does a swtich always try to top from the bottom?

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does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/2/2007 10:26:33 PM

AMADF

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After reading some post in this forum i kind of undestand more and thank you for it.

Personally i respect switchs as any bdsm player, actually my best bdsm friend is switch :) but i dont play with them. The main reason is that in the few session i have with them, they always try to top from the bottom.

Sometimes i think they are not really aware of it, but kind of "overtry" to please or impress or suprise dom: for instance i ask him to go to bathroom and wear a vibrating plug and he comes with plug but back already nacked, or things like they hear the cane and then they assume certain position, wich they think its better to do it. In that moment i think: I didnt ask to bend i just want you to stand there and listen the cane.

I mean its fine when a sub does already "reads" you and obviously signals get more easy to read when play long with same parthner but i always find myself kind of tired after playing with switchs in the sense that i have to remind them that they dont need to "think" or "predict" my moves: im the one who gives the orders and I make sure they dont forget this.

The sessions where ok, but i always had this kind of emotion like trying to say "dont think for yourself, let me as mistress choose what i want, youre now a slave not the master". I dont say its bad a slave suggest thigs but i definetly preffear the feedback that always have after a session instead of simply doing it in a session.

This is something i havent feel when play with subs, even with experimented ones, . So this experiences make me stop playing with them, but i was wondering: do all switches do this things or maybe i just found some of them who where a little "messy" when reiceiving orders?

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/3/2007 5:52:11 AM

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Yep.... every single one of them, always.

Next question?

(in reply to AMADF)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/3/2007 7:48:55 AM

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LOL @ Alumbrado

It would be very inappropriate for my partner or I to try to subvert the position of the other when it's not obviously just for fun or to teach the other.

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RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/3/2007 7:54:06 AM

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I'm sorry...I distinctly heard someone yell 'Pull!!' and then there was this target moving across the sky... instincts just sorta kicked in...

Now, seriously, I am sure that it does happen that a switch attempts to work both ends of the crop on occasion...

Perhaps if the role is new to either partner?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/3/2007 8:00:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
Perhaps if the role is new to either partner?

Pretty much the same reason it happens in non switches I think, yeah.

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RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/3/2007 5:12:04 PM

Phin

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short answer: no

Long answer, I would not bend over at the sound of a cane, I do not know where to expect the hit. I have seen subs make assumptions about what the dom is going to do.

easy way to fix the assumptions, hit them somehere else

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/3/2007 7:36:59 PM

Elea

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Personally I find it impossible to 'switch' mindsets mid-scene, but I still have issues coming to terms with myself as a 'switch' anyways.

The point is, if you think they are 'topping from the bottom', then it is YOUR job to assert yourself as the top. If you want them to learn how to follow your cues then its best you establish both your position in the relationship (even if its only temporary) and assert your authority.

If you let them get away with whatever they want to do while you are on 'top', then honestly - you're still letting them be in control, and I think you're looking to be in a dominant position, which you are failing to fill appropriately.

Also, have you tried communicating about this with them ...? I find that a majority of miscommunications and mis-apprehensions as well as misconstrued acts and intentions are cleared up relatively well when people actually sit down and discuss things instead of assuming they know exactly what is going on.

So, my advice is to follow the second part of my post first... If that makes any sort of sense, which it probably doesn't, and that's ok too.

*smirk*

~Elea

< Message edited by Elea -- 8/3/2007 8:01:55 PM >

(in reply to Phin)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/3/2007 9:05:42 PM

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I really don't think that is a switch thing. If you want them to just stand there, tell them that. Some dominants want the subs/slaves/switches to do exactly what you described and unless you tell them differently, they are going to do what has gotten them positive results in the past.

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(in reply to AMADF)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/4/2007 11:32:40 AM

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Some switches want to participate in the direction of the scene, either fully or with cooperation. So do some people who only bottom. Some people who identify as submissives like to anticipate desires, which is one way of reading what you're describing, and some dominants like that. It can be efficient.

It sounds like *you* don't like it, though--it seems like when topping/dominating, you want your playmate to be passive, doing precisely what you ask but no more and no less, and not offering input. That's fine, too. You might want to express this a little more clearly when you negotiate with people--it's not necessarily that your playmates are not being submissive, but it seems that they're not being submissive in precisely the way you want, and it might go better if you expressed precisely the kind of behavior you want ahead of time.

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RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/4/2007 3:21:17 PM

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In short: No.

Different people play in different ways, if you want to insure your bottom (whether they be a slave, sub, bottom or switch) behaves in exactly the way you tell them to, only when you tell them to, that's something that you should communicate when you're negotiating the scene.

Some tops want their bottom to anticipate, some don't. I don't think it's specifically a switch trait to not be pychic.

(in reply to AMADF)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/4/2007 3:46:39 PM

Drifa

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So what exactly DOES constitute topping from the bottom? I certainly have been known to beg for things, especially at intense moments. This does not mean that I get what I am begging for, of course. And judging by the reaction I get from my Lady, my begging is part of her fun!

If there is something I need to discuss I save that for later. Unless it's an injury issue and I'd stop the action right then.

But in discussion afterwards is where we figure out whether new things are working for us both, if a given position is too distracting, if a particular flogger is too stingy for early in the process, or what have you. And even then, it's give and take... and my Lady may choose to ignore my requests there also, though that is rare.

(in reply to AMADF)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/4/2007 9:13:32 PM

arayofsunshine55

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I like a partner who is involved. Who isn't afraid to act. I can handle it and it doesn't threaten me. Hell if I don't like it I can assert myself and my desires. And I have had submissive men think and act. I like it. I know when Daddy fists me he likes me to suck his Cock or his nipples. Doing so works for him. He likes not having to tell me every single thing. That would not work for us. I think that is about the dynamic we like rather than a more narrow definition of roles.

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Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to AMADF)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/4/2007 11:25:06 PM

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Some of us switches have learned to be anticipatory in our services to a Dominate. Is it this you are describing? I serve as a slave in an M/s dynamic, and my Master likes it when I top other people. But I always remember my place with Her when I am through.

Also, it is how a person "suggests" things. It is coming from a place of respect like "Sir" or "Ma'am" if I may suggest..." Or is it coming from a more authortative voice such as, "I like this, why don't we try it...", or "A foot massage would really relax you, wouldn't it." And then dropping to the feet and rubbing them without a response from you.

It's about showing respect and delineating tones. A good Top will be able to discern which way the bottom switch is acting. If it is bad behavior, point it out and punish it, if it's anticipatory, good behavior, reward it!

(in reply to AMADF)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/5/2007 10:22:30 AM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveDaddy

Some of us switches have learned to be anticipatory in our services to a Dominate. Is it this you are describing?

I don't think that's what she was asking, especially since such anticipatory skills are hardly reserved for switches.

~stef

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RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/5/2007 10:28:18 AM

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Never say never, or always, either.

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This one, as well!

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RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/5/2007 1:44:46 PM

AMADF

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Thanks for your reply all :)

After reading them i kind of realize it might also be my style of dominantion that has an impact in this issue. This maybe became on the first place from expectations. I sincery in the beggining expected that playing with a switch would be super cool, maybe even better that playing with a sub, after all he is also a master and of course would know exactly what a master expect from subs, but in my experience instead of a docil sub i got kind of "rebel" one. I like a lot to watch spankers :) but they always kind of play this game of rebel gril/boy thats lovely to watch, but personally i wont play: i like when a sub surrender to you by his own will and not after being "chased" or "convinced".

I have live some years in europe where i play a lot, played with some americans and of course mexicans, where curretly live, and no matter the country, i found myself feeling this weird sensation with switches, that i dont feel with plain subs, man or female.

After a session i always feel good :) but hate to spend time of session stablishing who´s the dom, i think this is a waist of time since i do preffear spending this time in "reading" and undertanding´little sings in my parthers body since i like heavy play. So i pay a lot pf attention to signs of extreme pain, and think that this thing of stablishing authority thing "distract" me and consider it waist of time.

So i have realice maybe this is my style of domination, cause i realice i like to have my fully attention to play hard and not establishing whos the boss. So maybe the difference its that subs that i normally play with, are arelly exprienced masoquist, who love pain more than participate on scene with ideas while switches eventhough were experienced they were not as experimented as maso players i normally choose.

So maybe this impression i have from switchs has also to do whith i personally expect from subs. And of course i choose subs that have diffent level of experince from the switchs, they will be a difference!!

Thank you all for helping to have a better undertanding of myself :D

PD Does anyone know why below my nick say "vanilla" :( How do i change that?

(in reply to MsBearlee)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/5/2007 2:39:24 PM

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Keep posting.. it will change the 'vanilla' nick, and it is good to hear your point of view.

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RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/5/2007 3:42:21 PM

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When I bottom I just do as I'm told.

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RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/5/2007 4:14:56 PM

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That was phrased poorly. As a slave, I learned to be anticipatory with Master. I bring that into a scene when I play with other people. Maybe the anticipatory service is something Tops percieve as pushy bottom behavior from a switch. (?)

(in reply to MsBearlee)

RE: does a swtich always try to top from the bottom? - 8/5/2007 4:27:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveDaddy
That was phrased poorly. As a slave, I learned to be anticipatory with Master. I bring that into a scene when I play with other people. Maybe the anticipatory service is something Tops percieve as pushy bottom behavior from a switch. (?)

Maybe. But as all of this thread has shown- it's a really bad mistake to ASSUME that anyone will behave in any way because of their orientation. Or that being a dominant will really mean anything about being a submissive. It really is a completely different orientation.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to slaveDaddy)

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