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Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 6:12:24 AM

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BATON ROUGE, Louisiana - Louisiana became the first American state Friday to outlaw a controversial abortion procedure that involves partially removing the fetus intact from a woman's uterus, then crushing or cutting its skull to complete the abortion.

The new law allows the procedure in only one situation at any time during pregnancy: when failure to perform it would endanger the mother's life. The procedure would be a crime in all other cases, even if the pregnancy is expected to cause health problems for the mother.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19753751

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 6:25:41 AM

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Personally, I would not mind seeing the majority of abortions made illegal. I doubt that is going to happen.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 6:39:56 AM

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I agree on both points, LT. And good morning.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 6:46:13 AM

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when i was in college- i encouraged my best friend Nancy to abort. we went to the museum which had a fetus desplay. i feel there is blood on my hands being that i advised her this.

i personally am against partial birth abortions- it is too close to murder.

THO i am at odds with myself- as I believe a woman/man has a right to control their body.

then- when i consider that i am gay and dont make babies- i figure it is a nonissue with me.

any action/non action can be ILLEGAL w a stroke of a pen. i prefer the carrot to the stick.

anyhow- there are plenty of willing adults that want to adopt.....

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 7:06:20 AM

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Good morning to you Level.

As a fairly liberal person politically this tends to be one subject I differ on with otherwise like minded aqaintances. It is quite simple for me. No one has been able to convince me that a fetus, upon the moment of conception, is not a human being. Therefore, it is not just the woman's body and her freedom to do with as she wishes but two bodies. I don't condone murder for the sake of convenience.

That being said there are people I love a great deal that have had abortions. It is their choice to deal with and I am not going to pass judgement as I don't feel it is my place to do so. It is a personal, moral, issue to me. I don't know if I am right or wrong in how I have come to this opinion, it just is what it is for ME. Since I am not the person to create the laws, and therefore not on a jury to determine guilt or innocence......my opinion only matters to me and mine.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 7:23:39 AM

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Again, very well said, LT.

Like you, there are those I care for and respect, that differ with me on the abortion issue. Some might think this is hypocritical of me *shrugs and smiles*. Maybe so, but it is what it is.

Do you ever allow your views on abortion enter into your thoughts when it's time to vote?

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 7:50:00 AM

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Of course it enters my mind but is not a deciding factor in and of itself. With our current political climate I feel, perhaps inaccurately, that a candidate would probably not go against the "norm" for her/his political affiliation, regardless of their personal feelings. Just because it is such an emotional hot button issue. Let's face it, if you are a liberal you are "supposed" to support abortion. If you are a religious rightwinger you are "supposed" to be a fervid pro-lifer.

While I don't believe in blindly following anyone, least of all a political faction, I think that when voting we need to look first at a canditate's "whole package". There is never a perfect choice. Almost the lesser of evils at times. To further complicate things I also believe that timing is more important than is often considered. It is not just what candidate is best but also what candidate is best for the job at that particular time.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 7:58:31 AM

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I think I do allow it to influence me to a point. I have the trouble where I am sort of liberal on most things, but this isn't one of them. I have found that with the way I believe about abortion, along with a few other different subjects, it's almost impossible for me to not give up atleast one thing that I hold dear to when voting someone into office. I try to look at what those things are, and what the real chances of making a difference in those areas would be if they ever tried. I have found that there is usually something they can change (or have a decent shot at), while something else they don't have a snowballs chance at pushing thru. I will usually vote for the one that I think has the best chance at making a difference in this world, or atleast to the causes that mean the most to me. I don't really hold most political figures in very high regard in the first place, I don't trust a thing they say, and I automatically take it with a grain of salt at election time.

I know that this is one of those things I do hold the most dear after watching my friends and others abort babies I would love to have. I don't hate those friends, not at all, and I do try my very hardest to never judge others. It does break my heart, I can't deny that. I would never quit loving someone just for that reason, though I would hope to encourage them to either use birth control or keep their legs shut in the future. They are going to have to live with it after, and what comes years down the road when they start seeing children that would have been that age, or maybe they can never get pregnant again..both are horrid things to deal with. I can't walk a mile in their shoes having made the choice, but no one can walk in mine having to keep from falling apart everytime I am in the presence of a baby because my heart gets to aching so bad. We are all human and we all make mistakes, I think it's more what we learn and take with us from them that matters.

~sin

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 7:59:37 AM

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FR~

While I understand that there is sometimes a valid need for abortion, I can not be in any way supportive of partial birth abortions.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 9:41:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

BATON ROUGE, Louisiana - Louisiana became the first American state Friday to outlaw a controversial abortion procedure that involves partially removing the fetus intact from a woman's uterus, then crushing or cutting its skull to complete the abortion.

The new law allows the procedure in only one situation at any time during pregnancy: when failure to perform it would endanger the mother's life. The procedure would be a crime in all other cases, even if the pregnancy is expected to cause health problems for the mother.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19753751

This must be extremely, emotionally difficult on the doctor and his assistants performing this procedure also. (forget any monies paid- everyone suffers in this)

When I was a young Catholic.. it was preached that the mother always was to give her life for the children a case like this. If the pregnancy was going to take the mother's life.. so be it.

Let's get rid of the pharmacists who refuse to issue the morning after pill and all the things that cause a delay to this extreme.

Also, let's teach our sons that their seed is WORTH something and slopping it around causes consequences and does no honor to himself nor anyone else. If they impregnate someone who is forced to carry to term- they either take care of that child or get neutered like any other alley cat. If their fetus is going to be removed by late term abortion- make him watch.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 9:55:10 AM

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I believe the cutoff for parents aborting their kids should be either 18 or 21, experts can decide which is the best age of the two.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 10:36:43 AM

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wow,,,,
blame it on the pharmacist,,,and the male....
priceless

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/14/2007 9:13:20 PM

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Roe v. Wade will trump this law eventually.

Unless this law was put into place to force it into the Supreme Court to try to have Roe v. Wade overturned.

It will be interesting to hear the opinions from the justices about why they are voting to overturn a law protecting the doctor / patient privacy between a woman and her doctor.

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Sinergy

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/15/2007 1:57:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse, Post 2

Personally, I would not mind seeing the majority of abortions made illegal.

Nor would I.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse, Post 5

As a fairly liberal person politically this tends to be one subject I differ on with otherwise like minded aqaintances.

Republicans are pro-life. Republicans are evil. If you're not an evil Bush-loving Republican who wants to kill innocent Iraqis for oil so that the rich can get richer off our tax dollars and gas money, you must be as different from Republicans as possible, and, thus, pro-choice.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/15/2007 5:27:41 AM

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Tigress; I too am "supposed" to support abortion. And I did for many years. I come to conclude all life is sacred.

Crushed the skull, to extract the fetus- MURDER.

I was astounded when I came to a small town area. They dont beleive in abortion in any sense. Hence; a ton of retarded. Behind the white picket fence norman rockwall houses- is molestion.... a bigger %, then I would have guessed. The baby is kept- and often retarded per inbreeding.

I knew a young lady- her step mom begged her not to abort- said she would raise the kid. [it would have worked] Well Wendy went ahead and aborted. That was sad.

Many are on birth control pills.

BTW- I support stem cell research 1000%. Reagan, was against- then he did 11 years- in dementia... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 3:25:56 AM

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The life and health of the mother both need to be taken into account in these circumstances.
Outlawing the procedure will send desperate women across state lines or worse, to unlicensed and unqualified doctors.

(spelling edit)

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 7/16/2007 3:29:27 AM >

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 7:25:09 AM

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All abortion should be illegal save for when delivering the child endangers the mother. It is not an issue about controlling your body, it's an issue about murder. plain and simple, abortion is murder.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 8:33:24 AM

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Each to their own. I shall simply remind those that argue against abortion that nobody ever forces them to have one performed on to themselves.

That's the 'I respect your opinion' line out of the way. Now, for the facts.

'Partial birth abortion' is a political term that was meted out by the Republican party when it decided to use a particular abortion technique as a means to unite all on the anti-choice front. This technique was devised in the early nineties and is actually called intact dilation and evacuation. It is sometimes used as an alternative to plain D&X (in under 1% of cases). The method allows for a pregnancy to be terminated without such a high risk of uterine perforation as a normal D&X procedure. It is a medical decision made by doctors in late pregnancy. Its aim is not cruelty or muder but the safety of the patient and her general welfare.

Here is what I think the debate is truly about: people with an anti-choice agenda have decided to focus on the intact D&E procedure because it has such a potential for mobilising opinion - not a difficult thing to do with such a delicate, potentially painful subject matter. To defend the ban on the procedure requires telling judges that pulling a fetus out in dismendered pieces is legal and safe, and medically sound, but that taking a intact fetus out so that there is less risk of perforating the womb, and so that the woman may grieve over the body, is a criminal offence.

I attach a couple of very informative articles. The first is a testimony made by a young woman whose twin pregnancy wasn't viable - this was discovered during her six months scan: http://www.barryyeoman.com/articles/gina.html . The second link is a very good witness account - and very non-emotional: http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2002/07/24/late_ter .

There is a terrible picture of Baby Bush and his cronies gleefully signing the 'partial birth ban': it's terrible because it shows a dozen men in suits smiling on as they attempt to take away medical progress from their women peers. I think it's disgusting: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/images/20031105-1_p35410-21-515h.html

I had a 'medical abortion' last year, whereby I took prostaglandins to provoque the contractions: there was no surgical intervention, and I was lucky, as it was early in the pregnancy. Yet, when the RU486 was brought out in France in the early eighties, the entire anti-choice lobby was up in arms. Now, they're up in arms because of a surgical procedure.

If you don't want it, don't do it, but don't attempt to take our rights away from us. Because these rights were hard-fought for, and no woman goes for a termination of a pregnancy singing and dancing. It is, alas, a necessary thing. And if it is illegal, she will do it anyway.

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 8:43:05 AM

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I am an absolutist. Property Rights are ABSOLUTE in a Free Country.

The Mother is THE CREATOR of the Child, and therefore retains absolute property rights in that child.

The alternative is that The State retains absolute property rights in that child.

Do you really, REALLY, want ALL CHILDREN to be Slaves of The State?

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RE: Louisiana bans partial birth abortion - 7/16/2007 8:58:12 AM

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Why are you looking at me, fargly? You know we agree on almost everything

.

Your concise economic argumentation also leads me to this wholly (holy!) mercantile point: if all the accidental pregnancies are taken to their terms, are those righteous people that wanted the births going to pay for the nappies, the food, the schooling, the clothes, the general care, the college years... etcaetera?

Not that it's the point, but money talks aye

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 7/16/2007 9:06:45 AM >

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