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Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 2:10:32 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I believe there is a difference between my way and the way. My way pertains to my universe. The way is universal and involves setting the tone for everyone else.

A) "Submissive men are weak."  "Diaper play is wrong." "Only someone incapable of making adult decisions would desire punishment dynamics." "Men are superior." etc., etc.
&
 
B) "Male slaves make my teeth itch." "Diaper play presses my ewww button."  "Having a man as the head of household appeals to me." etc., etc.
 
Statements under the A) category quite often bring out flame throwers and I believe it's the right thing to do to hack those muthers to pieces.

Statements under the B) category are fine by me. They are words and opinions which are owned by the individual stating them and don't put a burden on anyone else to abide by those feelings.

Okay, so all that said, while those B) category statements might not bring out the flame throwers, if they are brought out to a public board, are we throwing ourselves into our own A) category if we try to talk someone out of their B) ideas?

How do such B) statement make you feel when you read them on a public board and they apply directly to your gender, your kink etc? 

Submissive men make my teeth itch.

A statement of opinion. When responding to such a statement, are we doing so to seek our own validation or is all fair in love and message board discussions?

I often see A) statements disguised as questions in which a poster purports to be seeking understanding but I'm not actually talking about those in this thread. This is regarding the B) statements and how we deal emotionally with someone else having opinions on what we do. My first inclination is to tell them to develop a thicker skin but then I don't tell them how to do so. Is it a trait that can be learned or do you just have to keep getting stabbed and letting scabs heal over until it develops on it's own?

Most of the vanilla world thinks we are pretty much all sick fucks so the bombardment of that attitude, hopefully, means that most have developed a thick skin so that it bounces right off.. but time and again I don't see that as the case.

I don't give a rats ass what someone else thinks about wiitid but there is a store that's selling those little buggers somewhere because people are buying them and bringing them to message boards and allowing themselves to hurt and feel bad because of them. Can we/should we help.. if so, how. If not, why not?

Celeste


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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 2:33:37 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Celeste,

i'm not sure if we can help, not to any great extent. It is like dealing with any other insecurity a person has, that people often "hear" something in a manner in which it was not said nor intended. i have a very good friend who i have dealt with this behavior on and off for years. All i can do is explain how i meant the statement that i said and reiterate that i would not do anything to deliberately harm her either with my words or my actions.

Unfortunately too often the person who is feeling insecure about a particular aspect of his or her kink "hears" the personal preferences of others on the topic as attacks on what it is that he or she does and then an argument starts where someone does veer into comments that would fall under the A.) category. Most often i think this occurs when someone is really not comfortable with his or her own desires, nor comfortable in his or her own skin. Because it seems to me that once someone is really comfortable with his or her own kink or in his or her own skin, the opinions of others don't matter nearly as much. Unfortunately i'm not sure if one can "teach" someone else how to get to that place other than to let them know that a lot of us are still on the same journey and to let them know the steps that we may have taken so far to accept ourselves as we are.

Not sure if i answered the question totally, but that is how i see it.

heartfelt


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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 2:36:08 AM   
mefisto69


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/19/2007
Status: offline 		You can choose to respond as you wish. Polite, kind, mentoring, or all out fucktard. Yes, we ALL have to develop thicker skins because there will always be someone to take offense....even about a spanking, but - in the end, that's their problem. If they present as rude simply laugh in their face. After all, they don't know what they are missing. If their kink is not mine, I sometimes roll the eyes but seldom let it bother me. If the situation becomes extreme, the ignore button is your friend.

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 2:36:27 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I think I understand you, that is DEEEP. ouch.

and no, I don't think (most) people are attempting to talk anyone out of their point of view. In general, I find most have quite logical points here. In areas and topics that are totally out-there, and a stubborn, set in my ways gal, I often think 'why can't they just think like me dammit and nobody will get hurt' lol.  Others, fortunately are way more patient.  I try not to A anyone, I hope I am a B. If I want to be an A, I stop myself. because that would make me a C. lol, not using that word.

k forget it, this is too deep for me, and you already saved my a$$ from two dead threads today, I can't think anymore.  Now the three braincells I have left today itch. lol 

< Message edited by came4U -- 8/7/2007 2:37:10 AM >

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 3:00:39 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Hi Celeste,

it's a noble endeavor, but fruitless I'm afraid. 

Simply, if people do not have enough confidence in who they are and what they enjoy, it is a weakness on their part.  The same can be said of many traits; from poor spelling, to poor hygiene.  There's no nice way to ask someone to take a shower; you can either make the point (knowing it will offend) or simply ignore it.

No one person can possibly shoulder the burden of trying to help everyone be the best person they can be.  In a social setting, people of like mind will gravitate towards each other; two people who don't care to bathe will likely end up talking to each other; if for no reason than nobody else will.  These lessons are harsh.  So're income taxes.

Something oft forgotten; people like to watch a good brawl.  Flame wars, occasionally, are the healthy release of pent up insecurities, foibles, and jealousies.  They're like mud wrestling; draws the beer chuggers in for a good show, but they stick around for the good food and refined company (coughs.)

People who aren't thick skinned enough to participate in public, shouldn't participate in public.  Some individuals I'll flame, because they're adults and can take it.  Others, I consider simply too fragile or explosive, so I put them on ignore.  The beat goes on.

Stephan


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"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 3:10:17 AM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		this is a very interesting thread. (man, bita truble you sure can write, girl whoa.)

from my perception. list A, is judgments. and list B, is feelings.

i am a huge advocate of staying very much in touch wif my feelings. they guide me and steer me. if sumfin pushes my ewwww button (omg great phrase) i want and desire to move away from it.

when i find myself making judgments, mostly about myself to myself, "i cant have..." it wont happen...." if i "...i am unloving cuz"... etc" i try to notice da judgement for wut it is and release it. say it outloud to diminsh da impact it is pressuring on my life..." i no longer think i am deluded because i want a man who turns me inside out sexually and also loves me to bits," or, "i am not unloving because male slaves make my teeth itch."

i also desire to not judge the folks who do fings dat squick me. i dont deny my feelings and i dont deny their right to exist. i move out of the way when i am uncomfortable and try my best to not be rude or mean. altho i can understand completely my feelings that would not care if all the folks i personally felt not right about got on a space ship and went away either. i tend to like really wonderful people.

btw i have no idea wut a wiitd is.

about helping, i feel if ya wanta help, help but be careful if it is a twist involving guilt. "i should help cuz the diaper thing pushes my ew button and it is not nice for me to think that, or make them feel unaccepted, so i will in turn do..."

i feel -stick wif your heart, and your guts, your feelings. if you like something, want to do/say something, it brings you pleasure, rocks your world and no one gets hurt, that is the thing to pursue. for me this is the best way to help anyone. if we all did that that would be cool, i would say.







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Every single line means something.
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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 3:20:50 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		What we do is ask questions and wait to see the responses and discuss with people.
We should also understand that we can't do anything and that everyone is responsible for themselves.
 
We all have our insecurities.  Michael posted a fab post opening a part of his soul and showing that we do.
But how we deal with those insecurities is our own responsibility - how we process information is personal responsibility -  and it doesn't matter how much of a 'community' we are.  It still comes down to the self.
 
Peace
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 5:05:04 AM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		 
Hi Celeste
 
what a great post !.. may I admire you ?  grinz...seriously!
You say it so well and pose one of the dilemmas of the ages> intolerance.  imo.
Some are intolerant and really do need others to agree with them/thier ways in order to feel secure about themselves and their own choices in life. > they bring this to the table with them when they share their feelings and ideas.
 
Others perhaps are more innocent of intolerance but rather are lacking in the ability to express their passions about the subject without coming across in a "convincing others" manner..
 
Some just like to come here and flame others into confrontations and into exposing their underbellies in the process, 'cuz they get off on mind-fucks and have no other outlet than this forum to do that in.
 ( and Im sure there are other categories others fall into that Im not including here )
 
I guess to answer your question ( and this is just my opinion of course ) it may begin to be solved by keeping it in the B category as you say.....> keeping our comments in the "i/me/my experience" statements and away from the  "you" statements...
 
An invaluable tool I was once given is the ability to say to someone trying to negate my feelings or worse > correct them...was the phrase " they are my feelings and feelings cannot be right or wrong, they just are...."
 
Many here have already expressed other thoughts to your post that I second and so will stop and go back to reading more..
 
I think this is a very good point to bring for group conscience  and again thanks ....its timely : )
 
 
 
 

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Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 5:11:20 AM   
Smythe


Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

A message board is bound to foster conflict and controversy. Once a person posts publicly, they assume a certain risk, that being that some other person will disagree with them, either politely or not so politely. Most people here are quite polite. We are here to share, but we are also here to argue.

One other point, though. I've seen lots of times when someone posts something that is naive (a good example is the ice cream cone sub who has just come on board and says "where are all the Dommes?") and everyone just piles on him or else they say "oy vey, I am standing back to watch the coming conflagration". In this case, it's always lovely when an experienced person steps in and explains the landscape a bit.

Smythe




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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 5:12:20 AM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		I don't try to convince people of anything.  Left that behind long ago.  My intent is to share my own experience.  Sometimes as a juxtaposition.  Someone can take from that what they will.  I think differing experiences and points of view are really useful in that the encourage IMO people to seek their own answers, to understand that for many things there are no absolutes.  And with that I think there is a freedom.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 5:29:47 AM   
PrincessinLatex


Posts: 191
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline 		This is *slightly* a teeny tiny bit off topic. . .but is that a latex dress you are wearing in your avatar pic Sunshine? The tight and shiny kinda made my morning

And oh! I tend to agree with the OP.

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 6:02:05 AM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		There are many different tactics in approaching communication and it's impossible to know which to use. One has one's own feelings, moods, prejudices, and past to deal with. Combine that with what's going on right this minute: UM's screaming and running around, dogs puking under the desk, doorbell ringing, trying to make a batch of cookies for a neighborhood meeting, or, if it's at the end of the day, having deal with all that and trying to find some peace and quiet for nerves already on edge.

On top of that, one can only assume the tone of written communication. Not easy to be accurate - we don't get facial expression, body language, tones of voice, nothing. So we mentally compare this to how we typically see the poster posting, and can (believe it or not) come up with an incorrect conclusion with regard to the poster's intent.

AND the anonymity of the Internet. What a wonderful tool for aggression that wouldn't usually be present in a face-to-face conversation. This aggression, of course, can be caused by all of the above, or it can be a matter of someone powerless realizing he or she can be a big scary barking dog online. Anonymity gives people a certain sense of power and can lead to provocative displays of verbal flexing.

Combine that with the day we had and it's a recipe for ... any number of things.

Thousands of diminuitive processes come into play, and usually very quickly, if not immediately. I don't usually sit and try to process each  little thought that goes through my mind before I post, or try to figure out what triggered a rabid response to any particular post - I just respond. I don't particularly like to argue, I don't particularly like being harsh. I much prefer to be pleasant and funny and nurturing ... but damn ... sometimes the bitch just shows up.

Combine that with some people's enjoyment of arguing and whining and goading and the stubborn death-grip on stupidity, and there we have a recipe for just a few of many possible reasons there are blow-ups on the boards.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 6:12:37 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Most of the vanilla world thinks we are pretty much all sick fucks so the bombardment of that attitude, hopefully, means that most have developed a thick skin so that it bounces right off.. but time and again I don't see that as the case.


i think you're glossing over an important distinction here. i think that there are people who have a different set of expectations for a kink discussion forum than they do for The Rest Of The World.

If you have a fetish for, say, being costumed as a mermaid and having a woman insert her foot into your ass, then Society At Large, which buys all their movies at WalMart and thinks boobies are the work of the Debbil, is going to freak. Fine. Be damned if you can't handle it, hope you break your neck.

But, when someone who enjoys being dressed up as a dog and violated with a rubber cow femur calls you a freak, it's like WTF? And that can inspire a few different reactions.
One is to say "Oh yeah? Well you're an even bigger freak, freak!"
Another is to say "Well, wait a minute here... can't you see that we're really not that different here??"
  And if you're inclined to self-reflection, perhaps the follow-up to that is "...well, maybe there really IS something wrong with me?"

And of course, to carry the metaphor... a thick skin is still just skin. If someone is disparaged by Society At Large, and STILL disparaged by a smaller society (or even enough individuals within a group) that they feel they have something in common with... sooner or later something is going to hit a nerve.

Unless they're completely dead inside, which is nice, but gets expensive.

...dave

< Message edited by petdave -- 8/7/2007 6:39:01 AM >

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 6:27:17 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		I'm ok with people having their squicks and their own notions, in either category as presented.  Really, if they're not involved in my little inner circle, I can't say that the person's kinks (regardless of how gross they might be to my sensibilities) trouble me or make me lose sleep.

Now -- concerning bringing those robust opinions into a public forum?  If you're going to have those category A statements on your CV and share them in a public forum, be it a discussion board, email list or live group, I'd hope the individual has the cohones to raise healthy debate, cope with having discussions, and handle differences of opinion and challenges to their positions.  And I'm prepared myself that if I make such a bold statement (um, ok, let's say......"green slaves with pink pinstripes are the only true slaves") that I'm going to be strong enough in my convictions to stand by it, debate it. defend it, and perhaps be adult enough to change my mind on it if in fact, I'm proven wrong.

We are the 1%ers of the sexuality brigade.  We put up with enough ignorance from outside the pack to put up with it from within??? Could be ignore being called names from within the pack, or brush the clueless, misinformed or unenlightened to the corners of the dungeon? Sure, but you're missing out on a unique opportunity for education.  Sometimes arguing for the sake of arguing is amusing.  More often than not, taking the opportunity to really discuss the other sides to a topic -- not just "this is my opinion" but clearly expressing reasoning and thought process -- that fosters growth, learning and enlightenment.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 8:13:15 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear BitaTruble, Ladies and Gentlemen;

For me, I don't mind the "my way" and or "the way" statements in topics and or threads.  My only displeasure is seeing the posts from individuals making it a personal attack on others.  It is a violation of the forums however, seems some get away with breaking that rule each and every time.

I personally approach "the way" statements as I do with any area, such as religion, politics and teachers/professors.
Rooted by faith and or passion, it is more of an intense expression of what can be an opinion.  The teaching profession have many fields which are unchallenged as far as what 'the way' is, such as math, etc.; then there are those areas which takes what is concrete, such as written law and then teach as far as theory goes and or philosophy.  How professors/teachers 'teach'--it is 'the way' but, only works within that structure enviorment and once graduated; real life application is the best teacher which tests the philosophy/theory out. 

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 8:18:37 AM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		There are ways to express my personal disinterest in different kinds of sexual practise that imply it just doesn't float my boat. There are also ways to intimate that if it DOES happen to float your boat, you're fucked up or weak or pathetic -- and without ever taking it into the general.

I don't think it's fair to expect people to let the latter go unchecked all the time, or accuse them of "insecurirty" and reading things into stuff if they choose to respond.

A statement like "male submissives make my teeth itch" may not seem like much, but that applies to my husband. Who is a delightful person you've never met, and manages to get along with more of humanity and charm more women than I ever will. We're talking about people here. Male Domination isn't anything I'm jonesing for, but I like to take people at face value.

I guess my point is people should think "do I sound like an ass-face if I say this?" before typing or talking and assume that you are speaking to the face of someone who is a member of the group you're about to characterize. I don't think this is a horrid form of oppressive censorship, just a taste of the golden rule that makes it more pleasant to be around each other.




< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 8/7/2007 8:26:37 AM >

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 8:22:13 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		People who believe one way or another don't bother me at all.  So, they have their way that works for them.  It doesn't mean it would ever work for me in this lifetime, right?

I believe the way I do.  I don't expect nor want people following my beliefs just because I said something.
Why should I have that sort of power over someone else?

There are people who crave it..and those are the ones who speak out loudest trying to get everyone to believe the way they do.  Good luck to them.

Should people be flamed for their beliefs?  Not in today's society.  Yet, there are simple minded people who will do it everytime.
Aside from the fact some people are just unwilling to listen even if you did try. 

The only time anyone's beliefs bother me is when they attempt to push them in my space in real life.  For instance my dom and I are monogamous...so don't push yourself on us trying to get us to play outside of our relationship.
Things like that.  For the rest of the world they are entitled to believe or do anything they wish.  I don't care what quirks they have.


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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 8:33:26 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		It is a discussion or perhaps even an argument that someone must face when they post onto the forums...If you are not prepared or you take the comments of others in cyberspace "personally" than this is not the medium for you.

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 8:38:03 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

i think you're glossing over an important distinction here. i think that there are people who have a different set of expectations for a kink discussion forum than they do for The Rest Of The World.

If you have a fetish for, say, being costumed as a mermaid and having a woman insert her foot into your ass, then Society At Large, which buys all their movies at WalMart and thinks boobies are the work of the Debbil, is going to freak. Fine. Be damned if you can't handle it, hope you break your neck.

But, when someone who enjoys being dressed up as a dog and violated with a rubber cow femur calls you a freak, it's like WTF? And that can inspire a few different reactions.
One is to say "Oh yeah? Well you're an even bigger freak, freak!"
Another is to say "Well, wait a minute here... can't you see that we're really not that different here??"
And if you're inclined to self-reflection, perhaps the follow-up to that is "...well, maybe there really IS something wrong with me?"

And of course, to carry the metaphor... a thick skin is still just skin. If someone is disparaged by Society At Large, and STILL disparaged by a smaller society (or even enough individuals within a group) that they feel they have something in common with... sooner or later something is going to hit a nerve.

Unless they're completely dead inside, which is nice, but gets expensive.

...dave

......my sentiments exactly (only much more consisely stated).  Bravo petdave!
luci

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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 8:44:08 AM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It is a discussion or perhaps even an argument that someone must face when they post onto the forums...If you are not prepared or you take the comments of others in cyberspace "personally" than this is not the medium for you.


It is a discussion.  If I'm going to be an asshole, I should be prepared to be called out on being an asshole and not whine about it. That's more what I'm thinking.


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