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RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 5:19:37 AM

RCdc

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Petronius you wrote -

quote:

But it isn't my job; it is D's. I was very exact in what I wrote: that I had not heard of any report of a hack that let a messenger service "get into your computer" in the form written of

I was not in any way suggesting you go check or that it is your 'job' - but you stated you had no written information and I gave it to you. So - it is there. Look at it or don't - no skin off my nose - however you now have a way of accessing written form information on messanger holes.

The OP is simply a warning of not placing too much faith in the net and that these things do have holes in and there are risks. People have responded with recommendation of software, hardware cleaning and advice. Why destroy a perfectly good thread that could be served as a positive reference point for people and degenerate it into a 'who is the most mentally unstable and who is the most qualified to answer' thread? Making a general comment about 'HNGs' is different to a personal and unfounded suggestion on someones personal state of mind. Personally, I wouldn't do either, but at least I can see the difference.

Why is it more important to you (seemingly) to tar the reputation of an individual poster by making unfounded assessments on their mental state, than to add helpful and positive information that other people do read as well? Why not, instead of belittiling a person and making accusations of their mental state, add something productive to a thread, which essentially is about the dangers of hacking, virus problems and giving too much info on the net and leaving vital information on a computer.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Petronius)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 5:25:25 AM

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I am not commenting on the correctness of Petronius arguments, I have far too little knowledge of the workings of computer systems to do so. There have been other naysayers on this thread also. Do I know if the story presented here is accurate? Absolutely not. I will say that there are a few aspects here that I don't understand because they don't seem to follow what I would consider to be the usual course, but that in itself is not an indicator of the "trueness" or "falseness" of the claims made. Victims sometimes act in ways that seem irrational to people who are not in their shoes.

What I would like to say is to Lockit. I am not basing this comment on what has been presented here in this thread alone, but in the cumulation of many posts that you have written. I am also not trying to embarass or imply that there has been anything less than truth. There seems to be an incredible pattern of repeating victimization and tragedy over the course of your life as you have expressed it. As a professional who has worked with many, many victims over the years I have found that when those types of patterns are presented it generally warrants a closer look. Anyone can be a victim, sometimes even more than once...but when the pattern becomes chronic, it is not something that is in the best interest of those involved to simply ignore it. For your own benefit Lockit, and not to "prove" anything to anyone here, I would suggest that you take some time and really take a good hard look at that aspect. It may indicate that you are unwittingly projecting an image of "easy victim" to those who are seeking exactly that. If that is the case, it is possible to turn that around. In doing so the road ahead could become a far more peaceful journey than where you have been.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 6:40:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I am not commenting on the correctness of Petronius arguments, I have far too little knowledge of the workings of computer systems to do so. There have been other naysayers on this thread also. Do I know if the story presented here is accurate? Absolutely not. I will say that there are a few aspects here that I don't understand because they don't seem to follow what I would consider to be the usual course, but that in itself is not an indicator of the "trueness" or "falseness" of the claims made. Victims sometimes act in ways that seem irrational to people who are not in their shoes.

What I would like to say is to Lockit. I am not basing this comment on what has been presented here in this thread alone, but in the cumulation of many posts that you have written. I am also not trying to embarass or imply that there has been anything less than truth. There seems to be an incredible pattern of repeating victimization and tragedy over the course of your life as you have expressed it. As a professional who has worked with many, many victims over the years I have found that when those types of patterns are presented it generally warrants a closer look. Anyone can be a victim, sometimes even more than once...but when the pattern becomes chronic, it is not something that is in the best interest of those involved to simply ignore it. For your own benefit Lockit, and not to "prove" anything to anyone here, I would suggest that you take some time and really take a good hard look at that aspect. It may indicate that you are unwittingly projecting an image of "easy victim" to those who are seeking exactly that. If that is the case, it is possible to turn that around. In doing so the road ahead could become a far more peaceful journey than where you have been.

I agree with this post and a few others.
I just reviewed prior posts written by Lockit.
In about 7 out of every 10 posts, Lockit continues to talk about victimization.
"If " Lockit is a real person, than she really needs to get professional help.
Lockit is screaming for help and all anyone needs to do is read her prior posts.
Seriously Lockit, get medical treatment, and I hope you can resolve your issues
and have a great life.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 7:05:05 AM

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Thank you. I have hesitated a few days to post that. I do not wish it to be seen as an attempt at embarassing, belittling or victim blaming. That was not my intent, nor was it to call her out. I do hope that Lockit reads it in the spirit it was intended.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to VeryMercurial)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 8:11:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40
<snip>

You took the words out of my mouth. Very accurate post.

lockit, good luck

(in reply to stella40)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 10:42:00 AM

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I was rather bemused by Lothlauren's speculations in the current discussion.

quote:

Well looking at the overall situation there is one of several possibilities going on here.

There are an enormous number of possibilities, far more than Lothlauren lists below. Paranoid fantasies (in general) often generate enormous numbers of "possibilities" all the more to dismiss likelihoods.

quote:

1.) she is doing exactly what you say she is doing.... well thats really unfortunate but that situation does come up from time to time. the advice I gave is good for anyone to check and ensure that they have made secure anything they can. With the number of people out there that like to perform random assaults of a malicious nature its just good practice.

I submit that, given Ocam's Razor, it is impossible for her to be doing what she says she's doing in the world she says she's doing it in. Rational adults should pick this up immediately. In short, what's more likely: that the major software companies rather accurately describe their security concerns or that Lockit does? That the FBI which claims to run a pretty tight ship around security is telling the truth or that they are unconcerned, as Lockit claims. That the computer experts around security particularly concerning public key cryptography and the chain of anonymous remailers are accurate or that Lockit's claims that anything can be traced is?

Moreover, the situation described by Lockit, as far as I can tell, never comes up.

And the situations that do come up, with real stalkers and real victims, aren't the situation Lockit described.

quote:

2.) You as a person can not believe that a situation can exist like this. Somehow I dont think that you are this closeminded.

I don't believe the situation exists. I've said that in effect many times. Why speculate?

On the other hand, it isn't closemindedness; it's science and a knowledge of the world.

Moreover, the charge of being "closeminded" is often thrown about when fantasy surface. And often the problem resides with the side that made the charge.

If closemindedness is present I'd rather not be closeminded about the FBI's statements or the security forces for major software companies.

I don't want to close my mind to those statements in order to join Lockit's fantasies.

quote:

3.) You are the person harrassing / stalking her, again this seems far fetched but in this age of information, many people can develop the skills necessary to do this kind of thing.

Paranoid people often respond to those who challenge them by producing more fantasy or speculation that their critic is part of the conspiracy.

Thus far in my life paranoid people have accused me of being a "CIA agent" when I challenged their conspiracy theories around Kennedy's death. They've accused me of being a "Satanist" when I challenged their fantasy of "ritual abuse." They accuse me of being linked to the ultraright when I challenge their notions that 9/11 was an inside job by the U.S. government.

It is hardly shocking that somebody speculates that I'm some secret stalker for challenging a fantasy around that as well.

quote:

4.) The situation she states is happening, and you as a very suspicious minded individual want to see some concrete proof of his (The Stalker) activity.

I don't think it a good idea for somebody who speculates, sans evidence, that I'm some criminal stalker to use a phrase like "suspicious minded individual." But Lothlauren did and who am I to nay say?

It is, however, not suspiciousness on my part.

The doctrine "he (or she) who asserts must prove" is a standard part of science.

It isn't up to me to provide proof that something doesn't exist; proving negatives are generally impossible. It is up to the person who made the claim to provide the proof. Lockit made a variety of claims. Nobody forced her to. It is then up to her to provide the evidence. It is a shame that Lothlauren seems to take a standard norm of science as "suspicious minded[ness.]"

Nor is it "suspicious" to want to believe major corporations instead of a set of posts on c.m. from somebody who may not exist; nor is it "suspicious" to want to believe that corporate security is serious about security; nor .... etc.

Lothlauren went on to write "The only thing that can be done here in all honesty when the pros and cons are weighed are to give her the best advice for her situation and let the chips fall where they may."

There are no "pros" as far as I can see in Lockit's assertions and a goodly number of "cons" that I and others have listed.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 11:49:42 AM

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Darcyandthedark responded to my statement where I wrote "I had not heard of any report of a hack that let a messenger service "get into your computer" in the form written of [by Lockit]."

Specifically D. responded "you stated you had no written information and I gave it to you. So - it is there. Look at it or don't - no skin off my nose - however you now have a way of accessing written form information on w holes. "

I am unaware of any such gift by D. I certainly did not get it given to me via email here. On the other hand, general posts in a discussion can sometimes cause information to get lost in the shuffle, so to speak.

Perhaps D. referred to the statement "You simply have to go to Microsoft Security Bulletin to find windows media and MSN vulnerability reports."

This isn't a report; it isn't a URL to a report; it isn't a pointer to a report.

It is the equivalent of somebody waving their arms when asked for evidence and proclaiming "the public library."

Sadly in today's world there are pig-ignorant people who literally don't know what evidence is. They really believe that a finger pointing to the library constitutes proof and are amazed that other adults are too pig-stupid to use a public library. They same can occur when people, asked for a concrete report of a concrete problem, write of the Microsoft web site, content in the belief that they've provided the information.

D. went on to claim that "The OP is simply a warning of not placing too much faith in the net and that these things do have holes in and there are risks. "

No, it isn't. It was about a series of specific claims made by one specific person, Lockit, involving holes in messenger software, other specific computer problems, and a wide variety of what she claimed were her experiences as a stalking victim based on those things.

It was not at all about simple "faith" around computers.

People often lose sight of the core of some dispute that has a paranoid tinge to it.

A few years ago people were claiming Satanic conspiracies, involving kidnapping and Jack-the-Ripper-style murders, that were covered up by police departments.

Those discussions were not about simple street smarts. It was grossly inaccurate for some to later claim they were.

Moreover, they were not about conspiracies but a particular type of conspiracy. Some people later tried to prove how stupid the critics were claiming the critics did not know that conspiracies existed.

Equally here people forget that Lockit made a series of specific charges. Her supporters seem to have forgotten these and try to show that Lockit's critics don't know what they're talking about because there are bugs in software. Indeed there are but that isn't evidence for any one of Lockit's tales.

Nor in the past did proof that people were kidnapped serve as evidence for Satanic kidnapping. And knowledge that people are stalked somewhere in the world is not proof that a particular person was stalked in a particular way.

Nor did incredulity by claiming critics believe "police never lie" serve as evidence that this particular police department lied at this particular time about these particular Satanic actions. Evidence that there are bugs in software is not evidence that any particular type of bug exists in particular software that can be used for a particular purpose.

Similarly, no number of posts about generic computer security provide evidence of Lockit's rather colorful tale of stalking.

(in reply to Petronius)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 12:52:34 PM

RCdc

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If you do not know how to access something as simple as reports from microsoft security bulletins and need to be assisted in searching for their updates and hole patches, then how on earth can you expect people to believe any of the knowledge you have tried to 'bestow' on the forum, about there being no way for a virus to infect via a messenger service? It's really quite simple - you go to microsoft and search. If you don't wish to, then do not - but other people aren't about to do all the work for you - just as it isn't 'your job' - it isn't mine to do it all for you either. You asked where you can get the info - I offered you a map. Whether you take that map or not is your choice. I give people credit for having enough brain to be able to complete work themselves not need a hand holding.

You have a 'thing' against one particular poster. With all due respect to Lockit, my posts were directed to the technical side, not her personal and your poor attempt to again hijack a thread and make it personal to her is up to you. I mentioned that your condecending attitude to one poster isn't helpful to others who might be gaining some knowledge from those who are pointing out advice of good spyware, general safety precautions and suggestions.

So I refere back to the OP. Virus and hacking can occur via messenger services. Microsoft updates do patch these holes and report it in their logs and site which is why it is important not to ignore update notices when they occur. Even then, yahoo is still an easy target and as reported, others have been 'attacked' via their messengers. Whether that is via hacking, virus acceptance on a file or mail or keylogger - it happens. That isn't meant to frighten people... it's a simple warning and if you do not protect your hardware you do suffer the consequences.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Petronius)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 1:17:21 PM

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Petronius

What exactly is the issue here? I mean your issue... not Lockit's... but your issue?

What do you really want to happen as a result of your postings?

Just why....after people have come back and added their opinions... and (along with myself) refuted the arguments from the Petronius Guide To Information Technology (and no I didn't receive any message relating to my offer of supplying a program which can crack an instant messenger) ..just why is it so important that you win your argument and belittle and attack Lockit through doing so?

What are you trying to prove?

Let's put aside for one moment what Lockit has posted previously in this thread, and whether it is fact or fantasy, and her emotional and mental state. Let us not take into account the postings of others (including myself) who took Lockit at her word and gave her the benefit of the doubt, and posted such good advice.

But what is in this for you?

I do not know Lockit, just as I do not know you, you are, along with the majority of those who visit this site and come onto these boards just a screenname, a person sat behind a computer, with the right - as everyone else - to read, make postings, start threads, ask questions and express your opinions, feelings, and share your experiences. I make no distinction or judgement as to someone's emotional or mental state - you can be emotionally disturbed, you can be severely depressed, you can even be paranoid schizophrenic and hearing voices from God - but this does not discount the right of any or every consenting adult to contribute to these boards. I take each thread and each posting at face value. I have my own take, my own impression, and my own opinions.

But why is this starting to appear like a 'win at all costs argument' between you and Lockit? Do you really have a personal interest vested in Lockit's circumstances? What is it?

I live in the real world... among real people... and I can tell you from working with disadvantaged people such as the homeless that there really is good and evil in this world. And this is a world where people are killed, murdered, they commit suicide. It is a world in which children are abused, they are beaten, maimed, injured, starved, neglected, they have boiling hot water poured over them, they are locked in their rooms. This is a world in which rape and domestic violence really exists, where women (and men) are stalked, women live in fear, they are beaten, and kicked, and punched, and battered, they are forced to have sex., they are forced to go through many acts which the majority in society find sickening, degrading, humiliating, and downright depraved.

And the truth is we only get to hear about so much of it, because so little of it gets reported, so little of it comes out. The victims are afraid, they are afraid of the consequences of facing up to their abuser or attacker, they are afraid of not being believed, of being challenged, of not being strong enough to handle the stress and emotional turmoil of trying to change their situation. And yes, not everybody can be strong, not everyone can be capable, this is why some of them 'drop out', why so many turn to drink, they turn to drugs, because they need that crutch to get through the day, to escape from their situation. And yes, I'm sure many of them lock themselves away and create a fantasy world for themselves on the Internet, and they live a virtual lifestyle protected by the computer screen.

And a lot of this happens because people are sceptical - family members, friends, neighbours, employers, even doctors, law enforcement agencies, and even the victims themselves... they see it as their fault, as something they deserve, and they do not speak out. Too many times it comes out only when the person is dead and even then it isn't guaranteed to come out.

It is something that we, which means 'we' in this very diverse 'community' of people united by a common interest in BDSM and D/s, are very aware of, and which is why many of the people here seek to keep their BDSM and D/s interests secret and unknown to others, for fear of being misjudged or misunderstood.

We are also very conscious of it because abuse and more serious crimes do happen within this community. Why only a few years ago a woman in Szczecin, Poland was making postings and placing advertisements on the bdsm.pl website about her estranged husband who was a sadist into domination and it took the deaths of five female submissives before the authorities got involved. Another woman saw her daughter get battered by a man after meeting him via an Internet chatroom. Meeting people through the Internet can be dangerous and I for one wouldn't want to dismiss Lockit's claims lightly.

It is maybe because we live in a world with this information technology which gives us so much information - not all of it reliable - and the fact that we live busier lifestyles that at times we sometimes jump to conclusions, assume and make hasty judgements rather than ask questions, get to know all the facts and form more reliable opinions.

Unlike you, I don't see how information coming from a large corporation, or even a government for that matter is any more reliable than information coming from someone who writes postings here.

I posted earlier in this thread taking Lockit's situation at face value (which I still do) and expressed sympathy, support and offered practical help, as did a lot of other people. And if she makes another posting I will do exactly the same as I did then.

I am not a professional, I work with the homeless in a volunteer capacity (for which I receive training) but I know others, a close friend is a policewoman who's a former social worker, I know substance misuse counsellors, psychotherapists and psychoanalysts, and therefore I know that even if Lockit is making all this up my previous response is doing her no harm.

But Petronius, can you say the same about your responses? Let us not forget that Lockit, whoever she is, and whatever her emotional or mental state is, she's still a person, she thinks, she feels, and who's to say what information she takes to heart and what responses hurt her?

So why is it you are so anxious to convince all of us you are right and that's she's wrong, that she's a nutcase and she's a liar? What are you getting from this? Are you jealous of all the attention she's receiving? Is it because you also have issues and nobody is paying you any attention? What is it?

What is it that you have to say and we're not hearing?

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

(in reply to Petronius)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 1:25:45 PM

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I would like to address the things that have been said about my victimizations. I am 49 years old. My victimizations were many, many years ago and I have lived a lot of years between them and this current situation. I did get professional assistance and do not live my life as a victim. I wrote a piece called… Victimized, but not a Victim, to address this topic, that I shared with many people who were victimized and held on to the victimization and therefore victimized themselves in the long run. I have born children, raised them, built a career and did well until I became ill.

In working with and in domestic abuse, shelters, hotlines and the ill, I have found that speaking openly about such things helps those who are going through them to open up. I realize that I leave myself open for a lot of judgment or opinions based on my speaking about my experiences, but I am willing to take that chance. If speaking about what happened to me long ago helps someone open up and know that life does go on and one can overcome… then I will continue to speak about it all no matter what people might think of me. I know it has helped a lot of people and that is all I am after.

There is life after victimization and it can be a good life.

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 1:51:48 PM

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Darceyinthedark still has problems with elementary concepts in science ... and of laziness.

D. writes:

quote:

If you do not know how to access something as simple as reports from microsoft security bulletins and need to be assisted in searching for their updates and hole patches, then how on earth can you expect people to believe any of the knowledge you have tried to 'bestow' on the forum, about there being no way for a virus to infect via a messenger service? It's really quite simple - you go to microsoft and search. If you don't wish to, then do not - but other people aren't about to do all the work for you - just as it isn't 'your job' - it isn't mine to do it all for you either.

As a friend responds to similar things, "I'm not your Mommy; I'm not your Daddy; I'm not your therapist; I'm not your sponsor in a 12-step program; and I'm not your fucking unpaid research assistant."

D. appears to have a real problem understanding this, particularly that other people won't do free research for D. on topics D. wishes to discover proof that D. asserts exists.

Try living in the real world.

But to present it scientifically, only one person in the world can present D's claimed documentation and that's D. I or anybody else in the world could search some generic location forever, never discover the claimed material, and the person could simply assert that we were too stupid to discover it.

Similarly, D. seems unable to imagine that the absence of free research for D personally could be due to anything other than the person "not knowing" how to do it.

Again, try living in the real world.

Thus far D's made a series of claims but hasn't been able to back any of them up.

If there is at Microsoft evidence supporting the particular type of security problem Lockit asserted at the present time as D in essence claims it is up to D. to present it.

Denouncing others because they won't do D's research doesn't do the trick.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 2:02:22 PM

RCdc

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As I said - you have the map. Take the journey at your own choice.
You have been offered to explore and gain the tools and programs from others as well as the place to gather your information from 'D' you centre on us - at least your not singling out Lockit anymore.
Those little green men of yours are circling...

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Petronius)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 2:04:23 PM

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Dark and Stella and whoever is still following this mess,

I do think it is important all that you have said, but I think you are beating a dead horse. You can't change his mind. Whatever it is he has against me and whatever he is saying doesn't bother me. I won't allow it to. I got upset with him at first, but I dealt with it. lol This man has projected and assumed many things… the millionaire… the aliens… and continuously has proven he has issue with me and keeping what is stated, to what is stated.

However, according to my search yesterday, I found that the magazine he mentioned has some serious issues that anyone can find in search. I am not sure I would make them my end all of end alls. There is proof that messenger services can be hacked into from what I saw and it confirms my belief that a hacker can get into your computer through these services. One of many ways it seems.

It seems that my story is not credible because some have worked for these agencies etc. and know better. I cannot defend myself on this accusation because I cannot prove what I did and what was told to me. I had someone here when the police came here and I followed that visit where he did tell me to go to circuit city as insane as it is, with a call to the FBI in Fort Collins, Colorado. I almost wish I could get records from my phone company to prove I made that call.

Believe me, if I was just trying to get attention, I could come up with a better story than this and I sure as hell wouldn’t have said the police told me to go to circuit city! God, that is insane… but it is the truth! You tell the people who have been in messenger with me and close to me, why my so called fantasy killed or seriously maimed their computers and why they can no longer have online communications with me! They as I do, know my story is truth and in the end, I guess that is all that matters.

I have a high regard for my word, honor and ethics and although I can understand how others are thinking some of what they are, I would like to clear my name. I don’t believe that will happen and I won’t lose a lot of sleep over it, but I would at least like to try because I respect many people here.

Many of my postings have been read and mentioned here. In these postings… besides one thread where I was wrong about someone on a couple of facts, by mixing him up with another person… have I said anything that would indicate that I am not balanced? Was anything I said off balance other than the fact that I had multiple events where I was victimized? Was my advice faulty? Was my intent faulty? Was I making comment on whatever was going on in the thread in an appropriate manner? Did I say anything of benefit to anyone else?

Let’s look at the big picture before we slander or point out the emotional needs of one we do not know. If I can be found unstable in how I now live my life or how I think and speak… then that will speak for itself. Until then… I would appreciate some considerations that I have mentioned here. If someone who is bashing me can state how I might prove myself… then lets go there and end this bull shit.

And let’s do it fast, this computer is dying because of my fantasy!

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 2:05:53 PM

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I think some of the links I provided yesterday will prove there is an issue with messenger... you are one stubborn man...

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 2:32:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Petronius (in post #147)

Indeed there are but that isn't evidence for any one of Lockit's tales.

Nor in the past did proof that people were kidnapped serve as evidence for Satanic kidnapping. And knowledge that people are stalked somewhere in the world is not proof that a particular person was stalked in a particular way.

If I may respond to these extracted quotes...

A) As Lockit has mentioned that she had gone to her local law enforcement for assistance, and that they may be in the middle of some form of investigation, whether known to Lockit or not, I believe it is not prudent for Lockit to disclose the specific details of her case on a public forum. Especially when this forum may be searchable by the global search engines for everyone in the world to read. In fact, whether she has expressly stated so or not, I'd venture a guess that she may have been asked by her local law enforcement not to divulge details. Finally, I, as a reader and occasional poster here, don't need to know the specific details to understand that her warning has merit and should be received for what it is: a warning that it is possible for exploits, both none and unkown, to be used against one's own computer.

B) I'm not sure how Satanic kidnappings entered into the discussion on the merit's of Lockit's original post, but I'm sure it has to do with some unique synaptic relationship within Petronius's mind. Nevertheless, each and every stalker goes about his/her sick craft in their own unique way. There is no universal stalker handbook with step-by-step instructions on carrying out a successful stalking. To say that Lockit's case is not realistic is unfair to those who've been victimized by stalkers. I hope and pray that those who've never had the displeasure of being a victim remain that blessed. I sincerely hope it's something they never have to endure. It is a terrible, horrifying experience that can shake even the strongest personality down to the core. I have been a stalker's victim, and 12 years after the last event, I still have moments where I break out into a cold sweat. And yes, I have had counseling and continue to be involved in victims' advocacy groups however I can.

While I can let slide the discussion on whether Lockit's claims of system usurpation are doable or not, I cannot idly site by and let blatant closedmindedness on Lockit being stalked go by without coming to her defense. There are too many things about her situation that ring uncomfortably true and similar to my experiences of 12 years ago to ignore. As such, I have exchanged a few private messages with Lockit and offered assistance in any way I can.

If that makes me paranoid in the eyes of one or two people here, then so be it. Being a victim of a stalking has a nasty way of doing that.

Oh, by the way, I've been involved in what's now loosely called IT since being a student in 1975, using punch-card based mainframes. In my experiences, not only is what Lockit suggested in her original post possible, it's certainly probable in her situation.

I wish a good day to all. Thank you.

(in reply to Petronius)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 2:59:06 PM

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Lockit asserts she wrote a paper called "Victimized, but not a Victim" that she has shared with numbers of people.

Do publish it then!

If cm is not the place there are lots of free web sites on the net that would permit it.

At last we have some concrete thing that Lockit has claimed that she can, if she wishes, so demonstrate.

I predict we won't see it.

(in reply to Petronius)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 3:00:32 PM

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I'm not trying to prove anything; as I've mentioned before the burden of proof is on people like Lockit who assert various things.

I'm sorry that stella40 still seems unable to comprehend this simple principle of science.

She presents several paragraphs of information -- quite accurate as far as I can tell -- about the plight of victims. But while true it is irrelevant in this discussion just as "2+2=4" is true but irrelevant to Lockit's claims.

Yes, there are victims that decide not to speak out because they aren't believed ... but Lockit certainly ain't one of them.

The issue here is over evidence, not over speaking out.

Some people for their own psychological reasons refuse to believe a victim despite the available evidence; others for their own psychological reasons refuse to disbelieve assertions despite the absence of evidence.

I think the best way to help victims is with hard reality, not fantasy. I think the best way to help victims is with evidence, not dismissing evidence they present and not inventing evidence some ostensible victim does not present.

To point out again (and yet again): the fact that victims exist is no evidence let alone proof that a given person is a victim. Rape exists; not every person who cries rape was so victimized. Men get taken in divorce settlements; not every man claiming it is accurate and not every woman denounced by the man is guilty of what he claims. Terrorists exist; not every person accused is guilty, etc.

The person who says "I won't believe the victim despite the evidence" is not the opposite of the person who says "I'll invent evidence to believe some claimed victim." They are simply too sides of the same emotionally narcissistic coin, people who both believe that their personal choices about reality, and not objective evidence, are most important.

Later stella40 asks me about my motivation. That's not a question that can easily be answered about this thread in a finite amount of time.

However, writing in a more generic form:

I don't like people bullshitting about technology, particularly when it plays into the technophobic computers-are-out-to-get-you hysteria.

I don't like people hurting real victims by inventing tales of victimhood that make them so much more victimized than the real victims.

I don't like to see paranoia of any sort injected into political arguments.

I don't like any public manifestation of hysteria that plays into the various waves of anti-sex propaganda particularly in the English-speaking world.

I don't like to see people deforming fundamental principles of science in their own emotional interests.

Finally sella40 writes "[she doesn't] see how information coming from a large corporation, or even a government for that matter is any more reliable than information coming from someone who writes postings here. I posted earlier in this thread taking Lockit's situation at face value..."

In essence not only do stella40 and I not share a sense of the same reality in this thread, we don't share the same sense of reality, period.

I think that the Colorado justice system is more likely to be accurate in their statements about themselves than Lockit; stella40 does not.

I think that the FBI is more likely to be accurate in their statements about themselves than Lockit; stella40 does not.

I think that the security people at major corporations are more likely to be accurate in their statements about themselves than Lockit; stella40 does not.

stella40 can take Lockit's assertions at face value; I cannot especially when that means rejecting, at face value, the statements of an almost infinitely greater number of other people.

Again speaking generically instead of focusing on the current discussion, I don't like the Bible-thumpers with their endless invented reality to sucker people into supporting their hidden political agenda. These were the people who ranted "children don't lie" in order to mail the "secular humanists" who, if not actively organized by the Satanic conspiracy, brought it to power. These were the people who invented tales that masturbation would drive you insane. They're the people who invented stories about how the Internet was only the distribution mechanism for [TOS-statement-deleted] porn. They're the people who used to publish the invented "seduced and abandoned" stories and pushed the invented tale of pot "the weed from hell."

If people don't like sex they should have every right not to engage in it; instead they have a propensity to try to stop others from enjoying it.

If people don't like charges in society they don't have to go to the movies or eat the new food or read the new books or listen to the new music. Instead they invent tales of horrid things like "Satanists" who develop from social change.

Here in New York City we've seen people like Curtis Sliwa produce an utterly imaginary history of the Guardian Angels in support of his particular rightwing agenda. Later the related Cyber Angels did much the same thing for the Internet. Both were complete with horrid invented tales of victimization, invented victims tales of horrid criminals, and invented glorious tales of the heroic Angels.

Above all, I don't like the people who tear down science in support of their own emotional problems or political agendas.

(in reply to Petronius)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 3:02:34 PM

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lol Want a bet?

Give me a moment or two to find it in my disks... and it has been published on old web sites... Kiss me buddy

(in reply to Petronius)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 3:04:08 PM

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Are you my stalker?

That dude is paranoia

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Maybe leaving CM.. A warning - 7/14/2007 3:18:17 PM

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This was taken from a post on another web site and I don't have time to go through it and fix how it is all blended together.... This was created for certain sites and has things preceding it and following it...

Everyone in life is victimized by someone or a situation at some point in life and it is how we deal with it that determines how we go on afterwards. Someone tells you that they love you when in the end, you find out that they don't. You have given them and the relationship your all and are left holding nothing but memories and pain without the love you thought you had. Someone comes into your home and invades your privacy and steals your hard earned belongings or a natural storm comes along and destroys all you have. Life happens and whether it be natural disasters or human hate, life will suck and rob you of your joy. Life and people can victimize us, but we don't have to remain a victim.
When victimized, we must learn how to properly deal with the victimization and move on. If we dwell on the fact that life or someone victimized us, then as long as we dwell on the negative of what we have suffered, we are a victim. Once the initial victimization has taken place and you stay stuck in it... I have to ask, who is victimizing you? I strongly believe that we must get through whatever event has victimized us, make ourselves safe and then set out to undo the damage by considering all we need to consider and then taking action to deal with the pain. Once we deal with the pain, we should be able to move on without hindrances that would keep us stuck in the past and not able to deal with any new situation that might remind us of what happened. If you are stuck in the past; you have not made yourself safe or dealt with the pain and it is time to do so!
Self talk is very important. A lot of people are on a positive thinking and talking kick that has some truth to it all, but I feel it is often used wrongly. Some positive talk is completely unrealistic and some times I see realistic thinking as a positive thing, but others will say it is negative. I think it all boils down to how we view things, our attitudes and whether we want to live life realistically or with rose tinted glasses. For example... I can say that I have a cold. Some would say that it is negative to profess a negative statement as if my words have some magical power and I am going to continue to be sick with a cold if I tell someone I have a cold. Another example... I am in a bad situation in life and I am telling myself what I need to do to repair what is wrong. I tell someone of all the things that are wrong and could go wrong in the situation and they tell me I am being negative. Might I ask how it is wrong to evaluate a given situation and try to anticipate what could go wrong as a method of trying to avoid certain pitfalls and be prepared for what might happen, if I am not just worrying? I believe that careful planning is a positive.
I don't agree with using hope as a cure all and it is often used to evade the ugliness that just comes as a natural part of life at times. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't have hope. That doesn't mean that we can't hope for the miracle or a fantasy... it just means that we need to be realistic about our hope.
I can have hope and faith, but does that mean I lose brain cells? I could hope that I meet a millionaire man who looks like an Adonis, who will worship the ground I walk on and I can have faith that I will meet this man and he will make my life something one can see in Hollywood movies, but if I give up a blue collar worker who looks like a mutt and who would treat me very well... am I being realistic in my hope and faith? Am I compromising and not holding out for the best if I chose the wonderful poorer man who hopefully kisses better than a mutt? We need to be realistic in what we hope for and what we have faith in! We must have balance in all things!
Not only can life and humans victimize us... we can also victimize ourselves!
When something bad happens... make yourself safe. That means assure yourself that the situation is at an end and you are through that part of the event. Making yourself safe can include many things... personal safety, location, mental attitude, networking with agencies determined by the situation, gathering support and information and much more.
Next you must evaluate the situation and realistically look at the damage that has been done. What can you do to repair the damage, what do you need, how does whatever happened affect you or anyone touched by the situation... deal with the damages most important and move from one aspect of the damage to the next until you have dealt with it all. The damage can include physical aspects to the emotional or spiritual... don't ignore any aspect or it will come back to bite you on the tail end and unless you like being bitten hard, realistically and positively consider it all. (If you miss a step or can't cover it all... I might know some good treatments for tail end bites.)
Take action! Be an active participant in your own life whether you had any control over the situation that victimized you or not. There are a lot of jokes about bartenders and customers... how the customer sits and sobs in his/her beer and the bartender hears it all. While that could be considered an action, it isn't the most profitable action one could take! Yes, there are times when I think a good chat and a beer might be of some benefit, but considering what that could being on, it might not be the most suitable action to take! The thing is to find healthy answers or solutions to life events, although a good drunk might be a little fun, it can cause headaches, financial woes and legal actions. Just get active in making the bad turn out good.
Don't forget to deal with how all of this makes you feel! In the process of moving on, some of us who are toughies will often move on without dealing with the emotions of it all or there might not be time enough to deal with the emotions. Believe me, I know this well! Yet I have learned that if the emotions cannot be dealt with for whatever reasons, they will hit you square in the face at a later date. You might as well deal with them as soon as you can and allow a healing process to take place or the emotional garbage will continue to rot deep inside you like an emotional cancer and radiation treatments for emotional damage aren't as simple as going to the hospital for treatment. A few hours mourning can save many hours dealing with the lack of mourning later after more emotional build up that has rooted and been left to fester within us.
When victimized we often will take on the victimization and do things that can mean that we are victimizing ourselves. What I mean is that we can dwell on it and therefore victimize ourselves or we can deal with it in unhealthy ways that only compound the problems. Say I get raped and I become afraid to allow a man to get close to me and have a normal and healthy sex life... I have allowed myself to continue the victimization of the rapist and the effects he had upon my life. I used fear as a protective measure. I have taken my victimization upon myself and actually helped my rapist ruin my life rather than just a time period in my life. If I don't allow the evil thing he did to me to fester inside me and keep me from going on to have healthy relationships and a good sex life, I am no longer his victim! Looking at it this way can help in any situation of victimization.
Don't give the bad guys the power to keep you in a holding pattern and don't let life's hardships make you afraid to truly live your life! Take back your personal power and live free!

(in reply to Lockit)

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