both your sakes, have some kind of professional checking done, and get an idea how to go from there.  But having someone who cares enough to try to help is a huge plus.  Just take it slow and careful. 

(in reply to wwwkevinww)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 3:07:16 AM   
Jez223


Posts: 13
Joined: 6/29/2007
Status: offline 		Try and be open minded, communicate and empathize with the person. Be greateful that that person has chosen to be so open with you.

Respect.

(in reply to winterlight)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 4:31:35 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		I believe it's the sub/slaves "responsibility" to inform the Dominant of issues that may hinder play....relationship...etc.   If it is a past issue, i would hope that the person has had some form of counseling to help them.

If a person is coming into a relationship with past issues........why?  why has that person not gotten those things solved or on the road to being free from those demons?.   Yes, i am fully aware that most people do have some form of baggage that has accumulated along the way....my opinion on this has never been a popular one.......but, quite honestly........fix it!  get out of the past and into the here and now and enjoy life!.  Life is to short to be held down by what terrible thing happened in your past.  (and yes, i have been there)

If a person is going into a relationship and said Dominant is fully aware of past issues and is willing to help....only thing they can do is be supportive.

Happy Saturday!

~smilezz~

_____________________________

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(in reply to winterlight)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 5:39:08 AM   
amiciaN


Posts: 228
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz

I believe it's the sub/slaves "responsibility" to inform the Dominant of issues that may hinder play....relationship...etc.   If it is a past issue, i would hope that the person has had some form of counseling to help them.

If a person is coming into a relationship with past issues........why?  why has that person not gotten those things solved or on the road to being free from those demons?.   Yes, i am fully aware that most people do have some form of baggage that has accumulated along the way....my opinion on this has never been a popular one.......but, quite honestly........fix it!  get out of the past and into the here and now and enjoy life!.  Life is to short to be held down by what terrible thing happened in your past.  (and yes, i have been there)

If a person is going into a relationship and said Dominant is fully aware of past issues and is willing to help....only thing they can do is be supportive.

Happy Saturday!

~smilezz~


I think you have a good point about needing to be on the road to being free of the demons from one's past.  However, sometimes it is not so much baggage or demons that must be dealt with but plain old habit.  I had been with my ex husband for almost 20 years and in the end the relationship had become abusive.  While I am definitely past the major issues from that relationship and other parts of my past (thanks to 3+ years of therapy) I find I still have some faulty communication habits to work on.  Especially if I am under stress (or pms) I can react emotionally and 'assume' something NChaka says is meant the same way it was meant by my ex.  My response is not based on what was said, but on reflex and habit.  Of course this is wrong on my part, and I do it less and less, but it does still happen.  When it does, either Master will say something to the effect of "I'm not your ex," or I will catch myself and apologize, as I am damn grateful that He is nothing like my ex.  Rather than get angry with me, NChaka understands it for what it is and we keep working on making new patterns that work for us.

NChaka is also fully aware of the other 'issues' in my past and has been accepting and supportive of those things that are simply a part of who I am, just as I am accepting and supportive of Him, with all His strengths and faults.  We are closely matched in interests, our strengths and weaknesses complement the other's, our 'world views' are compatible, and we both find we are freer to be who we truly are together than we ever were before.  We are long distance for at least another year and a half and believe me, if it weren't so close to perfect*, it wouldn't be worth working this damned hard to hang on to it!

If I must choose one thing that has helped me 'get over the past', it is Nchaka's acceptance of me in my entirety, including that past and who it has made me.  (Thank You Master!  )

btw smilezz-- I saw your post about "32 days... 10 seconds".  I am down to 11 days, 11 hours and 19 minutes until Master will be here for three weeks!   Hang in there! 

*Perfect is not obtainable, however our relationship is definitely excellent! 


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NChaka's amicia

I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 6:01:06 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dini

However a word of caution, your Domme is not a professional ( well many are not) and only the person involved can truly tell when the issue is one that needs professional intervention. Some things need to de dealt with before playing the more intense levels…  

Dini


I thought this was important enough to be read again.
 
John

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Dini)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 6:36:54 AM   
amiciaN


Posts: 228
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline 		I agree Rover.  I would never ask NChaka to be a subsitute therapist.  It is not His area of expertise and I definitely needed a professional!    

I am extremely grateful to my therapist for his commitment to his profession and to me, and I'm very thankful for finally finding the right match for me.  I had made multiple attempts at therapy years ago and without the right match of client/therapist, it won't work.  That's not to say that therapy is wonderful... it's not.  The results are wonderful, but going through the therapy itself often sucks.  It can be painful, difficult and can even make things seem like they are getting worse before they get better.  But when one finally gets through worst of it and things do start to improve, the world suddenly becomes a brand new place. 

For those who were/are unhappy with your therapist, it will make a huge difference in the effectiveness of therapy.  Often, the therapist is just as uncomfortable with the relationship, but they are often bound by professional/office standards that dictate when and why they can choose not to continue with a particular client.  If things aren't working, please say so!  Therapy is commitment between two people, and just like in any other relationship, if the parties involved aren't compatible, the relationship isn't going to be productive.

Just my humble opinion and what I have heard those I've spoken with who are engaged in providing therapy agree with when they are in a position to speak freely.


_____________________________

NChaka's amicia

I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

(in reply to Rover)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 7:28:25 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		First I never, ever use the word "victim". Is she there with you? He is interacting with you? Then they survived.

Why is that important to me? I think survivor is more empowering than victim. Much of what survivors struggle with is feeling out of control. Just because someone might want to give up control to another that doesn't mean that they want to be out of control with others or in other aspects of their life.

Second, I'd encourage or maybe even insist they start some therapy program. It may take some time to find a good program.

Third, you start some therapy program too -- you'll probably only need someone to talk to every now and then and you can read some good books about being partners with a survivor. Her/his issues though will affect you. Tom and Fox both go to therapy with me once every month or so and Tom read a lot of books before we got married.

Fourth, know your own limitations and honor them. The past is something each of us much deal with ourself, no one else can deal with it for us. No matter how much authority or power you may have in your relationship by being only human you are limited. Having unrealistic expectations of yourself will only wear you down.

Fifth, know that none of this is fast. The intensity and duration of abuse is one factor in learning to cope better but so is the individual personality and the quality of help. Again having unrealistic expectations will only lead to disappointment.

Also keep in mind that you don't "get over" abuse -- you deal with it and then learn how to spot common negative behaviors based on it and then you take steps to stop those.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 6/30/2007 7:32:28 AM >

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to winterlight)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 7:48:38 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		1) Find out if they're ready to consciously work on the issue(s). If not, it'll just feel like more abuse. You cannot fix anyone but yourself, so they have to be willing to fix themselves. The facillitators just provide the atmosphere.
2) Get them in to see a good therapist, one that's lifestyle friendly, if at all possible. Facillitators do not have to be therapists. We, again, just provide the atmosphere.
3) Find the triggers (landmines) and work with them. Understand that sometimes, the only way to defuse a landmine is to stomp on it.
4) Stop the processes whenever the experiencer wants it to stop. THEY control their healing...it's part of the empowerment process; to realize they have the power (and the responsibility) to not be victims any more.
5) Get the person's spirituality involved. Even if you're an atheist and see all spirituality as a construct with which we delude ourselves...it can often be a handy constuct to get in touch with the "inner places" that need to be touched in order to heal.
6) Never, ever, feel that you can't ask for help. Do so and do so often.

Master Fire


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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to winterlight)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 7:55:16 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laineyjade

Being a therapist myself, I would rather trust myself and my much more intimate knowledge of the slave than trust a possibly incompetent or disinterested therapist, who, first of all, has little or no idea of the submissive psychology. Depending on the nature of the violent incident, there could be an anxiety disorder or a post-traumatic stress disorder to deal with as well as the old trauma. It's hard to give such general advice without knowing what triggers the person and how they respond. For example, if you've got someone who is unable to have full sexual enjoyment because of a violent rape, and the trigger causes them to dissociate into self-harming, that is something which will have to be addressed very intensely. If, on the other hand, the person hates zucchini because their evil stepmother crammed it down their throat till they vomited when they were a child, then it may be best to simply forget about introducing zucchini into their life and leave it alone.

I agree with everyone else that tiny steps, lots of feedback, and enormous amounts of patience and unconditional love will be needed no matter what happened.


While I agree that a person with close connections to another has many insights not available to a professional therapist in the work setting, as a therapist I'm surprised that you are not concerned with issues of transference and projection, not to mention ethical considerations, in 'treating' your signficant other.  It's not at all uncommon for abuse victims  to identify a therapist with their abuser during the course of therapy. The therapist has the professional detachment to deal with this. In an intimate relationship, especially one of unequal power, many additional difficulties arise.  While a person with good professional training and experience and strong ethics CAN effectively treat a loved one,  it would not be my first suggestion, and for those without a significant background (going to therapy doesn't count), it's really asking for trouble. 
I believe that finding a good therapist with appropriate sensitivities is a better course, as difficult as it may be. This allows the SO to be an emotionally supportive friend without becoming fully entangled in the process of dealing with trauma- which itself is traumatic.

(in reply to laineyjade)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 8:05:58 AM   
taintedgypsy


Posts: 228
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		My Sir said to me "you drove a Holden XF once and it broke down so now you won't drive any Holdens because one was unreliable you deem that all are unreliable?" He has a valid point. I had a terrible experience with a "professional" 10yrs ago and ran screaming in the other direction ... hence I survived as best I could. I raised my daughter, worked, looked after lifes responsibilities and went from one shallow relationship to annother; never ever really happy because my emotions were crippled and the only thing I knew how to do was survive.

Here I am 10yrs later and finally working my way through to a better future, with the help of some really wonderful professionals, one of which understood perfectly that I felt uncomfortable and was quite happy for me to see someone else. I get stronger every week and the difference it has made in my life after a relatively short period of time is quite amazing. I sit back and wonder why I let one bad experience and fear put off healing for a decade. Therapists, phycologists, professionals are human like everyone else, there are going to be good ones and bad ones, ones that you click with and work for you and others that it just is not right. To ignore a whole avenue of help because "they are all bad" I find sort of sad because it was where I was, however this is only my view and I wish everyone the best of luck with what works for them.

May we all find happiness in our own way.




_____________________________

..."Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... It is about learning to dance in the rain."

Equal Opportunity Slut (Yeah ... best of both worlds lol)

warm smiles to all

(in reply to wwwkevinww)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 8:09:12 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Find her a list of therapists experienced in this trauma, and have her interview them to find one she clicks with who is also knowledgable on power relationships.

Then after they've established a relationship you go in once and ask the therapist's advice.

But for me, as for Tammyjo, the choice of the word victim over survivor is upsetting. Being highly cynical it makes me wonder; Did you go looking for someone wounded who would be easier to dominate? Do you have a white knight complex? Why are you with a victim as opposed to a strong person with a complex past?

(in reply to CitizenCane)
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RE: How do U help Your sub/slaves to get over a bad pas... - 6/30/2007 9:47:13 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

What do U do to help Your sub/slave in regards to a possibly violent past that she was victim to?




Support them. And help them find a qualified person with actual training who uses methods that will actually help.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to winterlight)
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