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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 9:15:01 AM

kittinSol

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ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

but it's not her body, the fetus is not her body. It is life.If she doesnt want the baby, wear a condom, take the pill, get your tubes tied, or better yet dont have sex

The fetus is inside her body, doofus. I fucking well hope YOU don't have sex for fear of getting a woman pregnant, by the way. Unless you had a vasectomy.

Have you had a vasectomy?

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Post #: 101

RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 9:16:15 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

but it's not her body, the fetus is not her body. It is life.If she doesnt want the baby, wear a condom, take the pill, get your tubes tied, or better yet dont have sex

I have 2 questions for you NavyDDG54.

Do you have sexual intercourse with a female?
Have you had a vasectomy?

If you've not had a vasectomy I hope you realise the risk you are taking in getting a female pregnant.

Bingo camille, we thought alike :-)

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Post #: 102

RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 9:17:56 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

NavyDDG54:

I am glad that you had the cajones to write that - very brave. I am overjoyed that you have already agreed to my experiment based on your premise that things inside you are not necessarily part of your body and that you should have no rights over those things inside your body not intrinsically you.

What I'd like to do is have a live gerbil inserted in your asshole and kept alive for around 9 months. We will have the scratchy feet of the animal covered in soft rubber pads and build a small helmet to supply the gerbil with air from a hose dangling out your ass. The gerbil will be removed one hour a day for feeding and watering, all other activities will take place inside of your body. As the gerbil is not part of your body, I am sure that this arrangement will meet with your enthusiastic approval.

Please let me know your earliest opportunity for insertion of the gerbil.

That is priceless!!! But serious too, because an unwanted pregnancy is akin to having an alien growing inside of you. I, for one, cannot think of a worst torture.

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Post #: 103

RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 9:26:57 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

but it's not her body, the fetus is not her body. It is life.If she doesnt want the baby, wear a condom, take the pill, get your tubes tied, or better yet dont have sex

Sticking with the OP NavyDDG54 - do you have any idea what a partial birth abortion is and when and why it is usually done? If you did you would see how pointless your statement was. Looking forward to your response.

Peace
the.dark

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Post #: 104

RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 12:05:07 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

The Abortion Argument, general:

Your style's terribly long-winded. It's earily reminiscent of a high school student's verbose attempt to make one idea last longer on paper.

Your argument is easily compacted into one sentence: you believe abortion is murder.

Many others do: it's not because you make long block paragraphs that your point carries any more weight, Lordy. Now, try again.

You're almost as bad as that Republican fellow missing the sarcasm. Almost. You didn't really miss sarcasm- you just completely misread a paper.

I'm not even entirely sure what to say about the condescending bit. I feel like a little brat just walked into one of my Chem lectures and corrected the professor, telling him that the chemical analysis on the board was obviously just a bird, and he should stop spending so long talking about it. What, then, might one do with such a child?

Have a seat and listen. Perhaps you'll learn something- though such is not typical of your ilk.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 12:09:09 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

First off...You would have to end the current practice of in vitro fertilization....More than one egg is fertilized and a maximum of two eggs that have been successfully fertilized are then utilized....What happens to the rest of the fertilized eggs? They are destroyed thereby committing MUUUUUURDER!!!!...MUHAHAHAHA!

What if the doctor were to accidentally mishandle the fertilized egg....Would he/she be guilty of murder? What if he dropped an unfertilized egg before it could be fertilized...There is every chance that the fertilization could have been successful and he has now deprived that egg from growing into a viable human being which could have emerged as our next American Idol....Murder?

This is for the most part a bunch of crap. But not every pregnancy goes "the distance" and it would seem that the state would now put themselves squarely inside a woman's womb as to any and every reason that a miscarriage came about. Did you drink? Did you exercise? What did you eat? You were not in good physical shape prior to getting pregnant...Are you not fully responsible or play a huge part in your pregnancy not coming to fruition, and thereby are you not directly responsible and should you not be held accountable for "your child's death?"....Manslaughter perhaps? (I use the terminology of "child" only to drive the point home)

It is far from perfect....We should leave the abortion laws as written...If there is a God someone will have to answer...If there is not..So be it.

Blah. I expected better from you. =/

To put it in short, since I guess you didn't read it, my Argument said that abortion -isn't- murder.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 12:15:51 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

but it's not her body, the fetus is not her body. It is life.

It is her body. She is the primary, the host.
You may choose to think that the fetus is primary, I do not consider it that way.

It's termonology. A moot point.

If the fetus -is- part of her body, then one needs to reconsider the extents of control one has over its own body.
If it -isn't- part of her body, then one needs to reconsider the effects it has on her body, regardless of being part of it or not.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 12:22:21 PM

CuriousLord

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Gah. People in these discussions- looking for a black and white, easy way out. "Not part of her body" and "murder" versus "part of her body" and "not murder". Overly simplistic notions, none of which are right! Yet people still debate these things.

I realize I think too highly of people- but can't someone out there think long enough to consider things in earnest? Enough with the rudimentary labels and the agenda-based opinions. There are facts on this subject. It's not so hard to understand. It may take a bit of thought, though it's better than spending your time puking up empty, emotion-driven words.

There are two legitimate sides to the debate. Acknowledge and consider both. Those of you too afraid to consider the other side's points in earnest are pathetic.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 12:32:16 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

The only thing that will work against pregnancy is abstinence

Tell that to a rape survivor.

Sinergy

p.s. It always fascinates me that aborting a fetus when a woman is gang raped or survives incest is not considered murder, yet aborting a fetus when two 14 year olds have sex and one gets knocked up is.

p.p.s. In case anybody missed the first few chapters, I am completely 100% pro-choice. I believe a woman has a right to her reproductive freedom, and until the anti-abortion crowd steps up to the plate to financially and emotionally guarantee the fetus is cared for to adulthood, I dont think their arguments are really worth listening to.

p.p.p.s. Edited to point out that for in-vitro fertilization, up to seven embryos are created. Three are implanted. If one of the embryos implants into the uterus, the rest are discarded. if not, the rest are tried. As Domiguy pointed out, what the heck is the difference between sexual and in-vitro fertilization to fertilize an egg IF killing a fertilized egg is murder?

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 7/17/2007 12:35:16 PM >

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 12:50:37 PM

TheGaggingWh0re

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

The only thing that will work against pregnancy is abstinence

Tell that to a rape survivor.

Sinergy

p.s. It always fascinates me that aborting a fetus when a woman is gang raped or survives incest is not considered murder, yet aborting a fetus when two 14 year olds have sex and one gets knocked up is.

p.p.s. In case anybody missed the first few chapters, I am completely 100% pro-choice. I believe a woman has a right to her reproductive freedom, and until the anti-abortion crowd steps up to the plate to financially and emotionally guarantee the fetus is cared for to adulthood, I dont think their arguments are really worth listening to.

p.p.p.s. Edited to point out that for in-vitro fertilization, up to seven embryos are created. Three are implanted. If one of the embryos implants into the uterus, the rest are discarded. if not, the rest are tried. As Domiguy pointed out, what the heck is the difference between sexual and in-vitro fertilization to fertilize an egg IF killing a fertilized egg is murder?

Can I hug you?
(Yeah, that's my pathetic response to this thread because everything I could say has already been said. So the offering of hugs is all I have left.)

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 12:52:05 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheGaggingWh0re

Can I hug you?

I never turn down a hug, darlin

Sinergy

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Post #: 111

RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 1:16:38 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Abortion, the act of destroying offspring in the mother's womb, is under a lot of controversy. The argument is often about mortality and ethics- is it right or not?

Could you be a little it more general in your introduction? You dwell on specifics far too much.

quote:

The offspring's life or the mother's decision?

The mother's decision to what?

quote:

Why, one might consider, do we not simply kill orphans? Such kills would likely be benificial to society, rooting out those that would likely live a hard and service-consuming childhood when there are plenty of children in the world already. While a particular orphan might be the one to invent a cure to cancer, the same could be said for another child to be born to take his place, as the typical orphan is no more advantaged than the typical non-orphan. Perhaps, less so.

How does killing orphans benefit society? Please explain.

quote:

Why, then, do we care to try one for murder, should one do such a thing, if it would be practical? Two somewhat similar arguments seem to come into play. The first would be that, it would condone what might be considered murder to some (in the contemporary, most). Still, should murder be appended with "not applicable to orphans", this wouldn't be a problem. In the same way, many, a number of which are often associated with "pro-choice", would have "murder" appended "not applicatable to unborn".

I'm sure there is lots of thoughts behind the adverbs: I assure you though that the written word is supposed to convey meaning. It reads like you're enjoying the sound of your own voice, and little else. As a matter of fact...

quote:

As this would be an argument of definitions for mental considers in the vague, this could be a valid argument to consider, though a messy one that few might be able to follow.

... your prose literally reads like you translated something into english using a dodgey online translation tool. I give up here because your post is too meaty, too manly, too male for me, Lordy. And this is what pisses me off with your ilk: you are condescending towards others, and in this particular postering of yours it is more obvious than ever. Not once do you address the subject from the point of view of a woman. The person who is, after all, the first sentient being that is concerned. I think you're scared of women.

Too right too.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 1:18:42 PM

KatyLied

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quote:

Tell that to a rape survivor.

I was telling it to someone who listed different methods of birth control. In an attempt to educate him that the only effective means of birth control is abstinence.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 1:23:56 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Tell that to a rape survivor.

I was telling it to someone who listed different methods of birth control. In an attempt to educate him that the only effective means of birth control is abstinence.

I know. I did not mean to sound like I was attacking you, and I apologize if it sounded that way.

Simply making the point that abstinence is not always on the list of possible choices a woman has.

Sinergy

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 1:27:19 PM

KatyLied

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Oh, sorry, group hug?

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 1:28:30 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Oh, sorry, group hug?

Of course, darlin

Sinergy

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 1:53:48 PM

porphyria

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54
If she doesnt want the baby, wear a condom, take the pill, get your tubes tied, or better yet dont have sex

I find it rather odd how comfortable people are entrusting the rearing of a child to those careless enough not to use birth control to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.

........
I guess next time I'll use some sort of emoticon to indicate when I'm making a tongue-in-cheek comment....

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 2:00:34 PM

Aileen68

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quote:

ORIGINAL: porphyria

I find it rather odd how comfortable people are entrusting the rearing of a child to those careless enough not to use birth control to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.

Being sucky at choosing an effective birth control method doesn't mean one will become a lousy, unloving parent.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 2:03:27 PM

KatyLied

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And again, I'm going to sing in the "you can use birth control and still wind up pregnant" choir, it doesn't mean you are a careless person. It means the birth control failed. My aunt had an ectopic pregnancy in her late 40's. She had her tubes tied 10 years before it happened. She's responsible, her birth control that was touted nearly 100% effective, failed.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/17/2007 2:09:12 PM

sweetNsmartBBW

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Question? Why is it that it's okay to abort a fetus (arguably by some even when it's at a point of viability)- but it's not okay to starve/kill/ abandon an unwanted newborn? Wherein lies the difference?

I fully understand that women want control over their bodies. I get the whole rape/incest/medical intervention thing. Personally, I would never go the abortion route. Even if my own life were in danger or I did not want the child. Probably for two reasons...

First- I was there when my cousin's newborn son died in her arms. I saw what it means for a new life to end. I held that little lifeless baby in my arms- and wept. No, it was not a abortion- but it ~was~ the end of a human life...and regardless of why or how it came about- the tragedy would be no less real. My suggestion to anybody that advocates abortion as birth control is to spend some time in the NICU of a children's hospital and hold the tiny, but perfectly formed, hand of a preemie. Then come back and tell me it's a fetus, not a baby...

Secondly, I am the loving aunt of an adopted one year old. Just because a birth-parent does not want a child does NOT mean that child is 'unwanted'. There are often other alternatives; not as convenient ones as immediately ending an unwanted pregnancy- but often with much better long term outcomes for everyone involved.

As for the in vitro question...."extra" embryos are the focus of several recent legal battles. Many are not discarded....and some are even being "adopted" to be implanted in infertile couples.

I know this is an issue that has always strongly divided people. I also know of many women that regret their decision to abort later if life....some not even all that much later. Others don't seem to have that reaction. It's a highly emotional thing...and while women can argue tooth and nail that it's "my" body...when there is a second person along for the ride- the truth is, it's ~our~ body...even if I'm the woman is calling the shots.

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