mistaking kindness for weakness

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londonron -> mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 12:47:18 AM)
as an allround nice man i am very funny, very kind and will always think of my friends,subs and family etc. It is so annoying that this is seen as non "manly" by people. Do I really have to be someone i am not just to get my foot in the door and then show them real men dont feel a need to prove it by never being sensitive? I spend time getting to know the person, what they do in their day to day life so i can get a feel for who they are as i want to know them. i want to do what works so its an honest question, should i just let my knowledge of them come in its own time and just be a bit quicker with the demands for what i want. I am happy to wait for "the one" as i want a long term when its right but for regular medium term play partners i guess i am being dumb.

Level -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 1:08:33 AM)
Many do not see such things as "unmanly". Know yourself, be yourself, find those that fit into who and what you are. There also will always be those that disagree or dislike you, for whatever reason; if you let them put you off your path every time you meet up with them, then you're going to have a hard time of it.

earthycouple -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 1:56:12 AM)
I'd love to find more people like you, thankyouverymuch S Your approach would be welcomed by the likes of this chick (enjoys a man who enjoys the pre pre foreplay stage!)

Ericus1 -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 2:00:35 AM)
i have been told on many occasions that i am too much of a gentleman. get annoying at times. but is just who i am. ericus

utterlybutterfli -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 2:21:07 AM)
I think a man running to tell me there's a spider in the bath and could I get rid of it is 'unmanly' I think a man failing to take responsibility for his own behavior is 'unmanly' I think general rudeness and unpleasantness is 'unmanly' I cannot think of many women who think that pleasantness, courtesy and respect is unmanly Please don't pretend to be someone you're not, some of us are looking are looking for "nice" people and those who aren't, frankly, aren't going to want you very much when they've found out you're not so much a wolf in sheep's clothing as a sheep in wolf's clothing. My view though (as a submissive), is only to echo what Level has said and suggest you try and find others that are willing to fit in with you and what you want. I have to say, I'm not so sure I'd be comfortable if my Dominant, in the 'getting to know you stage' was too worried about my possible rejection of him to just be himself, and run at a pace he felt comfortable with - after all, he's the Dom, right? I wish I could remember where, but I saw a good post on here the other day that said, and I paraphrase "I don't look for relationships, I look into relationships", maybe if we all took that view, then it would be easier to find a better fit, so to speak, because we would be weighed down less by expectation and more attracted by mutual interest. Anyhoo, I go on rather, I wish you the best of luck

londonron -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 3:13:54 AM)
i know ill never change being me, its just annoying to have to think maybe its a good idea to wait a while rather than ask about stuff that should be the first things i feel you should ask. funny with the spider comment as i did remove one in a timely manly fashion last month at a subs house and saw her swoon which was very nice to see. but i do know a few sub girls who have got past that stage and opened up and we all get on well. I even have a sub gym buddy but i cant get her to lift the weights for me yet.

Cyntilating -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 4:28:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: londonron as an allround nice man i am very funny, very kind and will always think of my friends,subs and family etc. It is so annoying that this is seen as non "manly" by people. Do I really have to be someone i am not just to get my foot in the door and then show them real men dont feel a need to prove it by never being sensitive? I spend time getting to know the person, what they do in their day to day life so i can get a feel for who they are as i want to know them. i want to do what works so its an honest question, should i just let my knowledge of them come in its own time and just be a bit quicker with the demands for what i want. I am happy to wait for "the one" as i want a long term when its right but for regular medium term play partners i guess i am being dumb. Hi Ron I can only speak for myself, and I know there are some out there do think the way you are referring to...But, not all of us do. Personally, ( and I will in this case speak for more than a handful of submissive women that have shared their views on this matter with me over the years ) when I come across a "big'olbadass" type dom who feel they have to portray themselves with meaness, lack of care or concern, "gonna whip'da bitch" cuz i can control you attitude> it really says more to me about their insecurities and lack of understanding their own dominance, than it does their strength or strength of character. And I would like to also add that knowing that we are all human ( this isnt fantasy land and we all do have lives and families and day to day stuff we deal with and obstacles, good days bad hair days, down time, up times ...bills to pay, kids to shuttle to and fro..etc...and a sense of humor and calm caring nature is essential!!! seeing how someone deals with all of THAT stuff, imo, is more of a testament to their character and "manlyness" as you put it... The Man I served for 10 years was a born and raised Southern Gentleman...chivalrous, oh yes.. adores his 2 cats....has the most patient and kindest attitude towards life and others..and we made/make each other laugh constantly!!. yet, there was never a doubt in my mind about his self-control or control of US... I'm not sure what the male equivalent is of the old adage " Librarian by day, Tiger behind closed door " but..whatever that would be >> fill it in here with regards to him.. Level, said it well ( as usual ) know yourself and be yourself..the rest will happen..you will attract who and what is right for you ..

MistressMadame -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 4:54:50 AM)
Some people like being treated like shit because they are insecure and use the attention to play victim or justify some preconceived, jaded notion. Either way, there is always an ulterior motive... As long as you know who you are, you shouldn't have to feel compelled to justify your manliness to anyone-- it is annoying though. To Me, it just sounds like your mama raised you right [;)].

camille65 -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 5:11:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressMadame Some people like being treated like shit because they are insecure and use the attention to play victim or justify some preconceived, jaded notion. Either way, there is always an ulterior motive... As long as you know who you are, you shouldn't have to feel compelled to justify your manliness to anyone-- it is annoying though. To Me, it just sounds like your mama raised you right [;)]. Everyone has an ulterior motive? [:(] I sure hope not. To the OP, yes there are some who will see kindness as weakness but in reality it is a strength. Stay who you are, stick to what you believe is your truth and you will find someone who fits you. If you try and change your kindness and generosity I don't think you would be happy with yourself or with whoever is attracted to that. It wouldn't be 'you'.

YourShyPet -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 6:52:40 AM)
The only person that I have ever felt submissive to is my Daddy, and he is one of the most kindest...gentlest...selfless... caring people I know... To me your not a "real man" and sometimes I will question on whether you are a real human being if you come at me with that "super macho manly man" attitude... If your honest with yourself... I don't see where you can go wrong.

Babybass -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 7:28:30 AM)
Ron, You can only be yourself - and not everyone will like that. The people that do like that, and like you are the ones worth your time and effort. If someone rejects you because they think that you aren't manly enough then really they aren't worth it. They will sap your energy. I believe that it takes more of a man to be true to himself than to conform to the image of what the world perceives to be a 'manly' man. My Master is one of the gentlest men i have ever known - he has impecible manners and treats everyone with the utmost respect. He is not great with feelings, but does try to share them, even though he finds it very difficult. But i see him as more of a man than any of the other 'manly' men i have ever been out with.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 7:33:53 AM)
The only thing you'll get if you change who you are in order to get someone is someone who had to be convinced that you're someone else in order to be with you. http://www.collarchat.com/m_856653/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#857014 too nice http://www.collarchat.com/m_848523/mpage_2/key_gentleman/tm.htm#848969 Mr. Nice guy is not Mr. Nice Dom? http://www.collarchat.com/m_825792/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#825829 Can a dom be a gentleman? http://www.collarchat.com/m_799563/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#799760 what makes a 'real' dom? http://www.collarchat.com/m_775753/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#775760 dominants who show emotions, weakness or vulnerability http://www.collarchat.com/m_771270/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#771630 Does gentle master mean weak? http://www.collarchat.com/m_668725/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#668733 Too polite? http://www.collarchat.com/m_505491/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#505668 Seeking consensus: dominant as gentleman? http://www.collarchat.com/m_433779/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#433966 Master...in slaves' eyes! http://www.collarchat.com/m_380311/mpage_2/key_gentleman%252Cdom/tm.htm#384513 dom vs gentleman http://www.collarchat.com/m_266268/mpage_1/key_gentleman%252Cdom/tm.htm#266288 the gentleman dom with feelings Is the term gentleman dom an oxymoron? Gentlemen vs nice guy

feastie -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 7:45:20 AM)
Ron, kindness is not weakness. Be who you are. Trying to be someone else will only cause you pain. In the end, you'll find someone who appreciates you for you. That's what I hold onto daily. Good Luck.

justinfun -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 7:49:22 AM)
I've had some similar struggles as I've stepped into the lifestyle. Been told I was too vanilla, was really a switch or a sub. What I found was that labels don't mean much as in the end you define who you are by how you act not by dropping a bunch of labels on your profile. I also discovered a great deal of joy in being a Daddy Dom (ok, so that's a label) and have since that discovery opened up a wonderful relationship with a daughter sub half my age. All is well and the foundation of it is the nice guy that I've always been ... yes, demanding and in charge, but in a caring, nurturing, guiding way that I get as much pleasure from as the other aspects of our life. Different strokes for different folks. There are some out there that get off on being or being done by the macho type. You aren't that type from your description. The worst thing you could do is try to change to meet the needs of a sub who enjoys that type of Dom. It'll either come off as fake or you'll not enjoy yourself nearly as much as if you stay you. Be true to yourself and you'll find a match that works. You sound about where I was when I was in the midst of struggling through all that. Good luck working it out.

Padriag -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 9:20:08 AM)
Maybe the problem isn't being nice or a gentleman. Maybe its in how these submissives were approached. Or maybe it could be someone discussing how many times women have blocked him in his journal or calling people dumb and stupid. Just a thought. [8D]

BlueCollar -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 9:26:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: londonron as an allround nice man i am very funny, very kind and will always think of my friends,subs and family etc. It is so annoying that this is seen as non "manly" by people. Do I really have to be someone i am not just to get my foot in the door and then show them real men dont feel a need to prove it by never being sensitive? I spend time getting to know the person, what they do in their day to day life so i can get a feel for who they are as i want to know them. i want to do what works so its an honest question, should i just let my knowledge of them come in its own time and just be a bit quicker with the demands for what i want. I am happy to wait for "the one" as i want a long term when its right but for regular medium term play partners i guess i am being dumb. I too get pretty frustrated over this sorta perception people have. I like to consider myself polite and considerate of others. I can be a bit of an asshole at times, but more like one of those friendly loudmouth assholes who enjoys a good laugh. When it comes to BDSM, I still behave and act like I would in any other scenario. Like you, I don't believe I need to put on some sort of false "macho idiot" persona to find a partner, yet it seems like you and I are in the minority at times.

SirDominic -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 9:34:03 AM)
Ron, All this advice about "just be yourself" is true in a sense, but ultimately of no help. The be yourself crowd acts like there is only one you, but in reality there are multiple you's. Are you the same person when you talk to your parents as when you go out with your friends? Are you the same person at work as you are out on a date? Obviously, the core person is always you, but there are layers of us that we turn on and off depending on the occasion we are in. That is why the "be yourself" advise is true, but in the end, useless. As others have said, you don't want to be someone you are not. That is misleading and ultimately will cause problems in the relationship when you cannot keep up the act. Yet when you are talking with a potential sub, you sure don't want to act like the "you" that you are around your parents. Beginning to make sense? Being kind, funny and caring are all good qualities to project. You just need to combine the Dominant part of yourself with those other qualities when speaking with potential subs. If you are strong, your actions should show you are strong, if you are in control, your actions should show that, and so on, and so on. Bottom line, you need to pull the different layers of you that would most achieve the effect you want and mesh them into a persona. You should then practice that persona. Actually speak and act in front of a mirror out the message you want to project. Practicing is very important. Doing this is not in any way dishonest, as long as you use various parts of your true personality, and don't add into that anything you are not. Namaste, Sir Dominic

breatheasone -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 11:47:41 AM)
Its ashame that some people feel that politeness and common curtesy are "unmanly"....because it is indeed NOT.

sublizzie -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 11:50:21 AM)
Frankly I find someone who is polite, kind, and generally a nice guy much more interesting than the jerks that I often find. I'm more apt to follow and give control to someone who has a sense of humor and honor than someone who is nasty to other people. Just my thoughts........

ProlificNeeds -> RE: mistaking kindness for weakness (8/13/2007 12:07:32 PM)
Personally, I want to know the person, before the Dom. I want to know someone as they are in everyday life. Their favorite curse words, if they pick their nose, that they let little kids put suckers in their beards. Stupid stuff that shows patience and consideration. Those are the real parts. There are a million and one guys going "I AM MANLY RARWR!" so I can get my fill of that any hour of the day... finding someone genuine and open, THAT's the rare find. Besides, I'd like to know anyone I allowed into my life in any serious measure, is going to be polite and respectful of my family, and the things I consider important in my life. You gotta be the kind of person who can meet the family, right? Unless you don't want to be that kind of guy that can be included in all aspects of your girls life, which doesn't seem to be the case givent he tone of your post. For raw appeal, I'm sure we all like a page out of the romance novel, but, books get put away, and then we get back to reality. Anyone who doesn't want a realistic partner, probably isn't down-to-earth enough for you anyway. If you want to make a connection with someone based on sexual appeal, you might need to put on an act, but if you want a connection based on who you are and what you're comfortable with, just keep cruising along as you are, you'll find someone who will not only appreciate your nature, but want to make you a regular part of their day. As for play partners... "Hey I don't care if you're the one, bend over and let me paddle you raw." might work...

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