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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/7/2007 4:01:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
What did everyone think those types of play entailed?

Pillow Fights?

LMAO

I actually had someone once trying to explain to me that primal/extreme physical play was actually nothing more than the Dom/Master pinching. Even after trying to explain that it could be much more than that...they insisted that I was delusional and lived in a fantasy world.

/sigh

If that's the case...give me fantasy any day

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/7/2007 7:41:29 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The martial arts may be second only to BDSM for making up history and tradition for what it is that they do....

Second? Move over, BDSM, I say.

Count speculative history, and it only gets worse.

quote:

The actual names for the various systems practiced in the many villages and families, were whatever the people handing them down felt like calling them.

Or, more likely, whatever some person receiving down the line felt like calling them.

Those who have something to teach are usually more busy teaching than naming, IME.

(Once people start organizing things, it's a bit different, but that's usually after the fact, I think.)

quote:

And then from China, we have the GungFu/KungFu misnomer still fed from ongoing Bruce Lee worship.

Transliteration errors aren't all that unreasonable.

Just look at ju-jutsu. People stick i's wherever they feel like it, and sometimes dock a u.
Of course, for all I know, my transliteration could be wrong, too.
Someone had the bright idea of switching once.
That made everything easier, as planned.
Just not for everyone.

Seems a bit odd for people to worship Lee. I don't think he'd want that. His wife said he was very fond of Krishnamurti's teachings. Particularly the one about how each person needs to find their own way, be their own light, rather than follow some religious figurehead. This thinking is evidenced in Lee's teachings.

That said, he really opened people's eyes to some aspects of MA, and the difference between training in one and dedicating yourself to one. ISTR someone claimed his movies were the first time one encountered problems capturing a move on film, though I wouldn't know. Not entirely unlikely, though, as a full-speed punch would take slightly more than one frame at cinema frame rates.

quote:

Oh, and everything is thousands of years old to boot

Nah. Millions. For sure. Taught by aliens to a special clan of monkeys on the island of Atlantis.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/7/2007 8:21:40 PM

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Aswad, that last comment about monkeys is classic.. Classic I tell ya! lol

Alumbrado, Archer,

Thanks for those very good articles. I just learned more I think in the last five minutes about the Phillipines and their respective arts than I fully understood over the last 20 years... It's much appreciated.

Peace.

_____________________________

Consistent Discipline Renders Punishment Unnecessary

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/7/2007 9:31:13 PM

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Thinking on some of the last replys, I would think if you were playing a scene such as rape or kidnapping from the start that a sub or slave would be required to hit her Dom/Master. That punching in that case would naturally arise on both parts.

Or am I being Naive now?

(in reply to TigerNINTails)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/7/2007 9:52:59 PM

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The main problem with punching anything has to do with the small size of the bones in a person's hand.

Most people lack the ability to put the power of their hips and the weight of their body into a punch, so it is generally safe for the person punching.

If I, having studied this stuff for 20+ years, were to actually punch the solid bones in a person's skull, I would probably go home with compound fractures of my hand bones.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/7/2007 10:49:12 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddyBEAST

Hitting somebody hard enough in the solar plexus, area above the belly, can cause a heart to burst from the force pressure.

I haven't bothered to do the math, so I couldn't comment on the physics of that.

But a gun will do much the same with a lot less effort. Seriously, even Sir Faramir, Grand Slayer of Keyboards, He With the Bulging Biceps, could hold back enough not to cause that kind of trauma, unless it was premeditated. Are we talking play here, like the OP asked about, or something else entirely?

I did not get the impression that anyone here was advocating that kind of punching on an untrained sub.

If it was just a hypothetical "but what if someone with awesome skill were to apply all of it in a lethal blow to a poor, untrained and unsuspecting sub who doesn't know the first thing about receiving a punch?" kind of question, you might as well argue that people shouldn't use canes because they could technically jab it down behind the left clavicle and pierce the heart. Not many do that, to the best of my knowledge.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to DaddyBEAST)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/7/2007 10:52:45 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If there are two people engaged in a punching, kicking scene....why is only the Dominant responsible for the control and force?

Depends on whether you're talking about the Dom punching or kicking the sub, or both of them punching and kicking each other. In the former case, the Dom is the one who is in control of, or should be in control of, the activity. In the latter case, both should be.

quote:

Do people presume that women can not inflict substantial injury if they are not in control?

Do you automatically assume the Dom is a man and the sub a woman?

Just asking.....

Either gender can inflict great injury, whether with a "toy" or without. That's why control is always imperative.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/7/2007 10:55:01 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TigerNINTails

Aswad, that last comment about monkeys is classic.. Classic I tell ya! lol

It better be. Monkeys have been around far too long not to qualify as classic...

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to TigerNINTails)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/7/2007 10:59:59 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

The main problem with punching anything has to do with the small size of the bones in a person's hand.

Depends on what you are hitting. The kidneys, clavicles, and so forth, are more at risk than the hand.

quote:

Most people lack the ability to put the power of their hips and the weight of their body into a punch, so it is generally safe for the person punching.

An untrained punch with full force is capable of breaking those bones if the angle is off.
Also, I'd worry more about skeletal alignment if you're looking for injuries.
Without that, you get more of a karate style punch.

quote:

If I, having studied this stuff for 20+ years, were to actually punch the solid bones in a person's skull, I would probably go home with compound fractures of my hand bones.

Not unlikely, if punching with full force and no gloves.
But why would anyone want to punch there?
That's what the base of the palm is for.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 6:25:37 AM

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My Sir is a Marine, has been for 24 years....if he punched me, I mean "really" punched me...I doubt Id be up walking anytime soon. I, on the other hand, have tried punching him before and he just looks at me like Im silly. We used to do the whole sholder punch game thing....I never thought it was very fair though...

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 8:17:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
What did everyone think those types of play entailed?

Pillow Fights?

hey! sometimes those pillows really hurt...

and crap, its past time for me to go...damn you punching thread with two new pages since i last read it...
chelle
who is really now going to church to sing in the choir...maybe i should change out of my slut-wear....nah...they don't mind...in fact...this one creepy old guy....hmmm change...quits rambling

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 8:56:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
i would be interested to know, from those who posted that they like and engage in this kind of impact play, if they had any similar experiences as children (being beaten up with fists and kicks) or were they never abused physically as children.

I was never even spanked as a child, neither of my parents ever raised a hand to me, My Mother came up with far more torturous punishments like having to pick white lint off a black sweater. I was witness to violence ( my parents owned a rowdy country bar) but was never part of it as a child.

When I was 17 I was a victim of a hate crime. I was jumped by three skin heads while waiting for the LRT (bus) with my bestfriend. I don't think they actually had a clue that we were a couple we were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. My partner ran for help, which saved her life and mine.. In the meanwhile I was kicked, punched and stabbed.
The kicking/punching play I do with Knight is no comparison to that event, I actually find it empowering and intimate.I don't play that way to try and 'relive' the event I play that way because my Top enjoys it as do I. It's a very primal place and concidering all the contact sports like boxing,martial arts etc I'm actually a bit suprised at so much contraversy over this.

denika

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 11:46:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If there are two people engaged in a punching, kicking scene....why is only the Dominant responsible for the control and force?

Depends on whether you're talking about the Dom punching or kicking the sub, or both of them punching and kicking each other. In the former case, the Dom is the one who is in control of, or should be in control of, the activity. In the latter case, both should be.

I guess I thought I was being pretty clear that I was discussing the latter...sorry if it wasn't.

quote:

quote:

Do people presume that women can not inflict substantial injury if they are not in control?

Do you automatically assume the Dom is a man and the sub a woman?

Just asking.....

Either gender can inflict great injury, whether with a "toy" or without. That's why control is always imperative.

No, but I was discussing THIS thread and by far it has been leaning toward the male dom/fem sub dynamic.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 12:04:34 PM

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Very interesting topic, Domspaintoy.
My Master and I would never participate in this type of play,
but I do admire those that seem to love it.

(in reply to Domspaintoy)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 12:23:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: denika

I was never even spanked as a child, neither of my parents ever raised a hand to me, My Mother came up with far more torturous punishments like having to pick white lint off a black sweater. I was witness to violence ( my parents owned a rowdy country bar) but was never part of it as a child.

When I was 17 I was a victim of a hate crime. I was jumped by three skin heads while waiting for the LRT (bus) with my bestfriend. I don't think they actually had a clue that we were a couple we were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. My partner ran for help, which saved her life and mine.. In the meanwhile I was kicked, punched and stabbed.
The kicking/punching play I do with Knight is no comparison to that event, I actually find it empowering and intimate.I don't play that way to try and 'relive' the event I play that way because my Top enjoys it as do I. It's a very primal place and concidering all the contact sports like boxing,martial arts etc I'm actually a bit suprised at so much contraversy over this.

denika

What an horrible experience to have gone through. i am sorry you had to experience their hate in such a personlly invasive abusive way.

My inquery was more out of curiosity that if someone grew up on a steady diet of punches and kicks if that might somehow play into their not being able to shift their perspective on it - even when they knew it was engaged in by 2 consenting adults.

i can accept it's not abuse, i just can't understand or relate to enjoying it. i have a hard time seperating it in my mind from abuse. i don't begrudge anyone their kink, but i would have no desire to be a witness to it either.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to denika)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 5:55:11 PM

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It's a skillset, just like flogging or bondage. For some people it's a really comfortable and familiar one (they're martial artists, they fought a lot on playgrounds) and for some other people it's really alien. I would be one of those "other people"

and then, by good luck, I caught a Felice Shays workshop on this subject. It's become a way of playing I really enjoy. I dip lightly into this pool, stick to what I know I can do without harming anyone, but honestly the only difference between delivering a good kick to the 'nads safely and putting rope on them is the degree of *context* put onto that - the former pushes our "danger" buttons while the latter pushes our "weirdness" ones. Both require attention, knowledge, control, and skills.

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 6:08:41 PM

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With past pets I have engaged in punching play. I am a very well trained martial artist, and I learned a lot of control. I used pulled punches, they are far from full strength but they still hurt.
I also know where on the body I can safely punch without hitting bone or pressure points. I can leave nasty bruises, but not do any major damage.
It was quite good with my boy Cowboy, since he was a very muscular macho type, and the kink for him was being beat up by a girl like in a bar room brawl.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Grlwithboy)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 6:31:57 PM

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It is never up to another Dom to tell someone elses slave what is going on in the mind of their Master. Your friend should simply ask her Master.

There has always been a debate over domestic violence vs. consensually unconsentual. Personal preferance always applies as well.

If I were going to beat my slave I can think of far more appealing ways to do it than punching them in the stomache. But some people just aren't that creative.

(in reply to Domspaintoy)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 6:34:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHolly
But some people just aren't that creative.

Well, that was rather offensive.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LadyHolly)

RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/8/2007 6:35:10 PM

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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

With past pets I have engaged in punching play. I am a very well trained martial artist, and I learned a lot of control. I used pulled punches, they are far from full strength but they still hurt.
I also know where on the body I can safely punch without hitting bone or pressure points. I can leave nasty bruises, but not do any major damage.
It was quite good with my boy Cowboy, since he was a very muscular macho type, and the kink for him was being beat up by a girl like in a bar room brawl.

DV

To add to my earlier post . . . if I were a martial artist, certainly some form of technique would be implemented into my domination - no doubt!

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

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