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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 4:34:02 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I would make an innocent look, but:

a) nobody would believe it ...
b) I don't have one anyway ...

.....when you're right, you're right........

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 4:42:01 PM

domiguy

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When all is said and done, these types of threads are rather meaningless....Level has his opinion, as nicely stated as it was...Curios Lord his....Very wordy young man, and I mine....Who's getting laid out of this?....Isn't that what CM is all about?

Seriously what a thread like this does is allows you to reflect on other's views and do a little research and peruse a variety of topics relating to this subject.

One thing I was not aware of is that approximately 1.3 million abortions are performed annually and it was more a few years back.....God, that is a lot of dead kids.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 4:53:35 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

When all is said and done, these types of threads are rather meaningless....Level has his opinion, as nicely stated as it was...Curios Lord his....Very wordy young man, and I mine....Who's getting laid out of this?....Isn't that what CM is all about?

Seriously what a thread like this does is allows you to reflect on other's views and do a little research and peruse a variety of topics relating to this subject.

One thing I was not aware of is that approximately 1.3 million abortions are performed annually and it was more a few years back.....God, that is a lot of dead kids.

Yes, and only about 90,000 of those 1,300,000 were for incest, rape, or health reasons. I hate the whole mess, and I don't wish any of it on anyone, either side of the argument.

Man, that snapper is sounding better and better, less mental fatigue

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 5:14:50 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

When all is said and done, these types of threads are rather meaningless....Level has his opinion, as nicely stated as it was...Curios Lord his....Very wordy young man, and I mine....Who's getting laid out of this?....Isn't that what CM is all about?

Seriously what a thread like this does is allows you to reflect on other's views and do a little research and peruse a variety of topics relating to this subject.

One thing I was not aware of is that approximately 1.3 million abortions are performed annually and it was more a few years back.....God, that is a lot of dead kids.

Yes, and only about 90,000 of those 1,300,000 were for incest, rape, or health reasons. I hate the whole mess, and I don't wish any of it on anyone, either side of the argument.

Man, that snapper is sounding better and better, less mental fatigue

Exactly...If you are justifying your stance on abortion due to about 1% of the procedures than it might be time to rethink your position....

How ya been Lev?

Know of any good tunes that go well with abortions?....I will ponder this further.....The song I would think would have "baby" in the title.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 5:34:31 PM

Level

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"Baby Hold On" by Eddie Money........ "Dead On Arrival" by Billy Idol........ "No Tomorrow" by Willie Nelson........ maybe they could play these tunes at the Planned Parenthood offices around the country.....

Doing okay, DG, hope you are as well.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 5:43:56 PM

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Don't you want me, baby...Human league

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 5:52:11 PM

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Hmm.. What about if you're a 16 year old girl, who was always safe. Used protection and got tested regularly, and then one time the condom breaks. Then you get pregnant. 1) You KNOW your parents will never look at you the same way once they know what their baby girl has been doing. 2) You're just a baby yourself, if you have that kid your life is pretty much over. Then what? I know alot of you are like "oh well that girl should have thought of it" but when you're a teenager caught up in whatever, you're not thinking about the after. And those situations aren't just the 1% . That happens every single day, to about half the girls in just about every single public high school. ... and besides, this world is over-populated as it is. The last thing we need are more people breeding and having kids they can't support.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 5:52:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Curios Lord his....Very wordy young man,

Hey, lets not be too hard on Curious Lord. Yes, he's a little wordy. OK, he's to wordy, what Starbucks is to coffee ... but, he did call me mean, and you can't buy compliments like that at any price!!

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 5:56:17 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrymsonSins

Hmm.. What about if you're a 16 year old girl, who was always safe. Used protection and got tested regularly, and then one time the condom breaks. Then you get pregnant. 1) You KNOW your parents will never look at you the same way once they know what their baby girl has been doing. 2) You're just a baby yourself, if you have that kid your life is pretty much over. Then what? I know alot of you are like "oh well that girl should have thought of it" but when you're a teenager caught up in whatever, you're not thinking about the after. And those situations aren't just the 1% . That happens every single day, to about half the girls in just about every single public high school. ... and besides, this world is over-populated as it is. The last thing we need are more people breeding and having kids they can't support.

Preachin' to the choir punkin.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 5:58:15 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Curios Lord his....Very wordy young man,

Hey, lets not be too hard on Curious Lord. Yes, he's a little wordy. OK, he's to wordy, what Starbucks is to coffee ... but, he did call me mean, and you can't buy compliments like that at any price!!

You are mean...

Mean Girl...

A poem by Domiguy.

Oh little mean girl sitting in the rain

it's dry inside and you look like

Your hopes are down the drain.

I lost my best friend, she said..

We haven't spoke in years

I killed her dog and burned her clothes

and told all her friends she's queer.

What did this friend do to you?...

Stab you behind your back?

No...She borrowed my mascara

and she never gave it back.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 8:21:33 PM

Real0ne

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Chris Rock on Abortion

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3041540033431997262

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 8:36:27 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Curios Lord his....Very wordy young man,

Hey, lets not be too hard on Curious Lord. Yes, he's a little wordy. OK, he's to wordy, what Starbucks is to coffee ... but, he did call me mean, and you can't buy compliments like that at any price!!

Meh. He's right, it was wordy. Didn't have much of a choice- not everything is simple enough to be summed up in a couple of words, and I feel some things are just worth the extra time and expense, such as getting this debate down and right once so it doesn't reply the same junk a thousand times over every time someone mentions it.

PS- Meh, being mean and silly at the same time's cute, so you're alright.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 7/18/2007 8:37:44 PM >

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 8:56:28 PM

caitlyn

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Most very bright people I know, tend to be wordy, and tend to over-explain just about everything. I think perhaps they miss the point that while a Corvette may not quite be a Ferrari, it's still a pretty fast car.

I also tend to think that overly bright people tend to bypass the very useful skill of presenting half the intended point, and letting the other person's mind fill in the blanks. I'm told that mastering this skill, is worth six figures of income.

Either way, I was just funnin' with ya.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 9:02:34 PM

CuriousLord

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Yeah.. just.. I don't think that people are getting this sort of thing in short. It is a bit frustrating.

No worries about the silliness. It is cute. More at a recognition level than an actual appreciation, at the moment, unformately- it's been a long day.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 9:09:19 PM

abytchgoddess4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Most would not object to an abortion being done in these cases, I know that I don't. Of course, living in free countries, no one has to shut the fuck up, even if they do disagree.

Fair enough, but I'm entitled to my opinion as well and I think they should. Can't force'm, but I can think it and say it.

And, btw...if most would not object to an abortion being done in those cases, we wouldn't be having this discussion as D&E would not have been outlawed in your country.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 9:15:54 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

People place different values on the unborn's life. These values often vary, even with the stage of developement it's at. A birth due to incest is often considered more determental than one under normal circumstances. So, someone who considers that baby's life more valuable than the convinience it would afford to one who simply didn't want it, but less valuable than the trauma it would impose on a victim of incest, may conclude there to be a difference here.

No argument here, except...

The Right-To-Lifers want to legislate things according to their own personal values on the unborn child's life, and have no regard for anybody else's personal values. They feel the State has some business being involved in the privacy between a woman and her doctor, and are trying to enact a vague and poorly written law to make it happen.

The Pro-Choice people like the law the way it is. A woman and her doctor have a legal right to privacy, and the
State has no business being involved in her care and treatment.

The point I keep making is that the logical points raised by the Right-To-Lifers contradict each other. When these contradictions are pointed out, their approach is to generally bullyrag, insult, and attempt to shout down the opposition.

So the question I am asking is, why is it murder to abort a 3 month old fetus when two 14 year olds have sex and one of them get pregnant, and not murder when a 14 year old is gang raped and ends up pregnant?

Any of you right to lifers care to actually answer the question?

Sinergy

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 9:19:27 PM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrymsonSins
Hmm.. What about if you're a 16 year old girl, who was always safe. Used protection and got tested regularly, and then one time the condom breaks. Then you get pregnant. 1) You KNOW your parents will never look at you the same way once they know what their baby girl has been doing. 2) You're just a baby yourself, if you have that kid your life is pretty much over. Then what? I know alot of you are like "oh well that girl should have thought of it" but when you're a teenager caught up in whatever, you're not thinking about the after. And those situations aren't just the 1% . That happens every single day, to about half the girls in just about every single public high school. ... and besides, this world is over-populated as it is. The last thing we need are more people breeding and having kids they can't support.

Well, I wasn't 16 when it happened to me, I was 15. Yeah, it was shocking to everyone who knew me. The end of the world....or at least my future, or so they all thought. Everyone wanted me to abort....and everyone really pressured me to do so. I chose instead to take responsibility for the life I helped to create, against all of their advice.

Did my parents look at me differently? Yeah, I guess they did. At first there was disappointment....or maybe just a lot of worry about my future, or their perceived lack of it. They also looked at me with an understanding that I had undeniably crossed that transitional line between childhood and adulthood and that there was no chance at turning back. I was suddenly making decisions for myself that they no longer had any control of. I'm not going to lie and say it was an easy time, it wasn't and there were some really rough patches. But in time they looked at me with pride and respect for making a tough commitment and backing that commitment with action.

So, did it ruin my life? Nah, I'd really have to disagree. If anything it enriched it. I might not have had the same life as some of my peers...but my life was rich and rewarding in ways they could not yet fathom. I have managed to accomplish many things, gone to school, held great paying, highly respectable postions, even become an owner of my own business. Sure, there were definitely obstacles along the way that needed to be overcome...but nothing really worth having ever comes easy it seems.

Commitment and responsibility are tough things, especially when one is so young. But I have to say that there has never been even one single moment that I have regretted the decision that I made. Had I chosen to abort I would have robbed myself of the opportunity of ever knowing one of the most amazing, intelligent and loving human beings I have ever known....my now 29 year old son. I can not imagine my life without him in it. I love him in ways that I could never even have imagined at that tender age I had that decision to make. But even more important, I like him. Not because he's my son, but because he is a man of character and integrity, a man who treats people with care and respect, a man who takes his own responsibilities and commitments in this world as seriously as I took mine to him. In another month or so, he and his wonderful mate will be gracing me with my first grandchild. Imagine all of the wonderous and amazing moments of my life that would never have occured had my decision been different those 29 years ago.

Just because a pregnancy occurs at an inconvenient time in a person's life, it doesn't mean the best option is to abort. Just because someone is young or unpartnered it doesn't mean that their life will be in ruins if they decide to have the child. Sometimes it can even be the best damn thing that ever happened to them.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 10:09:21 PM

NeedToUseYou

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edited to add the quote I was responded to...

quote:

So the question I am asking is, why is it murder to abort a 3 month old fetus when two 14 year olds have sex and one of them get pregnant, and not murder when a 14 year old is gang raped and ends up pregnant?

The obvious difference is one was choice, and the other was not.

It would seem holding someone responsible for the result of a violent action forced upon them would violate the basic concept of freedom in all regards.

Whereas choice based sex, and the consequences thereof is a result of ones own choices, and therefore would fall under the debate of responsibility, and right to life.

It seems obvious what the difference in that scenario is.

Or is the victim of an attack to become responsible for the other victims?

That is quite logical, if one is looking at it from the perceptive of responsibility, and choice, as the foremost of questions. How could it be fair or equitable to make the victim be responsible for the consequences of violence.

That seems absurd under any scenario be it abortion, car jacking, burglary, murder, etc...... The difference is personal choice in the actions that led to the occurrence.

Is the person with a gun to their head responsible for doing anything while the gun is pressed against their temple, or the consequences? I don't believe it's possible to hold the victim responsible and maintain any sense of rational law.

< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 7/18/2007 10:12:40 PM >

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 10:20:02 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

edited to add the quote I was responded to...

quote:

So the question I am asking is, why is it murder to abort a 3 month old fetus when two 14 year olds have sex and one of them get pregnant, and not murder when a 14 year old is gang raped and ends up pregnant?

The obvious difference is one was choice, and the other was not.

Your post does not answer my question. The fetus did not choose to rape anybody, yet the fetus is the one being murdered according to the right to lifers.

Feel free to answer the question asked.

Sinergy

p.s. I continue to maintain my position that the arguments of the Right To Lifers are circuitous and frequently contradictory.

p.p.s. Your argument simply supports my earlier statement that the entire purpose for this law is to take the control of a woman's body away from her.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/18/2007 10:36:04 PM

NeedToUseYou

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I did answer it in the rest of the quote.

It's simple.

It's like this, If I hold a gun to some woman's head and say I'm going to kill you unless you shoot some guy I point out on the street. Is she responsible? No. Why, because she was forced to do that in order to protect her life, and health.

So, the premise goes, if under that murder scenario, one is not responsible for murder when forced to threat of their own life. Then how could abortion even if outlawed otherwise, not be be allowed when the pregnancy was forced. As in the killing would be the fault of the rapist and charges could be levied, but not against the victim. As getting an abortion in that scenario would simply be putting the victim back to their original state as closely as possible.

Under your scenario. One would have to accept the premise that a victim can be pu;nished and held accountable for the actions of the attacker. In other words, in order to ban abortion when pregnancy was forced, we'd have to accept the premise that the woman had to be responsible for choices made by others against her. Seeing that we do not function in that regard in law, it would seem it would be a logical assumption that under that condition one would qualify as an exemption even if abortion in general were illegal.

It is quite logical, I assure you, if you view it as another crime.

So to draw a simple example.
Girl ->>>Raped>>>>Pregnancy>>>>No choice>>>No responsiblity for violence inflicted on others because of the attack>>>Abortion. >>>Rapist responsible.

Girl>>>>Gun To Head>>>>Forced to shoot random person>>>>No Choice>>>> No responsibility for violence inflicted on others because of attacker>>>Attacker responsible.

Seeing the only way in a pregnancy scenario to return the victim to the nearest state they were in before the attack(reduce effect of violence, on health, choice, and happiness), the conclusion is the only way to do that in an equitable manner is to allow the victim to stop being victimized by the forced pregnancy.

It makes sense to me.

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