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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 12:16:37 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

[...] I am a "crackpot" who believes that God is very much alive b 


Now, now, being a little bit, hmmm, original, certainly doesn't qualify you as a crackpot.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 12:40:56 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

[...] I am a "crackpot" who believes that God is very much alive b 


Now, now, being a little bit, hmmm, original, certainly doesn't qualify you as a crackpot.

Gee, kittinSol.  That's the nicest thing you've ever said about me......I think.  Usually, I would consider "original" a compliment but coming from you there's just got to be a slam in there somewhere.  I hope not.........luci

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 12:42:11 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

[...] I am a "crackpot" who believes that God is very much alive b 


Now, now, being a little bit, hmmm, original, certainly doesn't qualify you as a crackpot.

Gee, kittinSol.  That's the nicest thing you've ever said about me......I think.  Usually, I would consider "original" a compliment but coming from you there's just got to be a slam in there somewhere.  I hope not.........luci


Huh... okay.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 1:41:48 PM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Let's hear it again.

I am curious: how many people on this board actually believe abortion is criminal because they are christianally inclined?


To answer this question, I have to give a bit of background ...
 
I was raised, a traditional Catholic. Latin Mass, no meat on Friday and I was scheduled to go into the seminary.
 
As with all children/teen-agers, I became rebellious. I was, also fairly naive and became a father, before my 15th birthday (by two months) so, when I speak about abortion, I speak from a "worst-case scenario" perspective.
 
During my rebellious years, I claimed that there "is no God"; "God exists but, He's a sadist"; "I'm my own God." (a little Eastern philosophy, thrown in for good measure). I had, in short, no belief in any kind of Higher Power.
 
Even during these times, because my love of life, I was anti infanticide.
 
My scenario from previously, in this thread is because I lost a child in just that way (men having no rights regarding their children). So, again, I am speaking from experience.
 
I will answer you as honestly as I can. I don't think that my religious beliefs have anything to do with my thoughts on abortion. As a matter of fact, as I've previously stated, I think abortion should always be legal. One caveat, though: I believe that anyone guilty of a murder of an innocent (ANY innocent, no matter what the age) has something to answer for, in the next life. I no longer believe that when we die our souls go to a garage in Cleveland (Now, THAT'S "Hell"!).
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
Michael
 
P.S.: I'm no longer Catholic and I do identify myself as "Christian" (although, many "Christian" faiths would barre me from their "little clubs" based upon my beliefs) but, I still don't eat meat on Friday.

< Message edited by Satyr6406 -- 7/16/2007 1:42:49 PM >

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Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 3:32:31 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I'm a Christian, and proud of it, but even when I was agnostic, I felt the same about abortion, that in the overwhelming number of cases done for convienice, is wrong.

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Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 3:53:10 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

abortion, that in the overwhelming number of cases done for convienice, is wrong.



Level,  I beg you to be careful... the majority of abortions aren't done because it's more convenient. The majority of women who terminate a pregnancy had to think long and hard about making a life-changing, difficult decision. It's certainly not 'convenient', or 'easy'. It's a tough choice to have to make.

What is difficult is not bowing under society's pressure to be overly sentimental about what could have been. Women are the main bearers of life. And at times, we have to decide not to carry another life in order to maintain our own. It's difficult to accept for all concerned, believe me! But it's sometimes necessary: certainly, it's never, ever convenient.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 4:14:25 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

abortion, that in the overwhelming number of cases done for convienice, is wrong.



Level,  I beg you to be careful... the majority of abortions aren't done because it's more convenient. The majority of women who terminate a pregnancy had to think long and hard about making a life-changing, difficult decision. It's certainly not 'convenient', or 'easy'. It's a tough choice to have to make.

What is difficult is not bowing under society's pressure to be overly sentimental about what could have been. Women are the main bearers of life. And at times, we have to decide not to carry another life in order to maintain our own. It's difficult to accept for all concerned, believe me! But it's sometimes necessary: certainly, it's never, ever convenient.


Good evening, kittin. Let me explain myself better; when I say "convinience", I don't mean it as "easy" or  "non-chalant". I know it's a difficult decision for most women. "Convenient", to avoid "inconvenience" that being pregnant would result in.
 
I don't see most women having abortions as evil; I do see the act, in the vast majority of cases, as wrong, however.
 
But certainly not easy, for anyone.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 4:15:18 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I'm sure there are women somewhere that are capable of having an abortion and not give a fuck.  What is convenient about ending a potential life? I've never known a single person who has not wrestled and anguished over the decision...

What I particularly enjoy are women and men that now that they are a bit older and out of the imminent danger of having children who weigh in on the topic with moral superiority...When if they did some real soul searching and still possess the capability to remember what it was like to be younger....May not be so swift to pass judgement....Remember when you were young and you had that one night stand with that person that you really didn't know all that well....What if you or she got pregnant?

That's right you would have stopped everything...Your education, your life and gone full term in front of all your relatives...Worked at dairy queen and started your family....Or you would have given the child up for adoption.

I have some conservative friends that often voice their anti views on abortion till I remind them of little Sally Whatshername....The somewhat undesirable that they were screwing around with back in the day....If they would have knocked her up....They would have swam a mile up a river of shit to hear those magical words..."Do you think we should have an abortion?"

There is a huge difference between being pro choice and pro abortion...No one wants to have an abortion....But I will do what I can to make sure that a woman will always have the right to make that difficult choice.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 4:21:51 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I'm a Christian, and proud of it, but even when I was agnostic, I felt the same about abortion, that in the overwhelming number of cases done for convienice, is wrong.


this slave is a recovering Christian who relies on the message of the Christ, not the accepted dogma of any Christian sect, for spiritual guidance from time to time. it's a lot less confusing for this slave to turn the other cheek, treat folks as she would hope they would treat her(respectfully), give incessantly and leave the judgements up to the Great Architect and those directly involved.
 
her spiritual inclinations also have a lot to do with her belief and opinion that our government is in the WRONG legislating what a woman MUST or MUST NOT do with regards to her body, specifically her womb, such as produce offspring, no matter the circumstances.
 
while we are at it, they are just as WRONG to legislate what a woman MUST NOT do with her nipples, such as show them anywhere publicly, or in private clubs unless it has been sanctioned as a female-nipple-viewing-area("gentlemen's" club, "adult" pool, porn shoot, etc.?) with duly paid admission for all who will be viewing.
 
and finally, the Federal Government is incredibly WRONG, to decide that five folks(women OR men) can legally have their medicine, even supply it for them, to relieve their pain while thousands of other folks will be arrested for it, because according to the same Government, the medicine "has no medicinal value"

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 7/16/2007 4:26:45 PM >

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 4:46:24 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I'm a Christian, and proud of it, but even when I was agnostic, I felt the same about abortion, that in the overwhelming number of cases done for convienice, is wrong.


this slave is a recovering Christian who relies on the message of the Christ, not the accepted dogma of any Christian sect, for spiritual guidance from time to time. it's a lot less confusing for this slave to turn the other cheek, treat folks as she would hope they would treat her(respectfully), give incessantly and leave the judgements up to the Great Architect and those directly involved.
 
her spiritual inclinations also have a lot to do with her belief and opinion that our government is in the WRONG legislating what a woman MUST or MUST NOT do with regards to her body, specifically her womb, such as produce offspring, no matter the circumstances.
 
while we are at it, they are just as WRONG to legislate what a woman MUST NOT do with her nipples, such as show them anywhere publicly, or in private clubs unless it has been sanctioned as a female-nipple-viewing-area("gentlemen's" club, "adult" pool, porn shoot, etc.?) with duly paid admission for all who will be viewing.
 
and finally, the Federal Government is incredibly WRONG, to decide that five folks(women OR men) can legally have their medicine, even supply it for them, to relieve their pain while thousands of other folks will be arrested for it, because according to the same Government, the medicine "has no medicinal value"


Good evening, beth. I wholeheartedly agree with you about female nipples, and the "medicinal" issue



_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 5:01:49 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

There is a huge difference between being pro choice and pro abortion...No one wants to have an abortion....But I will do what I can to make sure that a woman will always have the right to make that difficult choice.



And it's at times like these that I love the domiguy's intelligence: nobody can ever be in favour of abortion. It's not something anyone can truly adhere to! But one can be wholeheartedly for a woman's right to choose.

Thank you, domi.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 5:11:52 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

There is a huge difference between being pro choice and pro abortion...No one wants to have an abortion....But I will do what I can to make sure that a woman will always have the right to make that difficult choice.



And it's at times like these that I love the domiguy's intelligence: nobody can ever be in favour of abortion. It's not something anyone can truly adhere to! But one can be wholeheartedly for a woman's right to choose.

Thank you, domi.


I'm not sure I agree. (About the "being in favour" part, not DG's brains )

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 6:03:18 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I am going to be very unpopular here, but I believe abortion should be legal.  I think a woman should have the right to choose for herself.

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Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 6:29:13 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

I am going to be very unpopular here, but I believe abortion should be legal.  I think a woman should have the right to choose for herself.


Popular or not, you have the right to express your opinion. *cues Star Spangled Banner*

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 6:44:49 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		"Popularity" is a very American concept. Not one I was ever worried about.

As a matter of fact, considering that most of the time, the majority is wrong, it will make you unpopular to disagree with it.

Therefore being unpopular can be a sign that one is right .

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 7:53:59 PM   
DSwriter


Posts: 39
Joined: 2/14/2007
From: New Hope, PA
Status: offline 		Pres. Bush's most enduring legacy will be the appointment of two conservative Supreme Court Justices, Samuel Alito and John Roberts. 

The entire mood of the Court has shifted from the left to the right.  Most people are not aware of it, but dozens of extremely conservative opinions are already coming out of the Court.

The experts predict that when the abortion issue comes before the Court again, Roe v. Wade will be shot down.  It's only a matter of time.

This has already happened in several Central American countries where the Catholic Church is tied very closely to the government.  In places like El Salvador or Nicaragua where abortion is illegal - it is considered murder.  The penalty is life imprisonment.  (In Nicaragua and Chile you can't even have an abortion to save the mother's life.)

The New York Times ran an extremely informative article on this several months ago.  Women with money fly to Florida to have their abortions.  Poor women who can't afford birth control and can't afford another mouth to feed are forced into back alleys where the abortions are performed by dubious people wielding clothes hangers.

The Times interviewed one poor young 25 year old woman who went to one of these back alleys, where the person performing the abortion perforated her uterus.  The girl's choice was bleed to death or go to the hospital.  When she went to the hospital the doctors reported her to a government agent that is stationed there specifically to catch women like this.  The young girl was arrested, taken to court and convicted of murder.  She's now serving a life sentence.  The really sad thing is she has four children already - and they are now living on the street.

The Times also interviewed a pro-Life Senator here in the States.  The Times asked him if he believed abortion was murder, and the congressman responded "Yes!"  Then when the reporter told them how things are handled in Central America, and wanted to know what the penalty would be here in the U.S., the Senator did not have an answer.

< Message edited by DSwriter -- 7/16/2007 7:57:28 PM >

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 8:12:55 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		It is a sad and tragic subject, from many viewpoints.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 8:31:55 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSwriter
The Times interviewed one poor young 25 year old woman who went to one of these back alleys, where the person performing the abortion perforated her uterus.  The girl's choice was bleed to death or go to the hospital.  When she went to the hospital the doctors reported her to a government agent that is stationed there specifically to catch women like this.  The young girl was arrested, taken to court and convicted of murder.  She's now serving a life sentence.  The really sad thing is she has four children already - and they are now living on the street.


God loves the poor and homeless - that's why he keeps making so many of them!

-----

There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because...

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 9:20:03 PM   
abytchgoddess4u


Posts: 268
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		I so wanted to quote that...but you beat me! LOL

Instead, I'll have to quote two of my favourite bumper stickers...which keep 'mysteriously' disappearing off my car:

"A World Of Wanted Children Would Make A World Of Difference"

...and,

"Pro-Child, Pro-Family, Pro-Choice...Every Child A Wanted Child"

Unless one has made the absolute choice between life for their unborn child or death for themselves...they should STFU.

ETA: A wanted and damaged beyond repair fetus is an even worse scenario...but it happens most often with these terminations. God/dess have mercy on the souls of those of you that would judge the creators of these beings.


< Message edited by abytchgoddess4u -- 7/16/2007 9:23:13 PM >

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Ask all from yourself." Rumi

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George Sand

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 1:51:51 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Hello Level
 
I am a christian.  I do not like abortion - I don't believe anyone - or at least many people do, however I don't believe that the procedure should be criminalized or made illegal and there is no way I believe that any woman or man should be made to feel guilty for having to undertake the procedure.  I know you didn't ask the question, but the reason I have responded to you in particular is that abortion isn't convienient (and I do understand what you mean by convienient) and that is one of the unfortunate reasons (in reference back to the OP) that D&X happen.  I am lucky, I live in the UK - we do not have the whole fundemental mess that occurs in the states.  But If you look at the percentage of abortion reasons when it comes to partial birth, most occur due to the child already being dead or terminal.  Another reason high on the percentage (remembering the percentage is extremely small) is because a women cannot gain an early trimester termination.  Making early trimester abortions more difficult can mean more 'partial birth' abortions - how can that be justifiable by any party or religion?
 
Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 7/17/2007 1:53:30 AM >

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