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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I notice quite often when I mention the axion of "Serve/Obey or Leave" people often take it that I mean that as a threat.

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Many people refer to it as a threat. I hear phrases like "The power of the dominant rests in their ability to end the relationship." or "If the slave wont do what the master wants, then the master must end the relationship."

Personally, I find this to be silly.

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I think an M/S relationship is based on authority like a vanilla relationship is based on love. It wont be acceptable in a vanilla relationship to say "If you dont love me, I will leave you!" so I dont find it very acceptable to say "If you dont obey me, I will leave you".

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So, therefore, I dont refer to the "Serve/Obey or Leave" as a threat, but rather as an understanding of the relationship.

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If we arent doing our parts, then we dont really have an authority dynamic and therefore we arent really a Master and slave.

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Much like a cook is defined by cooking food and a mechanic is defined by repairing car, I think a Master is defined by having authority and a slave is defined by obeying that authority. If a cook didnt cook food, it would be silly to call them a cook. The same goes for a mechanic who doesnt fix any cars.

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Therefore if a slave willfully disobeys me whenever she feals like it, then it is hard for me to call them my slave.

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This however is just a simple explanation and understanding of my style and the kind of dynamic I want as its developed up until now. This doesnt mean in the least that I will dump someone because they are imperfect and not "uberly obedient" and it CERTAINLY does not mean that I will ever result to using emotional blackmail like "If you dont obey me, I'll leave you."

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ORIGINAL: angelic


And as i was typing this, i was thinking what if i had an Owner who wanted me to give up my coffee?? That would be suffering!  (Ok i just added another hard limit)

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There are some things he has had me do that have been downright dreadful and I didn't find joy in them at all, until later when the result of having done so was an amazing change in our relationship

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
In fact the same people saying you need to prove ownership by getting her to do things she doesn't like or finds a hardship would be some of the loudest detractors from that position when it involved things that are -really- dreadful and the slave actually obeying those orders.

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ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

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ORIGINAL: angelic

Perception is a very big part of it.  If the Owner believes that suffering must occur for the slave to grow, but there is nothing the slave perceives as suffering because everything she does, she does for the Owner, gladly, happliy and without question, what then?

i am not trying to be argumentative, i am really trying to understand.

Personally, i do not need to suffer in order to grow.

From my own personal experience I can gladly, happily and without question suffer through something for him.  I do not think the concepts are mutually exclusive.  However, it may depend on how you define suffering. 

As an example, he recently made a new protocol where I have to ask permission before eating any junk food.  To add to it, a coworker's mom is visiting from Belgium and brought me a box of my favorite chocolate, Cote d'Or Black of Black Mignonnettes.  He knows this is my favorite and he satisfies his sadistic desires by having me take out a piece of chocolate, smell it and then put it back.  Just the smell makes my mouth start to water and I crave to have a piece.  The desire for the chocolate is keenly felt and I suffer through the craving.  However, the pleasure that he gets out of this just makes me laugh.

The act of him controlling this thing that I crave enhances my perception of our authority dynamic.  This fulfills me.  To crave it and be denied creates a challenge for me to work through and also creates joy in watching him be so pleased.

The dichotomy of it is not something that I try to figure out; I accept it and appreciate it for what it gives me.

Knight's Kyra

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ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
In fact the same people saying you need to prove ownership by getting her to do things she doesn't like or finds a hardship would be some of the loudest detractors from that position when it involved things that are -really- dreadful and the slave actually obeying those orders.

Maybe it is a perception issue, but I did not understand anyone to say in this thread that others needed to prove their ownership of their slaves by doing things the slave doesn't like or finds a hardship. 

What I understood is that they were saying that they enjoyed doing things that demonstrated their ownership of their slave and part of what demonstrated it was when their slave did something she didn't like or found hard to do.


Knight's Kyra

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Wicked evil man!!! That is just purely ......... sadistic!

(imagine that)

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I had to laugh, and trust me when I say I am joking here, but of course a slave won't suffer if she lists virtually everything she finds uncomfortable on her limit list. 

But in all seriousness, in my case, it is not that I necessarily want to suffer for him, it is that I am willing to (although I have been known to beg to do some very difficult things for him, simply because I felt driven to).  And I do not always do it happily.  There are some things he has had me do that have been downright dreadful and I didn't find joy in them at all, until later when the result of having done so was an amazing change in our relationship.  Now, just because something is dreadful doesn't mean I'm complaining about it, either.  I simply do it, without question, because he has required it of me.  There are some things I've held a deep breath for and done, without smiling, without complaining, simply bucked up and did.

And it's not that he sets out looking for things that will cause me suffering.  But he does find it more endearing to know I am willing to do whatever it takes, regardless of hardship, suffering, difficulty, whatever.  To see evidence of it simply touches his heart and likely feeds his ego as well.  Such difficulties also aid in my own growth and strength.  When I mentally run down the list of difficult and dreadful things I have accomplished for him, it seems there is nothing the world can throw at me that I can not handle.  In my particular situation, I don't see any of that as a bad thing.

But I'll agree, if he made me give up my Peets (coffee), well damn, that's suffering! 

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie


Hii girlie,

I think over the years I have had so many of these events, and he has changed my life so much in the positive direction that I look at orders, any orders within his scope at the end result you are talking about ...his pleasure, our relationship growing, or his business holdings growing. I do know to get me to miserable in this relationship he'd have to push into areas that hurt my little guy or remove me from my little guy and from him...that would be dreadful. I'm not sure I can say I'd come out of those hardships and trials a better person and more positive about our relationship, perhaps if he made me go through the things that would dreadful to me they would cause our relationship to be even better. 

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This is like the love issue, he could get rid of me because he doesn't love me, I'm thankful caring for me is enough. He could get rid of me because the relationship is so good and positive for me that nothing he does anymore causes me to consider life with him to be "suffering", I'm thankful he doesn't. Those feelings just add to my beliefs that being his is the best thing that could of ever happened to me, which makes it even less likely to view anything he demands as hardship. We are at the point where the only way to get that effect is to go into areas that are not within his scope of ethics or needs.

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If he he did demand I hurt my child and I did it or demanded I do things that land me in jail away from my kiddo and him to get me to "suffer",and I posted that to a thread here, People wouldn't be saying you are a slave because you were obedient and suffered for him. They'd be saying I was mentally ill for obeying. In fact the same people saying you need to prove ownership by getting her to do things she doesn't like or finds a hardship would be some of the loudest detractors from that position when it involved things that are -really- dreadful and the slave actually obeying those orders.

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ORIGINAL: angelic

Yep..  Step away from my coffee! ;)

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Again, it is one's definition of suffering.  You do things for your Master because He is your Master.  Yes they may be difficult, but there is an end to it and (most importantly) there is a reason for it.  Even if the reason is simply it will please him.  From what you have posted in the past, he is very secure in his ownership of you and does not need to prove it to himself or you.  

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i have difficulty with Owners that have to have tangible proof that they own their property.  And i willingly admit i cannot get my head wrapped around that concept as being anything more than insecurity.

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And to clarify an earlier post about how i think it starts in your heart and mind.  For me, it starts in my mind.  It is easier to get into my heart than it is to get into my head.  As an example, my former master is no longer in my heart.  He is, however, very much still in my head, now the thought process has changed from when he owned me, but he does indeed flit through my brain on a regular basis.  So the reverse is also true, it is easier for me to get 'you' out of my heart than it is my head. 

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Whatever works for you- but your way of suffering is no deeper than my way of not suffering.

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ORIGINAL: angelic
And as an aside, has anyone else noticed this thread has gone 9 or 10 pages and it has been relatively drama free!!!  (gads i hope i did not just jinx it) . 

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ORIGINAL: angelic

Actually, krya the OP does state in his 3rd paragraph he needs tangible evidence of his ownership.  "I  like knowing, in some real and objectvie way, that I actually do own my slave.  . . .  I like to share my slaves because it makes tangible the fact that they are property."  

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Wicked evil man!!! That is just purely ......... sadistic!

(imagine that)