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RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 6:46:41 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

i wouldnt play on drugs.......but id play on herbal therapy....


What the f...?

Hypericum, rauwolfia, atropa, datura and a host of others will strongly affect your mind.
Poppies and coca leaves are herbs that have clear therapeutic uses.
Ayahusca is a traditional herb brew and a potent drug.

Where did you get the idea herbs were intrinsically safe? Or that medicines aren't?


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 6:49:52 PM   
teamnoir


Posts: 226
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: San Francisco Bay Area California
Status: offline 		Would, have, and do. I view them first of all as tools like anything else in my toy bag. And second, the interesting ones I also view as sacraments and tend to do in ritual settings.

(in reply to RVSearching)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 6:49:54 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PairOfDimes

ibuprofen is about as strong as it gets.


Ibuprofen makes me irritable and aggressive; apparently touches certain buttons.
Acetaminophen / paracetamol works via the same system as cannabis.
So much for what you think you know about OTC drugs.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to PairOfDimes)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 6:54:06 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

why dull the senses with drugs?


You're right... better avoid subspace and such...


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 6:59:41 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I don't either and can't remember the last time I have had a drink and played but bullshit is bullshit.  And trust me, there isn't any recent play that isn't very very vividly remembered!!


Ditto. There's a lot of ignorant mythology and empty dogma surrounding BDSM, drugs, and the combination of the two in particular. Definitely frustrating to see all the b/s that gets spewed whenever the topic is brought up. And nice to see a handful of people who actually get the point.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 7:08:33 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

you assume to much with out backing it up with the facts..


How is that any different from what the naysayers are crying?

quote:


i guess your never looked at DWI case  studies huh...  


I have debunked two ... does that count?

There is a major difference between being out of your mind and merely being affected.
And the natural responses are closer to the former than to the latter, I might add.
Have you got any idea of the magnitude of the natural response involved?
Or the variety of different styles of play available and their nature?


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 7:29:38 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

there is evidence that neuromuscular responses may be impaired in some individuals at BACs as low as .04% to .05% that is one drink


Cool. So what? It takes me exactly three drinks to get my neuromuscular responses to peak performance because of fine muscle tremors (microtwitches), something I have had tested and measured in hand-eye coordination tasks and reaction-time tasks. The simple fact of the matter is that you cannot generalize these things. People are different.

Someone who takes amphetamines for ADHD will not be less safe to play with while they are taking it, but in fact a lot safer to play with while they are taking it. Someone who does not have ADHD, taking a low dose of amphetamines, will see improvement in their judgment and attention, except if they have the met/met phenotype. Those with val/val phenotypes need a higher dose for the same improvement. Taking a dose which is too high for your phenotype will impair performance, however.

In short, it's far too simplistic to write things off with "drugs are bad".

Anyone who strictly adheres to that dogma is engaged in uninformed risk-taking.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 7:32:29 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

cause if you cause the death of someone while drinking, the courts will see that as negligence and maybe convicted in a wrongful death suit or accidental man slaughter either way your choice


What the courts think would be the last thing on my mind if I caused a play-partner to die.

Your mileage may vary.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 7:34:22 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

yep just like Pairis  Lindsey and Brittny and all the other ones lol


Those too...


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 9:54:19 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

Considering that one of the prime attributes of using said items is an impairment of judgement.


Impairment of judgment depends on the drug and the person. There is a dose-response curve, for one thing. And there are lots of different things that drugs do. Putting Provigil (modafinil) in your system will improve alertness and focus, without impairing judgment. Whereas alcohol will impair all three. Painkillers may impair them, depending on if you have disturbances in the internal opioid system, but the impairment is usually significantly less than the pain they were prescribed for. The point about endogenous drugs has been made already, so I won't repeat myself.

As usual, Risk Aware does not mean embracing the mythology, but rather investigating the matter at hand.

Snide remarks do not change this.

Note also that part of knowing the limits, is knowing the extent of how well you know your limits, including having experience with the drugs in a different context, having had feedback from sober parties that have observed your performance, testing your own faculties in a safe context, and so forth. Some of us go very far in ascertaining how well we function before engaging in any kind of activity.

quote:


I'll bet you all know just how much you can drink and drive safely too.


Actually, in my case, that has been objectively determined by eye-hand coordination tests, response-time tests, executive function testing, and so forth. Exactly three units yields optimal motor control, and is also below the level of impaired executive function that would bring my judgment down to average. But I don't expect most people have undergone such tests. That said, I don't have a car, I hate the effects of alcohol, and Norway has a zero-BAC policy, so it's a moot point.

People vary, Dominic.

This topic is not as simple as it seems.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 10:02:58 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

You have never seen me or any of the other INDIVIDUALS (you know, the ones you are busy honoring) act sober, after a few drinks, or drunk off our asses.  You place a higher value on your experience than mine or others, you place a higher value on your judgement than mine or others, I think the only divine you worship is that which you see in the mirror.


From me and nephandi (whose view on this topic differs from mine):

Namaste.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 10:11:00 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		One minor point that nephandi raised...

How about women having PMS or who are on the pill?
These definitely affect a lot of things, including mood and judgment.
Oh, and let's not forget aggression / irritability in PMS.

Chocolate binges are iffy, too...


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Altered states. - 8/13/2007 10:21:15 PM   
Neala


Posts: 70
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		Drinking and having a scene isn't for everyone. Same thing with sky diving, or hopping in your car in the morning. Life is full of risks it's up to you to decide which ones you choose to partake in.

Latexbaby64- Darlin' I suggest you go and jump off a plane and preach to the person jumping off next to you on the safeties of sky diving. You might have more of a chance of getting that person to listen to you than half the people on this thread. Have a wonderful day!

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Altered states. - 8/14/2007 6:15:22 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neala

Drinking and having a scene isn't for everyone. Same thing with sky diving, or hopping in your car in the morning. Life is full of risks it's up to you to decide which ones you choose to partake in.

Latexbaby64- Darlin' I suggest you go and jump off a plane and preach to the person jumping off next to you on the safeties of sky diving. You might have more of a chance of getting that person to listen to you than half the people on this thread. Have a wonderful day!



Neala!  Welcome to the boards.  What a wonderful way to start!

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to Neala)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Altered states. - 8/14/2007 8:11:57 AM   
favesclava


Posts: 1608
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		Master will use me hard when drunk, He knows is a deep fear of mine. my fear enhances the feelings. He's very much in control and not even a bruise is visible the next day. although in the adrenalin rush i could swear i will find myself a bloody pulp the next day.
i wouldnt do this with anyone else. but Master has all my trust . my fear has decreased but its still quite a rush

(in reply to violetaelf)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Altered states. - 8/14/2007 8:18:28 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		Ive played with my Sir and one other Dom whom I have compleate trust in after Ive had a beer or two, buts thats about as impaired as I get for play. They were sober btw, it was just me that had been drinking. Of course, I will admit to being a lush and if Sir refused to play with me after Id had a beer, there would be very little time he'd have to play with me. I was raised in a family who drank beer like the majority of the south drinks iced tea. It is just the beverage of choice with a meal, or a snack, or breakfast, or when your thirsty in the middle of the day. Half the time its alot safer to drink than the water.....alchohal kills all the germies.

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to favesclava)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Altered states. - 8/14/2007 9:15:02 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		I just Sit back and let cause and effect take over... etc ( someone dies from playing while under the influnce.. law enforcement comes The news comes in and maybe and i do say  maybe people will take notice... such  is the way of human stupidity )

(in reply to GhitaAmati)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Altered states. - 8/14/2007 9:25:59 AM   
twistedkytten


Posts: 240
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		as a girl who takes amphetamines i would like to say Thank You to Aswad and others who understand there is a difference. i am greatful for my -drug use- and hate to think of all that i would miss due to my inability to focus without them.. no to mention my poor ass if i could not remember simple instructions!

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Altered states. - 8/14/2007 9:42:11 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Ok as a new comer here, I have endeavored to be polite. But the pure pompousness of SOME people here is astonishing. I have checked my copy of the BDSM handbook, nowhere does it state that  it is necessary for me to listen to drivel. there are many good threads here.....but this one has just gotten to stupid , even for Me

Jeff

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Altered states. - 8/14/2007 10:01:58 AM   
Neala


Posts: 70
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		earthycouple,

Thank you so much for the warm welcome.

(in reply to earthycouple)
Profile   Post #: 160
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