RE: America: Freedom to Fascism

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Owner59 -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 8:48:35 PM)
My understanding of the term Fascism , is not what this guy describes. The words Fascism and Fascist, are often mis-used.People throw them around and use those words as flame words.A few other names and words that are mis-used way to often.Nazi,dictator,tyrant.Some folks will use those words to describe someone or something ,they don`t like. Even if there`s no merit or truth in it. He should have used the phrase "freedom to financial slavery".But that`s not as sexy or as catchy ; ) BTW,we`ll never get out of paying,ever.The gov. has the law,the power,and guns to enforce taking their cut. When they take you to court,they piss off the juries by mentioning how much they pay in taxes,and what a bad guy you are for evading paying yours.It`s the ultimate triangulation. Don`t let anyone fool you about cutting taxes,like bush. Someone cutting taxes,is only deferring them,and that brings an interest charge,which is in fact,a tax increase. Question,... Assuming we have to pay for the "commons"(roads,bridges,dams,courts,infrastructure,army,navy,airforce,rangers,boarder guards,ect),...How do we get the money?It has to come from somewhere. What`s the fairest and best way to collect money to pay for the commons?

subfever -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 8:50:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger ...This topic has been discussed /re-hashed here many many times - So you'll see no long drawn-out posts or rebuttals from me. I will simply re-post in the quote box a brilliant post by my friend Subfever that addresses my basic theory /viewpoint as it relates to various alternative scenarios. I STRONGLY emphasize the last paragraph. - R UR, I tried sending you a message on the other side to thank you for your kind words, not realizing your profile is turned off. Many thanks, my friend. subfever

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 8:52:13 PM)
you know it is like this you really do not have to live here i am sure Venezuela will have you

Real0ne -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 8:59:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf So how do the rules on the I-9 apply? http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=0572194d3e88d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=91919c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD Orion quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati Actually...a business does NOT have to verify the SSN, most companies just are under the impression they do. And what I find interesting, is not that its voluntary, but that once you are an adult and can make your own choices about SS and whatnot, your parents already made the decision for you. yup its entrapment, they use prima facia to nail you if you try to fight it as an adult. agreed same thing i say to lucky, that is instructions with lots of big MUSTS, b-u-t where is the law? Can the immigration service write "law"?

Real0ne -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 9:01:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati Actually...a business does NOT have to verify the SSN, most companies just are under the impression they do. And what I find interesting, is not that its voluntary, but that once you are an adult and can make your own choices about SS and whatnot, your parents already made the decision for you. Gihtaamati: There was a recent supreme court ruling concerning the S/S tax. It was about a sheriff in Santa Barbara county who felt that the S/S number was the "mark of the Devil" and so forth....The court ruled that he did not need to have a S/S number. Now this begs the following questions. First: Does he get all of his money back with interest from S/S? Second: Since your S/S number is your taxpayer ID number how does one file their income tax? thompson haha! There was no income tax as we know it now. It evolved into it as people acquiesced their rights. Let me put it this way. Yeh ok there was income tax. income = corporate profits. There was no wage tax. wages != income. in law a big difference. now i did not look up to see how long they had corporate ids. this is worth a looksie as he does have testimony from a couple constutional attorneys. They trimmed it a bit since i seen the first rendition of it. Its worth it just for the part about how they destroyed joe lewis, a great american, and how well he goes over the details about the value of our money. There are ways to do both but legally its like walking on eggs to do it. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173& oh yeh and he has ron paul on there in several places interviewing him too Go RON!

Real0ne -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 9:04:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sappatoti Instead of an individual SSN, you could set yourself up as a corporation and get an Employer Identification Number (EIN). As far as phone service goes, it's not necessarily the cheapest way to do this but you can get prepaid wired and cell services. They don't ask for SSNs. <edited for clarity> If you are a corporation then "income tax" is 500% constitutional!

Real0ne -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 9:10:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsBearlee quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne keep in mind the purpose of a licenxse is a special dispensation to do what is otherwise illegal. (nope it was more corect the way i said it the first time) Much like gun control, we have the inalinable right to arm ourselves, thus a license or special dispensation is an infringemtn. We also have the right to travel on any public roadways therefore none required there either. Its all a prop to "control" which is vastly different from regulate. K...but isn't a driver's license a document that says you know how to drive a vehicle? It is not permission to travel public roadways; you can do that even without a driver's license. At least that is how I understand it, B Like most things the government does it serves a dual purpose. It is for control. Here in wisconsin they will pull your drivers lic if you have unpaid parking tickets. you cannot travel on a free way with a horse thus your right to travel has been infringed/seriously compromised or even removed. Will the government replace your car for a horse? Its institutionalized fraud.

Real0ne -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 9:28:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 My understanding of the term Fascism , is not what this guy describes. The words Fascism and Fascist, are often mis-used.People throw them around and use those words as flame words.A few other names and words that are mis-used way to often.Nazi,dictator,tyrant.Some folks will use those words to describe someone or something ,they don`t like. Even if there`s no merit or truth in it. He should have used the phrase "freedom to financial slavery".But that`s not as sexy or as catchy ; ) BTW,we`ll never get out of paying,ever.The gov. has the law,the power,and guns to enforce taking their cut. When they take you to court,they piss off the juries by mentioning how much they pay in taxes,and what a bad guy you are for evading paying yours.It`s the ultimate triangulation. Don`t let anyone fool you about cutting taxes,like bush. Someone cutting taxes,is only deferring them,and that brings an interest charge,which is in fact,a tax increase. Question,... Assuming we have to pay for the "commons"(roads,bridges,dams,courts,infrastructure,army,navy,airforce,rangers,boarder guards,ect),...How do we get the money?It has to come from somewhere. What`s the fairest and best way to collect money to pay for the commons? State taxes pay for hiways, gaurds, infrastructure and supposed to pay for the citizens militia. In wisconsin for instance they charge you unnapportioned direct taxes. If you have no children you will still pay taxes for schools. Another one is that in wisconsin it is in the wisconsin state constitution that all lands are alodial. Therefore no one should be charged taxes on buildings but they do! i am involved in the city and the fraud is on my doorstep. It is just so common now it is the norm because people are both so ignorant and also they would rather pay the extortionist than fight them. their will is beaten in the ground. Corporations are to pay for the "standing army" and wars. Fascism is the combination of corporate and state and finally the as a result of this marriage the people become servants to the government instead of the other way around. agreed cutting taxes is nothing more than redistribution, the other guy pays more for a while

cyberdude611 -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 9:30:22 PM)
Most people do not understand what fascism is. It's gets thrown around a lot as a politically-loaded term but most people don't know what it is. Now I am concerned over eroding freedoms. And no one seems to like the first amendment. The right wants to shut everyone up they don't like. The left wants to shut everyone up they don't agree with. But we are still quite far away from actual "fascism."

Real0ne -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 9:36:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Ghitaamati: Even though the supreme court has ruled that one does not need a S/S number try to open a bank account without one or even try to get phone service with out it. When I tried it the phone company simply said if you do not want to give it to us that is just fine but until you do you will not get a phone line. This was after I went through about twelve layers of managers and supervisors. Essentially; "we are the phone company and if you don't like how we do business go fuck your self" thompson the banking and current tax system are intricately tied together. it seems to me they came into existance almost at the same time. Its unlawfully legalized extortion. Same shit the mafia did on a governmental scale. That little 7 minute vid at the bottom in the footer is really kool. i think its sad when they have to literally take the fantasy out of sci fi and get real to get a point across LOL but its getting bad when they have to go that far imo.

thompsonx -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 9:37:07 PM)
o quote: ORIGINAL: sappatoti Instead of an individual SSN, you could set yourself up as a corporation and get an Employer Identification Number (EIN). As far as phone service goes, it's not necessarily the cheapest way to do this but you can get prepaid wired and cell services. They don't ask for SSNs. <edited for clarity> Sappatoti: If you work for wages I don't think you qualify to be a corporation. You are right the pre-paid and throw away phones are way more expensive than a standard hard line. thompson

Real0ne -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 9:51:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Most people do not understand what fascism is. It's gets thrown around a lot as a politically-loaded term but most people don't know what it is. Now I am concerned over eroding freedoms. And no one seems to like the first amendment. The right wants to shut everyone up they don't like. The left wants to shut everyone up they don't agree with. But we are still quite far away from actual "fascism." What you say is a contradiction in terms. you cannot lose your rights to the combination of corporation and government and say what you did. The federal reserve is a corporation, likewise is the irs. woudl you want microsoft breaking down your doors to conviscate you stuff? There is not "hard core" line for any system and likewise with fascism when it gets right down to it, it winds up being a bit blurry, as we also have adopted the 10 planks of communism. So things get a bit bluirry but the pivotal issue is that we are in fact losing our rights. That is the key to knowing. When a judge orders litigants to testify against themselves? One judge in the shiff case threw out the supreme court case law and said he did not care. We have government in bed with business, (hallibuton) etc. Call it what we will we are sort of getting fucked and the next tradgety this country is in a position to go into a full dictator mode. If you have done the amount of research on the actual law that i have as the laws stand today. fema is meant to take over towns etc for pete sake, the county sherrif is on video record stating that fema cut the local police communications wires and screwed up their equipment during the katrina debacle. but they will do it better next time, they wont get caught. Combine that withhomeland security buying many cities armored cars complete with turrets. stick the militia up our butts. The forefathers wanted a citizens militia that was large enough and powerful enough to over take any government forcible oppression. Well i think it goes without saying we are already out gunned,. and how do you make a dictator? just wave a flag and trust that big botha knows best, fight those ikadas attitude without accountability. anyone go to jail over iraq? they all forgive each other. diplomatic imunity! who was that eastwood? lol

sappatoti -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 10:04:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx o quote: ORIGINAL: sappatoti Instead of an individual SSN, you could set yourself up as a corporation and get an Employer Identification Number (EIN). Sappatoti: If you work for wages I don't think you qualify to be a corporation. I didn't say it would be easy. [;)] I just took a peek at how one goes about setting up a corporation in Florida. After deciding which type of corporation is best for the purpose, the documents appropriate for the selected type of corporation are completed and the filing fee is paid. For a standard corporation (I don't know about the "S" or limited type; didn't look those up), the info needed is the desired corporate name (usually a dba), the purpose/mission statement explaining what the general business will be offering, the location for the headquarters, the names and contact info for the officers, how many shares of stock will be available, who's handling the sales of the shares, and the name of the incorporator. Simple, no? [;)] After that's all done, then the other sets of documents need to be completed (for the Federal EIN and if necessary, a state tax number used to collect state and local taxes) as well as obtaining the licenses necessary to carry out the business of the corporation. And it's possible that the filling out of forms doesn't stop there, but it's late (or early, as the case may be) and I was losing focus within the state's web site. [:)] While it is possible to create a corporation and use its EIN instead of an individual's SSN, it isn't really practical for the average wage earner.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 10:06:18 PM)
you should see some of the new uk laws that are comming into effect and one bill that is going to hit parlament about bdsm oh yeah you think we have it bad NOT

Real0ne -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 10:28:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 you should see some of the new uk laws that are comming into effect and one bill that is going to hit parlament about bdsm oh yeah you think we have it bad NOT yah well the us government is fundamentally chartered to enforce the will of the people, but its just the opposite. Which is not to put the blame entirely on the government because due to our complacency and cowardice they are that way. much like a naughty kid they will terrorize the neighbor, (just because they can), if they knoiw they can get away with it and that is exactly what is happeneing here with the government. People are fearful i talk with peeps on the street and the more incriminating the evidence you bring to bear against the government in a conversation the more they start looking over their shoulders to see who is listening. we are basically hostages. i have some friends that cut conversations off over the phone about the governemnt if it gets too deep. is that frredom? some people would say it is.

Real0ne -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/1/2007 10:36:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sappatoti While it is possible to create a corporation and use its EIN instead of an individual's SSN, it isn't really practical for the average wage earner. just a side note here.... you are still a wage earner as a dba sole proprietor, and as a sole proprietor the only reason you need your ssn in this state is so you can get your sales number which is used by other companies to identiy you as a legitimate business and to pass on sales tax to the customer instead of paying it upon the sale. otherwise no discounts, you pay what every one else does. then you fill out your sales tax exmptiojn forms. its like the woman in russos skit said its sort of inbetween taxation there are no lines anymore many taxes are in between.

luckydog1 -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/2/2007 12:21:56 AM)
real, exactly where in the constitution does it draw a distinction between corporations, privately owned companies, and laborers? Simply citing the article and section will be enough.

luckydog1 -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/2/2007 12:23:11 AM)
If anyone is curious to take a look, this page lists just about every tax protestor argument there is, and the court cases and laws that show why it is nonsense http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#law

GhitaAmati -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/2/2007 5:35:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Ghitaamati: Even though the supreme court has ruled that one does not need a S/S number try to open a bank account without one or even try to get phone service with out it. When I tried it the phone company simply said if you do not want to give it to us that is just fine but until you do you will not get a phone line. This was after I went through about twelve layers of managers and supervisors. Essentially; "we are the phone company and if you don't like how we do business go fuck your self" thompson Right, but having a bank account or a phone isnt a "right" nor is it even a nessecity...And its compleatly possible to get a prepaid phone or cell without a SSN. I dont know any businesses around here who dont still take cash, and you can use your cash to get money orders if you HAVE to send a check or such through the mail. Hell, when I went to buy my van last year, after test driving three and finally making a decision on a brand new nissan quest, the sales guy started asking me questions about my credit, I told him he didnt need that information. In this really sarcastic tone he asks, "what are you gonna do, pay cash?" I said "as a matter of fact I am", he had to actually go and get approval from his manager to accept 25k in cash. I was fucking shocked, almost took my business to another dealer.

GhitaAmati -> RE: America: Freedom to Fascism (8/2/2007 5:39:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sappatoti Instead of an individual SSN, you could set yourself up as a corporation and get an Employer Identification Number (EIN). But once you are a corp, taxation is compleatly constitutional. We were discussing personal taxation. Next point though, you dont actually HAVE to incorporate to run a business, nor do you have to fill out all those silly papers about your employees, its possible to hire everyone as a sub-contractor, then its their own responsibilty to take care of their taxes how ever they see fit. You dont have to work for a corporation either, you can make just as much money working for a non-incorporated business, and get paid as an individual, cash, no W4s, no nothing. Its not a requirement that you go work for bigbusiness, if you want to though, then you have to follow their rules, who you choose to work for though isnt a right, its your privelege to choose your employer.

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