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RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 12:58:53 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PAcpllooking

People who we didnt know just walked up and started touching, making comments etc. Which I found to be pretty disrepectful and when my slave sometimes had to almost run to hide behind me because some sub made a move to hug her needless to say they treated her badly afterward.

I have more than a little experience with groups in the states you mentioned. Each of them would consider the invasion of someone's private space as an egregious violation. Everyone knows that you never touch what you do not own, unless invited to do so.

I'd be curious which groups allowed this behavior. I'm also curious how you could have managed to find the bad apples with such regularity.

John

P.S. - It's quite common for folks to hug people they know, and to make others feel welcome. I sincerely hope you did not misconstrue anything like that.

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to PAcpllooking)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:01:08 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PAcpllooking

Yes there is an etiquette that should be followed.
If he is alone Dom to Dom its the typical handshake thing.
If he is with a sub::
First off do not extend a hand or attempt to touch or talk to another Doms Sub. Talk to the Dom and let his sub react to you. The sub may be under restrictions and you may get them introuble if you make such a gesture and she responds. In some cases even is you touch them without them letting you they can be in trouble.
Never communicate directly with his sub without permission
Respect how he treats his sub no matter how he does
Dont ask the sub for anything unless it is offered by the Dom
Respect the fact that the sub may not look you in the eye
Focus on the dynamic between them and respect it
Always err on the side of conservatisim when not sure how to interact with a Doms sub.
I have seen Doms bad mouth other Doms, hell I have been on the receiving side of that and your right it is highschool stuff and to me a sign of weakness. If he has to bad mouth someone in the hopes of bagging a sub then he must not be very secure.

It seems like today it is more a social event and everyone just hugs and kisses all over the place. My slave is under strict orders not to let anyone touch her or to look into another Doms eye unless I approve it. That also means other subs touching her also.

William

I do not doubt that somewhere there is a real time group that has these protocols. But I'm sure not aware of them.

So I'm curious as to where you got them?

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to PAcpllooking)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:01:53 PM

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: tr8nmyholes

Unfortunately, judging by their emails and behaviors, there are many dominant individuals here, who do not share your views.

First of all, you're committing the cardinal sin of judging all Dominants, or the lifestyle, based upon what you're exposed to at any online community (including Collarme).

Don't set yourself up for disappointment or the snickers of others. Get beyond the erotic fantasy novel quickly.

John

John!

Thank you for some very constructive and insightful feedback. First off, and not to become entangled in semantics, I did say that many dominant individuals here fit the described pattern. I did make it a point to stay away from a moronic generalization that never can apply in the real world.

Secondly, I am far from a blushing wallflower and certainly am not too good to earn public snickering or ridicule for pursuing some idealistic notions that I am unwilling to surrender and abandon. I also have left the fantasy novel behind the very night that I was gang-assaulted, -raped and -abused. And no, that was not part of an eleborately set up scene, but it was a brutal and beastialic abuse that left me fortunate to retain my life, my health, my sexual health and not pregnant.

But you are right - "the lifestyle does not make us anything, but we make the lifestyle" through our behaviors. And the moment, I am willing to give up my expectations of what a Dom/Master should be like, I have contributed to making the lifestyle something lesser instead of something better.

Kristen

(in reply to Rover)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:03:28 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PAcpllooking
Which I found to be pretty disrepectful and when my slave sometimes had to almost run to hide behind me because some sub made a move to hug her needless to say they treated her badly afterward.

You should teach her the same graceful moves that everyone in vanilla life knows when people try to get too touchy.

The vanilla version is- smile, reach out your hand firmly to show you want to shake their hand AND place some distance between you both, say "Sorry I prefer a handshake", and proceed as usual with the conversation.

Your slaves version is- smile, hold up your hand firmly to show you are not welcoming their advance, say "I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to touch casually but it's great to meet you" and proceed as usual with the conversation.

If your slave overreacts frequently, then she's going to get an overreaction in return. If she handles her special needs gracefully, and pleasantly, then she'll likely get the same sort of response.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PAcpllooking)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:06:48 PM

Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline

Who says there is to be "etiquette"among masters,If I am at a gathering with some asshole I find distasteful I am not going to shake his hand,in fact I will probally ignore him,after all I am not that easy to put up a front,If I don't like you then its oblivious so..bounty

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to tr8nmyholes)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:09:04 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: PAcpllooking

People who we didnt know just walked up and started touching, making comments etc. Which I found to be pretty disrepectful and when my slave sometimes had to almost run to hide behind me because some sub made a move to hug her needless to say they treated her badly afterward.

I have more than a little experience with groups in the states you mentioned. Each of them would consider the invasion of someone's private space as an egregious violation. Everyone knows that you never touch what you do not own, unless invited to do so.

I'd be curious which groups allowed this behavior. I'm also curious how you could have managed to find the bad apples with such regularity.

John

P.S. - It's quite common for folks to hug people they know, and to make others feel welcome. I sincerely hope you did not misconstrue anything like that.

I must confess that I am also curious. At the lifestyle events I've attended (save those that served beer and liquor) hugging isn't something you just do to people randomly. Personal space is respected and even if someone made a move to hug, it could be stopped by simply saying "I'm sorry but my owner limits physical contact with others". Also, this seems like something that could be easily avoided by asking questions of members before getting involved in the groups.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Rover)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:09:41 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tr8nmyholes

I also have left the fantasy novel behind the very night that I was gang-assaulted, -raped and -abused. And no, that was not part of an eleborately set up scene, but it was a brutal and beastialic abuse that left me fortunate to retain my life, my health, my sexual health and not pregnant.

I know more than a few Leather women (both submissives and Dominants) that have been raped. Not a single one of those rapes had anything to do with BDSM. I'm not saying that it never happens, just that it is exceptionally more likely to occur in vanilla settings than BDSM settings.

You weren't specific about your case, but seem to imply that your rape was BDSM related. Is that what you're saying? Was it reported to the police?

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to tr8nmyholes)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:14:41 PM

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline

Yes, it arose out of a simple BDSM gathering that alcoholically got derailed. It caused me to lose my rose-colored glasses of what I wanted BDSM to be and I chalked it up under the 'experience' column in life.

And no - the shame I perceived at the time of not only being raped, but the fear of facing the judgment of the authorities of "placing myself in harm's way and asking for it by dabbling with BDSM" - those things kept me from reporting the incident.

Oh my, how I have grown since then!

(in reply to Rover)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:19:19 PM

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: PAcpllooking
Which I found to be pretty disrepectful and when my slave sometimes had to almost run to hide behind me because some sub made a move to hug her needless to say they treated her badly afterward.

You should teach her the same graceful moves that everyone in vanilla life knows when people try to get too touchy.

The vanilla version is- smile, reach out your hand firmly to show you want to shake their hand AND place some distance between you both, say "Sorry I prefer a handshake", and proceed as usual with the conversation.

Your slaves version is- smile, hold up your hand firmly to show you are not welcoming their advance, say "I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to touch casually but it's great to meet you" and proceed as usual with the conversation.

If your slave overreacts frequently, then she's going to get an overreaction in return. If she handles her special needs gracefully, and pleasantly, then she'll likely get the same sort of response.

Excellent Advice.

_____________________________

"This aint a scene.. it's a god-damned arms race!" - Fall Out Boy

http://www.myspace.com/bellaemiliana

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:25:40 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tr8nmyholes

Yes, it arose out of a simple BDSM gathering that alcoholically got derailed. It caused me to lose my rose-colored glasses of what I wanted BDSM to be and I chalked it up under the 'experience' column in life.

What group was this, so that we might all be aware?

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to tr8nmyholes)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:29:03 PM

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Well bottom line is you cannot control how others act, only how you react to them and act yourself.
Wan to leave the "social circle" better than you found it, it simply a matter of choosing who you will and will not associate with. If a person's ethical standards don't match my own, I simply avoid them. When i find someone who's ethical standards match my own I make sure I keep in touch with them. Build the community you want by including those you wish to suround yourself with and excluding those you do not.

Want to make sure ettiquete is followed practice it yourself and watch as the people move into or out of your circle of freinds. Locally most people have learned to ask even though it is a much less formal protocol community than what I prefer.
They simply accept that if they are dealing with me or mine then that is the protocol.

(in reply to onegoodgirl)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:29:21 PM

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline

It was a group that was meeting in Denton, TX on the campus of the Texas Woman's University, back during my college days in the 90s.

(in reply to Rover)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:33:31 PM

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Want to make sure ettiquete is followed practice it yourself and watch as the people move into or out of your circle of freinds. Locally most people have learned to ask even though it is a much less formal protocol community than what I prefer.
They simply accept that if they are dealing with me or mine then that is the protocol.

Which brings me full-circle right back to my initial question: what IS consider proper etiquette and acceptable protocol on CM? Was this one stray from the group of ones that adhere to protocol? Or is CM an undesirable social circle that should leave behind (note: provocative tone intended on this question)?

(in reply to Archer)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:41:51 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tr8nmyholes

Which brings me full-circle right back to my initial question: what IS consider proper etiquette and acceptable protocol on CM?

Seriously, who cares? CM is a fantasy land, with little islands of reality. If it's your intention to live and socialize in fantasy land, then I suppose it matters. In the threads that comprise islands of reality, proper etiquette and acceptable protocol are common social courtesies.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to tr8nmyholes)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:42:09 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tr8nmyholes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Want to make sure ettiquete is followed practice it yourself and watch as the people move into or out of your circle of freinds. Locally most people have learned to ask even though it is a much less formal protocol community than what I prefer.
They simply accept that if they are dealing with me or mine then that is the protocol.

Which brings me full-circle right back to my initial question: what IS consider proper etiquette and acceptable protocol on CM? Was this one stray from the group of ones that adhere to protocol? Or is CM an undesirable social circle that should leave behind (note: provocative tone intended on this question)?

On CM? There really isn't any. You do what you are comfortable with, be polite and don't try to offend anyone. If someone gets their panties in a twist because you didn't address them the way they like you can either apologize and try to remember how they prefer in the future, or you can simply tell them "Sorry I don't do things that way". Because it's such a mass of different lifestyles, from the very loose protocols to the very strict and from bedroom kink to 24/7 Gor folks, I would venture to say it would be impossible to come up with a guideline for etiquette that would suit everyone on CM.

Edited for more blasted typos.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to tr8nmyholes)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:47:01 PM

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tr8nmyholes

In other words, you feel I am mistaken and driven by unrealistic, naive ideals when expecting a higher standard of principle and behavior from a Dominant individual in the lifestyle?

Bingo. If you only have standards for yourself you'll never be disappointed. No one can control what another does or says when the final blow comes down.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to tr8nmyholes)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 1:48:38 PM

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PAcpllooking

Yes there is an etiquette that should be followed.
If he is alone Dom to Dom its the typical handshake thing.
If he is with a sub::
First off do not extend a hand or attempt to touch or talk to another Doms Sub. Talk to the Dom and let his sub react to you. The sub may be under restrictions and you may get them introuble if you make such a gesture and she responds. In some cases even is you touch them without them letting you they can be in trouble.
Never communicate directly with his sub without permission
Respect how he treats his sub no matter how he does
Dont ask the sub for anything unless it is offered by the Dom
Respect the fact that the sub may not look you in the eye
Focus on the dynamic between them and respect it
Always err on the side of conservatisim when not sure how to interact with a Doms sub.
I have seen Doms bad mouth other Doms, hell I have been on the receiving side of that and your right it is highschool stuff and to me a sign of weakness. If he has to bad mouth someone in the hopes of bagging a sub then he must not be very secure.

It seems like today it is more a social event and everyone just hugs and kisses all over the place. My slave is under strict orders not to let anyone touch her or to look into another Doms eye unless I approve it. That also means other subs touching her also.

William

In your world, maybe...not in mine. How are we to read your mind day to day?

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to PAcpllooking)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 2:11:00 PM

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Do't know enough to say one way or the other could be it was an honest warning, could be it was aselfish act to try to keep you frommeeting anyone else. If it was an honest warning though the man should be able to back it up, lacking that the odds favor it being a selfish act. Certainly not unheard of either online or RT, but I think thr RT comunity has a few less of these (mostly due to the fact that eventually you could end up face to face with the person you bad mouthed and might have to defend your accusations). In any group large group of people you'll have people who are honorable, and people who are not.
Make an informed decission about who you spend (as in spending money) you time with. You'll naturally build a group of freinds who act honorably. Rather than assuming that everyone who is interested in BDSM has the same ethical standards make the effort to find those who share both your interest in BDSM and your ethical standards.

(in reply to earthycouple)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 2:13:40 PM

Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline

Sounds to me like a few people just need plexiotomies ie : insertion of plexiglass in their abdomens to they can still see when they have their head up their asses ... would make for a simplier world

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to Rover)

RE: "Etiquette" between Masters (?) - 7/24/2007 2:20:02 PM

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

In your world, maybe...not in mine. How are we to read your mind day to day?

Nope no mind reading nessisary you simply ask first and accept the answer.

Want to hug my girl ask, more often than not I'll permit it (but never assume permission automaticly).

If my slave does not "recognize you"/ answer your greeting assume there is a protocol reason rather than a personal one. If you have a question about it come ask me I'll be happy to fill you in.

However since you don't know nor have you consented to follow "my" protocol I will simply inform you of the parts you need to know when they arrise and then you get to choose follow it when dealing with me and mine, ask me to mdify it to make you more comfortable, or don't deal with me and mine.

Touching my slave is like touching my balls unless you know me really well you had better ask first, LOL.

(in reply to earthycouple)

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