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Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 12:20:20 AM

p0rnioke

Posts: 5
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline

I seek better understanding of the following subject from this (apparently) knowledgeable community. I had a somewhat rattling experience regarding my kink that I must share.

I met a seemingly level headed submissive who had expressed interest in ageplay and daddy-daughter roleplay - these are driving interests of my sexuality. Discussions about our explicit sexual interests revealed this: while my fetish extends into sex in the forms of consensual incest seduction scenes, coerceion scenes, as well as incestuous rape scenes, her interest in ageplay and daddy-daughter roleplay literally stopped at the bedroom door. She found such things "revolting", and suggested I needed professional help. She further implied that what I liked was contrary to ageplay - and that I was misrepresenting myself by such self-identification.

Needless to say, our meeting ended rather quickly.

Now, I am understanding of, and interested in, the more cerebral side of ageplay - but I hadn't thought that the term included only non-sexual age regression. To me the term is somewhat vague and encompassing.

Did I miss the latest textbook on the subject? Has there been some secret revision to the ISFI (international stadard fetish index). What is the distinction between age regression and ageplay?

Your comments are much appreciated. Your learned thoughts on the taxonomy of this, even more so.

Cheers,

p0rnioke

Post #: 1

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 2:41:15 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

No, you did not. And I think people make their own distinctions to suit their own relationships, as general as this answer to your question might be (sorry). Although I tend to think of age-regression as something deeper, and more ingrained in someone's psyche than "mere" age play, and personally, I tend to think it could be a symptom of someone who has a need for therapy, if it's a constant thing (no offense to anyone intended, truly), even then - if it "works" for two people involved, it's really none of my business. I guess I am not entirely sure what you mean by "age regression", though.

I haven't really heard or read of anyone in the BDSM world (though my experience is limited, but not severely) who has had a partner who age-played constantly, to a point I'd consider "regressive". By that I mean, they could function as an adult when they needed to do it, and had no trouble meeting adult responsibilites due to "age play" (like going to work, or housework, etc.).

While such things as you described might have turned off that particular submissive of yours, I've personally heard of plenty of people who engage in sexual age-play just like you've described above ("incestuous", or not). I personally see nothing wrong with engaging in such activities.

I mean, if that kind of age-play is "wrong", then what else in the BDSM world is "wrong"? Watersports? Fire-play? Bondage with your "Furries"?

If other people don't like it, then they simply don't have to do it themselves, in my humble opinion. - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/28/2007 3:05:01 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to p0rnioke)

Post #: 2

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 2:47:45 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: p0rnioke

I seek better understanding of the following subject from this (apparently) knowledgeable community. I had a somewhat rattling experience regarding my kink that I must share.

I met a seemingly level headed submissive who had expressed interest in ageplay and daddy-daughter roleplay - these are driving interests of my sexuality. Discussions about our explicit sexual interests revealed this: while my fetish extends into sex in the forms of consensual incest seduction scenes, coerceion scenes, as well as incestuous rape scenes, her interest in ageplay and daddy-daughter roleplay literally stopped at the bedroom door. She found such things "revolting", and suggested I needed professional help. She further implied that what I liked was contrary to ageplay - and that I was misrepresenting myself by such self-identification.

Needless to say, our meeting ended rather quickly.

Now, I am understanding of, and interested in, the more cerebral side of ageplay - but I hadn't thought that the term included only non-sexual age regression. To me the term is somewhat vague and encompassing.

Did I miss the latest textbook on the subject? Has there been some secret revision to the ISFI (international stadard fetish index). What is the distinction between age regression and ageplay?

Your comments are much appreciated. Your learned thoughts on the taxonomy of this, even more so.

Cheers,

p0rnioke

I agree with the woman you met with. Pretending to rape your own daughter...IS sick and disgusting...and i'm glad she RAN quickly .

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to p0rnioke)

Post #: 3

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 2:56:42 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Well okay, but then do people in "Daddy-daughter" relationships Ever get to have sex? No offense meant (really, I mean no disrespect, but this is a serious question), but I see plenty of these relationships around. Are they all into 24-7 Chastity?

Most of the folks I know who refer to their Masters as "Daddy", and-or who are in genuine "Daddy-daughter" relationships are having sex with them, too (at least from what I read on these CM boards). Are they all engaging in "incest", then?

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/28/2007 3:07:04 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 4

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 3:06:34 AM

callofzion

Posts: 33
Joined: 12/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I agree with the woman you met with. Pretending to rape your own daughter...IS sick and disgusting...and i'm glad she RAN quickly .

Actually, I think it's kind of hot. So ha! Some people think that throwing up on people is hot. Really, don't come to kink sites and pull that 'your kink isnt okay' shit. He's not REALLY raping a child. Or do you need that slowed down for you to understand that? Hell, I saw a thread yesterday where people were calmly discussing getting dogs to fuck them.

You're in the wrong place to get wound up about sick and disgusting acts, lady.

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 5

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 3:18:19 AM

SirAlden

Posts: 4
Joined: 7/17/2007
Status: offline

True babygirl/DaddyDom relationships have nothing to do with incest. If you look at the media, the idea of an innocent babydoll goes back through all history, Paris Hilton as aweful as she is a good example, the girls next door, Playboy in general promotes a sexuality through innocence as opposed to Penthouse with more over slutty sexuality. Some males are aroused visually by someone who is pretty and innocent, and some are aroused by overt streetwalker looks.

When I was younger, there was a babydoll singer Joey Heatherton, and I Dream of Jennie, as examples of BabyDolls.... Every imprint or fetish, is enjoying things that make your synapes, your brain light up! For a babygirl, maybe she was a daddys girl and loved to please, or the converse could be true, maybe as a young woman she never got the daddy attention that is normal and craves it now, because her real dad had died or was not present.
Spanking is an example of an imprint that was created genetically or in real life that arouses.

There are two types of babygirls that I have experienced... a babygirl who is aroused begin coy, and pouting, and when you ask her what age she is, she replies..."i love my daddy! and I am 46 years old."

The second type of babygirl regresses.... goes into trance or sub space, and feels a specific age or moves between different ages... one day 2-3 , next day 7, then a young teen say 13-14. This is just like a puppy girl who likes to transform, I have never looked at a female dog and wanted to have sex doggy style with her. But I love when a puppy girl is very aroused. It is that same thing for me with babygirls... I would never ever be aroused by a child, but a baby girl who is in sub space and very aroused lead to sexuality. I do not do dogs, I do not do children...lol but I do enjoy taking someone I care for into their imprints or fetish and when they are hyper aroused, when your partner is hyper aroused, you are aroused as well....

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 6

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 3:18:29 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: callofzion

quote:

I agree with the woman you met with. Pretending to rape your own daughter...IS sick and disgusting...and i'm glad she RAN quickly .

Actually, I think it's kind of hot. So ha! Some people think that throwing up on people is hot. Really, don't come to kink sites and pull that 'your kink isnt okay' shit. He's not REALLY raping a child. Or do you need that slowed down for you to understand that? Hell, I saw a thread yesterday where people were calmly discussing getting dogs to fuck them.

You're in the wrong place to get wound up about sick and disgusting acts, lady.

LMAO..... learn to read before you go on the attack there sparky......

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to callofzion)

Post #: 7

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 3:31:24 AM

NakedGirlScout

Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline

Age regression means that a person is either constantly, or upon a trigger, going to feel emotionally like a child, although physically and psychologically they're an adult. A lot of age-regressed people do not have control over their feeling like a child, and they may even try to suppress and deny it because it's uncomfortable for them. They will want the nurturing and protectiveness of a parental figure in their primary relationships. They may or may not want to literally be treated as a child at times, though they also need to be recognized for having adult capabilities in every other way. From what I've seen, and being one of these people, sexual play like incest is avoided like the plague, especially if the person regresses to a prepubescent age, which is almost always the case. Sex is kept to an adult state, even if the nurturing and protective aspects of the relationship are present 24/7 and even if the person is permanently age-regressed emotionally. (If this is still confusing, think of an age-regressed person having to work outside the home. They're going out as an adult, even if they feel like they're still a child inside and never really grew up. They don't want or need anyone to treat them as a child when doing adult activities.)

Age play is a broader term that can include age regression, but from what I've seen, it often means that a person wants to play out certain fetishes related to being a child, such as wearing diapers, being instructed by a schoolmaster/mistress, wearing childish clothes, eating age-appropriate foods like baby foods or drinking from bottles or sippy cups, sitting on Daddy's knee or being spanked by Daddy, etc. These people don't really regress to the emotional state of a child, they are playing out a scenario in which they take on the role of a child for a limited time. They're much more likely to be okay with incest fantasies, though it doesn't mean that every person involved in age play wants sex to be a part of it.

All of this is from my personal experience, I'm not quoting from any book or online lecture. Age-regressed people are often at odds with age players, because the former feel like a child in a more profound way than the latter, and can't or won't be comfortable with age fetish play. And, you can have people who overlap to some degree.

As with anything else, communication beyond labels is important between people. For example, just because you find someone who says they love bondage, doesn't mean they love to wear restrictive hoods. Or, if you find someone who says they love pain, it doesn't mean they necessarily love the pain from electroplay. You have to still find out what specific things are a turn on or a turn off for each person. It sounds like you did quickly find out in the case you posted about, but it sounds like she got a little upset about the idea and judgemental about others doing it, even if it wasn't for her. It's not "contrary to age play" in general; she just felt very strongly that it was contrary to her feelings about age play in particular. Though, keep in mind, incest play is a very common hard limit for people, who sometimes lump it under "pedo", and you'll need to be prepared to field some very unhappy replies to its being suggested.

P.S. to the OP:
I read your profile, and from what I've seen there it's abundantly clear that you are into daddy-girl SEX. Unless the girl you were speaking to never read your profile, or you've changed it since speaking to her, I don't see any reason why she should have been surprised at your mentioning that kind of play in conversation.

< Message edited by NakedGirlScout -- 7/28/2007 3:36:34 AM >

(in reply to p0rnioke)

Post #: 8

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 4:04:38 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout

Age regression means that a person is either constantly, or upon a trigger, going to feel emotionally like a child, although physically and psychologically they're an adult. A lot of age-regressed people do not have control over their feeling like a child, and they may even try to suppress and deny it because it's uncomfortable for them. They will want the nurturing and protectiveness of a parental figure in their primary relationships. They may or may not want to literally be treated as a child at times, though they also need to be recognized for having adult capabilities in every other way. From what I've seen, and being one of these people, sexual play like incest is avoided like the plague, especially if the person regresses to a prepubescent age, which is almost always the case. Sex is kept to an adult state, even if the nurturing and protective aspects of the relationship are present 24/7 and even if the person is permanently age-regressed emotionally. (If this is still confusing, think of an age-regressed person having to work outside the home. They're going out as an adult, even if they feel like they're still a child inside and never really grew up. They don't want or need anyone to treat them as a child when doing adult activities.)

Age play is a broader term that can include age regression, but from what I've seen, it often means that a person wants to play out certain fetishes related to being a child, such as wearing diapers, being instructed by a schoolmaster/mistress, wearing childish clothes, eating age-appropriate foods like baby foods or drinking from bottles or sippy cups, sitting on Daddy's knee or being spanked by Daddy, etc. These people don't really regress to the emotional state of a child, they are playing out a scenario in which they take on the role of a child for a limited time. They're much more likely to be okay with incest fantasies, though it doesn't mean that every person involved in age play wants sex to be a part of it.

All of this is from my personal experience, I'm not quoting from any book or online lecture. Age-regressed people are often at odds with age players, because the former feel like a child in a more profound way than the latter, and can't or won't be comfortable with age fetish play. And, you can have people who overlap to some degree.

As with anything else, communication beyond labels is important between people. For example, just because you find someone who says they love bondage, doesn't mean they love to wear restrictive hoods. Or, if you find someone who says they love pain, it doesn't mean they necessarily love the pain from electroplay. You have to still find out what specific things are a turn on or a turn off for each person. It sounds like you did quickly find out in the case you posted about, but it sounds like she got a little upset about the idea and judgemental about others doing it, even if it wasn't for her. It's not "contrary to age play" in general; she just felt very strongly that it was contrary to her feelings about age play in particular. Though, keep in mind, incest play is a very common hard limit for people, who sometimes lump it under "pedo", and you'll need to be prepared to field some very unhappy replies to its being suggested.

P.S. to the OP:
I read your profile, and from what I've seen there it's abundantly clear that you are into daddy-girl SEX. Unless the girl you were speaking to never read your profile, or you've changed it since speaking to her, I don't see any reason why she should have been surprised at your mentioning that kind of play in conversation.

Hey lady...i always enjoy reading your posts...there are well thought out and well written...thanks for your insight...i do appreicate it . How are you and your master doing by the way?.....i'll catch you on the other side...i hope......

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to NakedGirlScout)

Post #: 9

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 4:09:23 AM

raeanha

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline

I recently joined an age play site. Half the site encompasses erotic play, and the other half bans anything even mildly sexual, in deference to the varied ways people use age play and/or regression.

Some folks regress to a younger age because of abuse. They're using ageplay to go back to a safe place, before something horrible happened to them, or relive those days as a safe time. The cannot handle any sexuality in their age play whatsoever. They also have very specific definitions and rules to emphasise the fact that they are talking about the emotionally vulnerable innerchild that is part of an adult. .

(in reply to NakedGirlScout)

Post #: 10

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 4:10:31 AM

NakedGirlScout

Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline

hey Imthatache! We're doing great, the meds he got onto last month have turned everything around totally, and there've been no more problems at all! How are you and yours my friend? Write me already

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 11

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 4:50:30 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

While I don't share the OP's viewpoint, I can see where the misunderstanding is coming from.

Most of us have had rape fantasies; very few actually want to be raped. Most of us have had prison fantasies; very few of us want to go to prison. You name the non-consensual act, and I can point out 10 people who would love to play out the fantasy with someone they trust. So how is his different?

Yes, it is a taboo. But beyond that, it is no different than any of the many non-consensual fantasies we all harbour (except that it is borderline TOS-violating).

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to NakedGirlScout)

Post #: 12

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 5:59:05 AM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

Ok, there is a difference between Regressive and Sexual based age play...
see http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ageplay

When it comes to Sexual... Adolescent ageplay is the most commonly practiced!
Where people are acting out having sex with teenagers. Not small kids..

Some age players are in it for both. There are some little girls that simply
enjoy coloring books and crayons. Ever wish you could go back in time
and simply be a kid and leave the pressures of the adult world for awhile..and
escape? Well this mainly explains one of the common reasons behind
Regressive.

Generally Regressive Age players drop the Age play when they have Adult Sex..

The ingorance and stereotyping that people have regarding age play amazes me
to no end at times... LOL...

(in reply to p0rnioke)

Post #: 13

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 6:15:01 AM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline

For me, there are times that I feel sexual but revert to feelings of fear and mistrust. Who's a better protector than Daddy? It is a very satisfying experience to feel safe AND sexually gratified. I can feel very much like a babygirl and a woman at the same time, although I am sure it is difficult to imagine for someone who has never experienced it.

The level of trust, however, is paramount. This is not something I can do with someone who is just a play partner, or someone I don't know well. There are times that someone saying "Come sit on Daddy's lap" can irritate the shit out of me, like when I am just home from work and feeling rather dominant (and not vulnerable in the least).

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 14

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 6:20:43 AM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

quote:

ORIGINAL: callofzion
quote:

I agree with the woman you met with. Pretending to rape your own daughter...IS sick and disgusting...and i'm glad she RAN quickly .

Actually, I think it's kind of hot. So ha! Some people think that throwing up on people is hot. Really, don't come to kink sites and pull that 'your kink isnt okay' shit. He's not REALLY raping a child. Or do you need that slowed down for you to understand that? Hell, I saw a thread yesterday where people were calmly discussing getting dogs to fuck them. You're in the wrong place to get wound up about sick and disgusting acts, lady.

LMAO..... learn to read before you go on the attack there sparky......

Errr ... actually, ache, I sort of took it the same way zion did, although the words he(?) used to express it were rather inciteful (not that I'm not guilty of using inciteful language). No troll or flame intended but I was rather taken aback by your stance.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 15

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 6:28:32 AM

MasterMataeo

Posts: 215
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline

there is nothing wrong with the age play or the consensual act of role-ply or sex for that matter between two adults,, and what ever they decide to do,, their thoughts and feelings are just that thoughts and feelings,, and as long as no Crimes is committed then where lies the problem??
as for the lil sub who decided that she wanted to "play Daddy's little girl" one would think that she would have gotten to know the Dom a bit better,, and know what being a Daddy's Girl was all about and the fetish behind it,,
I'm currently in a p/t relationship with a young woman ,, whom is quite younger than me and enjoys the thought of me being her "Daddy" at times,, both in and out of the Bdrm,,,
now if we go into history ,, you will find several documented cases of fathers engaging in sex with their children < i would never> and even in some cases marrying them as well ,,as well as Mothers and thier sons,,,, the door goes both way here people.....
like all things in the BDSM world,, it is up to the individual to draw lines and respect those drawn by others,,
like I said before,, the two involved should have probably discussed things a bit further than they did before engaging in what they did,,
and to some it up Different Strokes for Different Folks,,
as long as no Crime is committed then no crime done,,
so live and learn and move on ,, taking with you the learning Exp of the day

MasterMataeo

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 16

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 6:42:04 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

quote:

ORIGINAL: p0rnioke

I seek better understanding of the following subject from this (apparently) knowledgeable community. I had a somewhat rattling experience regarding my kink that I must share.

I met a seemingly level headed submissive who had expressed interest in ageplay and daddy-daughter roleplay - these are driving interests of my sexuality. Discussions about our explicit sexual interests revealed this: while my fetish extends into sex in the forms of consensual incest seduction scenes, coerceion scenes, as well as incestuous rape scenes, her interest in ageplay and daddy-daughter roleplay literally stopped at the bedroom door. She found such things "revolting", and suggested I needed professional help. She further implied that what I liked was contrary to ageplay - and that I was misrepresenting myself by such self-identification.

Needless to say, our meeting ended rather quickly.

Now, I am understanding of, and interested in, the more cerebral side of ageplay - but I hadn't thought that the term included only non-sexual age regression. To me the term is somewhat vague and encompassing.

Did I miss the latest textbook on the subject? Has there been some secret revision to the ISFI (international stadard fetish index). What is the distinction between age regression and ageplay?

Your comments are much appreciated. Your learned thoughts on the taxonomy of this, even more so.

Cheers,

p0rnioke

I agree with the woman you met with. Pretending to rape your own daughter...IS sick and disgusting...and i'm glad she RAN quickly .

Actually, what's disgusting and sick is your hypocrisy. To a vanilla, what you like to do is sick and disgusting, but you would understand they are projecting their values and needs on you. And you are doing the exact same thing back. See, that's hypcritical.

YOU'RE A KINSKTER AT A KINK SITE--WAKE THE FUCK UP! Giving other people shit about their kinks is painfully stupid, hypocritical, and so monumentlaly intellectually inconsistent as to boggle the mind. Presumably you have something vaguely resembling a brain in that skull--use it.

And holy crap, can you even read? The OP didn't say he he had fantasies about raping his daughter, he said he wanted to role-play incest stuff with a woman who isn't is his daughter. Derrrrr. I mean, it's fucking English, presumably your native language. Do you have some kind of humiliation fetish where you show a complete inability to read and comprehend basic, 7th grade level English, and combine it with a repulsive need to judge other people's kinks but not your own? If so you scored a perfect ten, sparky.

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 17

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 6:46:28 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

Wow. Repressed rage can be explored through age play, you know....

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 18

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 7:32:24 AM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

Speaking about Age Play... has anybody ever noticed that not too many people are trying to take some Hot 18 year old Babe.. dress them up like thier 80 year old grand ma and bang the Hell out of 'em??

(in reply to p0rnioke)

Post #: 19

RE: Standard Fetish Index clarification request: ageplay - 7/28/2007 7:33:57 AM

Aine

Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Wow. Repressed rage can be explored through age play, you know....

Yours,

benji

No comment.

*giggles*

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 20

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