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RE: a Dark Day for kinksters - 8/7/2007 9:20:46 AM

instynctive

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lonlyross,

It has nothing to do with the community.

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RE: a Dark Day for kinksters - 8/7/2007 9:26:47 AM

DommeMaggie

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You are correct. In 2005, the Federal Laws were re-written to target those in the D/s S/m lifestyle much like the Gays were targeted years before. Though the Laws are written somewhat ambiguously, Subject to interpretation by police. As well, it brought in the FBI sting operations to work independently of your local Vice Squads.Many forms of play are now considered ILLEGAL, period. These laws can effect even PRIVATE Play. A Doctor or care provider MUST report any marks that he/she/they consider abuse to the authorities, immediately. Trust me, some one will be on the phone calling while you are being given care for whatever purpose you were at the Dr. for. What we teach and tell people in my area is this, if you do have a regular Dr. be sure to mention to him you play consensually in the alternative lifestyle. They will be more accepting of it, if you tell them BEFORE you have marks. Though it seems far reaching for many of you to conceive, make sure you have a signed notarized statement from your play partner, giving consent. This protects both parties now and in the future. There is a case now before the courts where a female slave left her Master of several years. she filed abuse against him.The lawyers of course have thrown in everything they can possibly think of. Kidnapping, sexual assault, slavery, torture, to name a few. If anyone has the link to this case, kindly post it, so everyone can read it. Just be aware that your selected lifestyle, though private and consensual, does come under the law. http://www.ncsfreedom.org/media/update/index.htm

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RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 9:39:35 AM

earthycouple

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Did you know if you goto the Dr and they see marks they will automatically report it in some states it is a law the have to..

Where? and under what contexts?

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RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 10:08:28 AM

MistressCass

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Did you know if you goto the Dr and they see marks they will automatically report it in some states it is a law the have to..

Did you know that that law is for the under 18 set.......not for adults who can press charges in abuse cases without intervention from outside sources. Now a doctor *might* call in a social worker to talk to the person they suspect is abused.....but in most cases they will ignore most bruising, it's none of their business unless the ADULT patient wishes to discuss it. And most doctors are too busy to take the time it takes to get an abused woman help.....Different circumstances if in an ER setting where social workers are readily available.....but you did say "if you go to a doctor", not an "ER". I would like to see the source of your information LatexBaby64, cuz I do think it is not true in almost all cases, if the person in question is over age 18 and of sound mind (things blur when mentally defiecient, regardless of age) *bites tongue on rest of thought*

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RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 11:04:02 AM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Did you know if you goto the Dr and they see marks they will automatically report it in some states it is a law the have to..

Only in the case of "vulnerable populations," such as minors, adults with mental disabilities and elder adults. It does not apply to adults in general.

~stef

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Post #: 45

RE: a Dark Day for kinksters - 8/7/2007 11:57:26 AM

SimplyMichael

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DommeMaggie,

quote:

Many forms of play are now considered ILLEGAL, period. These laws can effect even PRIVATE Play.

You have to back up a statement like that as it isn't true in california and I can't imagine is all that true elsewhere.

Can an overzealous DA fuck with you? Always. Will he get a conviction or even get the case into court? Not often.

So, please back up that claim or recant it.

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Post #: 46

RE: a Dark Day for kinksters - 8/7/2007 1:30:34 PM

BossyShoeBitch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubinMaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterMike04103

The artical I was looking to post spoke to the affect that in my state it was going to be so that ANYONE could report you for DV and in my state, when the police are called for DV SOMEONE is going out in cuffs, no questions asked.

Incorrect.

Just a few short days ago, Sir and i were scening and, well, let's just say *i* got a tad louder than usual with a window open in the room. Embarassing? Oh yes it was, but *shrug* it happens sometimes.

Someone called the cops. They showed up at the house. NO ONE left in cuffs. It was very clear to them that there was not domestic violence going on.

Some may try to make it seem that WIIWD is domestic violence, but that doesn't mean the written laws will view it in that light.

Besides, think about it....You're watching a "scary" movie...someone's screaming in the movie...someone (a neighbor) calls the cops thinking you're murdering your girl, they show up...do you REALLY think they're hauling your ass to jail for watching a dvd?

Signing the domestic violence bill is the ONLY thing Baldacci has done positive for this state.

Just my experience and my opinion, as usual.

(**panting**)
Did you blog about it yet?

(**impatient as usual, BSB runs to check...)

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Post #: 47

RE: a Dark Day for kinksters - 8/7/2007 1:39:32 PM

SubinMaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

(**panting**)
Did you blog about it yet?

(**impatient as usual, BSB runs to check...)

You are too damn funny *smile* No, no blog about it *yet*...it WAS rather embarassing so i had to come to terms with it while Sir just thought it was hysterical

....however it will be blogged soon...and it'll probably end up being more funny than anything else

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Post #: 48

RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 1:44:22 PM

LATEXBABY64

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Did you know if you goto the Dr and they see marks they will automatically report it in some states it is a law the have to..

Only in the case of "vulnerable populations," such as minors, adults with mental disabilities and elder adults. It does not apply to adults in general.

~stef

um what is this then

http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title12/ar10/ch3.html

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Post #: 49

RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 1:48:20 PM

earthycouple

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Did you know if you goto the Dr and they see marks they will automatically report it in some states it is a law the have to..

Only in the case of "vulnerable populations," such as minors, adults with mental disabilities and elder adults. It does not apply to adults in general.

~stef

um what is this then

http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title12/ar10/ch3.html

This is copy and pasted right out of YOUR link:

"incapable by reason of mental illness, mental retardation, dementia, habitual drunkenness, excessive use of drugs, or other physical or mental incapacity of managing or directing the management of the individual's property or providing or directing the provision of self-care; and
       (3) harmed or threatened with harm as a result of:
           (A) neglect;
           (B) battery; or
           (C) exploitation of the individual's personal services or property."

which is what we all said.

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RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 1:54:33 PM

SubinMaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

um what is this then

http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title12/ar10/ch3.html

quote:

IC 12-10-3-2
"Endangered adult" defined
     Sec. 2. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), as used in this chapter, "endangered adult" means an individual who is:
        (1) at least eighteen (18) years of age;
        (2) incapable by reason of mental illness, mental retardation, dementia, habitual drunkenness, excessive use of drugs, or other physical or mental incapacity of managing or directing the management of the individual's property or providing or directing the provision of self-care; and
        (3) harmed or threatened with harm as a result of:
            (A) neglect;
            (B) battery; or
            (C) exploitation of the individual's personal services or property.
    (b) For purposes of IC 12-10-3-17, IC 35-42-2-1, and IC 35-46-1-13, "endangered adult" means an individual who is:
        (1) at least eighteen (18) years of age;
        (2) incapable by reason of mental illness, mental retardation, dementia, or other physical or mental incapacity of managing or directing the management of the individual's property or providing or directing the provision of self-care; and
        (3) harmed or threatened with harm as a result of:
            (A) neglect; or
            (B) battery.
    (c) An individual is not an endangered adult solely:
        (1) for the reason that the individual is being provided spiritual treatment in accordance with a recognized religious method of healing instead of specified medical treatment if the individual would not be considered to be an endangered adult if the individual were receiving the medical treatment; or
        (2) on the basis of being physically unable to provide self care when appropriate care is being provided.

That definition pretty much sums up that it is applicable to adults over the age of 18 who lack the physical/mental capacity to think/act/speak on their own behalf regarding their welfare. This falls right in line with Stef's comment about it pertaining to the "vulnerable population" (minors and adults with mental disabilities).

If you are of sound mind and body, and not a minor, it does not apply to you.

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RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 2:18:30 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

um what is this then

http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title12/ar10/ch3.html

It appears to be a link to content that you either didn't bother to read or just lack the intellectual wherewithall to understand. I'll leave it to the peanut gallery to decide which is more likely, based upon your previous posts.

~stef

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Post #: 52

RE: a Dark Day for kinksters - 8/7/2007 2:21:50 PM

DommeMaggie

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quote:

You have to back up a statement like that as it isn't true in california and I can't imagine is all that true elsewhere.

Can an overzealous DA fuck with you? Always. Will he get a conviction or even get the case into court? Not often.

Kindly Read the U.S. Obscenity Laws to protect yourself in private or public play. The law was put in place by Alberto Gonzales, as well as the task force formed. Now perhaps they have not targeted your area, and lucky you if they have not.However, many Dungeons, BDSM clubs and groups have come under attack.I live in Texas. We have had an inordinate amount of activity here on this front. There are still 20 states that carry Sodomy Laws. Mine is one of them.The reality is..The Law is what the cops choose to enforce, not what the Law really is. You might get some nice, understand cops who are aware of the lifestyle.. Or you might just catch someone who is having a very bad day. If so, then you go to jail. Now granted they may not have a case.. or anything to bring charges that a District Attorney will want to mess with. But the hassle and legal expenses will surely hurt your pocket.When the law changed in 2005, I sat down with a top criminal Attorney in Ft. Worth. He went over the law point by point with Me, as it relates to BDSM play and activities. you can elect not to believe me, that is your choice. Just remember how the legal system views things: Ignorance of the law is not a defense. *wink* Any person plying in this lifestyle should be aware or not only their own states laws, but the US Laws. Good Luck More Information:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tech-news/?p=500 http://www.iml2003.com/being27.htm http://gloria-brame.com/domidea/rumpoule.htm The following is an Excellent Link gives State By State http://www.fire-runner.com/bdsmandthelaw.htm

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RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 2:37:07 PM

LATEXBABY64

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

um what is this then

http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title12/ar10/ch3.html

It appears to be a link to content that you either didn't bother to read or just lack the intellectual wherewithall to understand. I'll leave it to the peanut gallery to decide which is more likely, based upon your previous posts.

~stef

um mental illness is determind by Doctors and a court of law not by i ndividuals and this could be anything so interpitation is pretty wide open
had you read everything it also covered spousal abuse and that an offcer dose not need a consent to arrest someone if he thinks it is going on that has been on the books for sometime yep yep

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RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 4:11:47 PM

SubinMaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

um mental illness is determind by Doctors and a court of law not by i ndividuals and this could be anything so interpitation is pretty wide open
had you read everything it also covered spousal abuse and that an offcer dose not need a consent to arrest someone if he thinks it is going on that has been on the books for sometime yep yep

Actually, Latex, it's not open to interpretation. Every instance of "abuse" concerning an "adult" in this law is preceded by the word "endangered"...meaning they do not have full use of their mental/physical capacities. These people are normally assigned a guardian. They cannot function in the world on their own. Be it doctor diagnosed or "hidden" from authorities, it would still be very evident.

If the two "participating" parties are, for the sake of argument, lawyers in their own rights, they obviously have use of their mental abilities and are capable of making a rational decision regarding consent.

As for the changes enacted by Alberto Gonzalez, it's really no different than what the community has always had to worry about. A lot of things done in private are illegal in some states, regardless of consent and, yes, you could find yourself in an unfortunate situation regarding arrest etcetera. But i just don't see it making for a huge influx of BDSM prosecuted cases.

Sodomy laws....sodomy, if i'm not mistaken, also includes blow jobs...so, unless these law makers are willing to arrest and prosecute the "vanilla" population as well, they won't stand a chance.

Glad my state is pretty liberal in its laws (according to the link provided by DommeMaggie)...Bigamy, Adultery, Sodomy and Crimes against Nature have all been repealed! Go *us*!

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RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/7/2007 4:39:40 PM

instynctive

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"Sodomy" is most commonly defined as "any unnatural sex act".

Which, of course, means anything except the issionary position for the sole purpose of procreation, thanks to the bible thumpers.

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RE: a Dark Day for gangsters - 8/8/2007 5:12:25 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

um what is this then

http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title12/ar10/ch3.html

Did your post about knowing that doctors are required to report any marks they find on you come from personal experience?

"incapable by reason of mental illness, mental retardation, dementia, habitual drunkenness, excessive use of drugs, or other physical or mental incapacity of managing or directing the management of the individual's property or providing or directing the provision of self-care..."

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Post #: 57

RE: a Dark Day for kinksters - 8/8/2007 5:20:14 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMaggie

...I live in Texas. We have had an inordinate amount of activity here on this front. There are still 20 states that carry Sodomy Laws. Mine is one of them.The reality is..The Law is what the cops choose to enforce, not what the Law really is. You might get some nice, understand cops who are aware of the lifestyle.. Or you might just catch someone who is having a very bad day. If so, then you go to jail. Now granted they may not have a case.. or anything to bring charges that a District Attorney will want to mess with. But the hassle and legal expenses will surely hurt your pocket....

Being charged and having to pay for a defense, is not the same as something being illegal.

And anyone 'top attorney' or not, who told anyone that sodomy was illegal in Texas, or any other US state, was bullshitting them.

Read Lawrence, which overrules everything else.

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RE: a Dark Day for kinksters - 8/8/2007 9:32:52 AM

LATEXBABY64

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every day is a dark day for kinky people when we keep trying to push what we are down the throats of (public familes political cricles so and so on) just piss them off and they make up new laws to say go to your corner and begood

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RE: a Dark Day for kinksters - 8/8/2007 10:11:04 AM

MistressCass

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

every day is a dark day for kinky people when we keep trying to push what we are down the throats of (public familes political cricles so and so on) just piss them off and they make up new laws to say go to your corner and begood

I don't see anyone pushing anything down anyone's throat.....now many might have thought about it in your case, but I think everyone just wants the same tolerance for their behaviors as the rest of the world is afforded.....I know my Lesbian daughter would like to have legal custody of any child her partner bears.....and *I* would like to not have to cross so many t's and dot so many i's to play in the fashion I choose with an CONSENTING *adult*.

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