Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list?

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Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 7:40:53 PM

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The talk about dominants frustrated with the submissives' parameters, wish lists, limits and agendas made me think of a pretty simple solution. If a dominant wants a partner who submits without any pre conceived wish lists or fetishes of their own they want met, then dominate a vanilla partner.

Works great for me.

Akasha

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RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 7:47:35 PM

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I don't mind lists.

I do mind unrealistic ones, based off of internet garbage, and Harlequin romance novels.

Let's get real-Expecting Prince Charming to will pop up in the nick of time is a very tired old Myth.

You'll just have to settle for an imperfect man who tries his best.

Pedestals are a lousy place to live..You don't have to shift very far to fall off.

< Message edited by Gemeni -- 7/8/2005 7:48:19 PM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 8:04:37 PM

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I like submissives with a list (formal or informal) of their desires, needs, fears, concerns and limits.

I don't, however, judge people for what they have on their list. They are being honest and subjecting themselves to vulnerabilities by exposing it and it is a legitimate list because it's theirs. I think that mocking or reducing someone for their desires is a sign of narrow-mindedness.

I can however judge if this person is right for me. If my list and theirs don't match up, all it means is that we are more then likely not compatible.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 8:06:00 PM

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i think unrealistic expectations could be a whole separate topic... they exist on both sides just like any other preconceived notions and/or biases.

To me, lists are more about providing guidelines, not rules. just because i tell a Dom i like something, doesn't mean i expect it at all times. and vice versa - a Dom may check that he's really into watersports, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll force it on every sub.

i think a list is meant to be a place to start conversations and provide a segue to share past experiences both good and bad. Especially when you're trying to meet people on the Internet, where facial expressions, body language and tone of voice are all missing. There are no clues or hints in text.

lovechop
Make the most of yourself, for that is all there is of you. ~Emerson

(in reply to Gemeni)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 8:07:19 PM

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Gemeni,

I understand your point of view. And I have read many of your posts and I realise that the concept of princess sub is something you are really not fond of. But it works for some people. And some people are really happy in that dynamic.

The question posed by Aakasha was not "what kind of lists are you attracted to". It was, do you appreciate lists. Look, if a girl came up to you with her princess hopes and dreams, wouldn't you at least appreciate the fact that she was completely honest with you from the get go? I mean, you might not like what is on her list, but you could respect her for knowing what she wants, right?

- LA

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(in reply to Gemeni)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 9:00:00 PM

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I just have my desires. No list, there are things i like, and things I dont.

Thats about it.

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RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 9:10:52 PM

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First off, as I'm not a Dom/me I am not sure I have any place posting here.

However, after reading the last few threads I have become increasingly confused.

From the reading I have been doing, I was under the impression that if there was not a wish list, there was a least a sincere and serious negotiation process before any kind of relationship was tendered. W/we do some pretty heavy and dangerous things to our bodies and our minds, and if the dom/me and the sub aren't on the same page- then there is a lot of margin for error.

I don't know- am I just misinterpretting the topic? That would explain a lot.

(in reply to KarbonCopy)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 10:38:36 PM

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I can respect honesty.

And you are right, I am not terribly fond of princess subs-I know who will end up serving who with those sorts.

But at least if they know they want something I don't, I can pass gracefully.

And Akasha is quite right...I might as well try to Dominate a vanilla as most "princesses".

They have a lot less idiocy to be "untrained" from.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 10:43:39 PM

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I think having a list is very helpful in terms of getting to know one another and getting down to it.

My Dom made me make a list of the things I needed in a relationship (the things I absolutely had to have, couldn't live without), my desires in a relationship (the things I really wanted) and the things I could not tolerate under any circumstances.

The way he put it was like this: Needs usually are distilled down to one quick sentence: I need to be loved. I need to feel safe. I need to be treasured.

Desires are more complex, such as : I desire to share my life with my partner and create an unstoppable team.

Now, even when my expectations (we all have them) or my perfect little visions aren't being lived up to... (they never will) ... he points me to my basic list of needs and has me look and see if they're all being met.

I also think it's good to have a sub create a list of things that they enjoy, things they have never tried, and things that they are not into so that you can know what buttons push what. It's one thing to spank the hell out of someone who loves to be spanked and quite another to spank someone who really hates it but only tolerates it to please you. I don't think that moving forward in a dynamic like that without some kind of road map is a wise choice, at all.

So that's just my two cents...

(in reply to Gemeni)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 10:45:58 PM

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And that said we all have wishes... Just because we are subs or even slaves doesn't mean we don't have the right to have wishes, dreams, desires... things that we crave and want... I think that we are all happier with at least a few of those things. Maybe someone's wish is to not have any wishes but what their Master or Domme wants... ? That is a wish too, no? I am firmly and completely convinced that I as a sub perform so much better when some of my needs and desires are being met. I am more useful to my Dom in that sense. To crush my wishes and dreams is also to crush the part of myself that wishes and dreams to serve... and also wishes and dreams of other things too.

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 10:46:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni

I can respect honesty.

And you are right, I am not terribly fond of princess subs-I know who will end up serving who with those sorts.

But at least if they know they want something I don't, I can pass gracefully.

And Akasha is quite right...I might as well try to Dominate a vanilla as most "princesses".

They have a lot less idiocy to be "untrained" from.

I wasn't necessarily being facetious. Depending on your expectations as a dominant, a converted vanilla who demonstrates submissive traits might be ideal.

Because I 'learned' my dominance and explored my fetishes completely with vanilla men, the first time I was exposed to submissive men I was confused by their expectations and pushiness and turned off by their manipulation. It took a lot of readjusting of my thinking and mostly *ME* learning to communicate better with them to find the balance that worked for me.

I also wonder if the "princess" syndrome you speak of is not necessarily even part of their submissive identity, but just an aspect of their personality. There are plenty of vanilla "princesses" also.

Akasha

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(in reply to Gemeni)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/8/2005 11:33:54 PM

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It's the manipulative bent that I find to be so distasteful.

I'm very pragmatic and intelligent,and I see through ploys and games immediately. I certainly would never tolerate the things most "brats" do for attention. I'm actually more disgusted with the weak men who encourage it, than I am with the brats.

I'm very simple in my tastes,and I really don't have much liking for drama and bullshit.

I'd rather be part of a competent team who works together, than entertainment for an emotionally stunted female. I'm told I am not terribly kind for saying things like this.

And that is correct.

I reserve kindness ,compassion, and attention for those who deserve it.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/9/2005 7:48:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SophiaBelle

First off, as I'm not a Dom/me I am not sure I have any place posting here.

However, after reading the last few threads I have become increasingly confused.

From the reading I have been doing, I was under the impression that if there was not a wish list, there was a least a sincere and serious negotiation process before any kind of relationship was tendered. W/we do some pretty heavy and dangerous things to our bodies and our minds, and if the dom/me and the sub aren't on the same page- then there is a lot of margin for error.

I don't know- am I just misinterpretting the topic? That would explain a lot.

First of all SophiaBelle, feel free to post absolutely wherever you want. These boards have categories as guidelines but in no way shape or form is anyone restricted from answering anything, anywhere.

And I'm glad you chimed in because I find your post to be extremely valid. You are right! How can you just sit there and be "a passive little sub" and at the same time be open and communicative.

I believe this post of Aakasha's was a response to some of the discussions you were referring too about how a sub isn't submitting if they state limits. Now of course that may a Dominant's fantasy, but is it mosts? That is what we are trying to get at here.

From my perspective, feedback is one of the best parts of WIITWD. It's what I actually get off on. So communicating openly is a must for me.

- LA

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RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/9/2005 8:23:17 AM

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I don't mind lists in profiles, as they are an initial way to see if you have compatible interests. When I was seeking, I had a list in my profile of what I enjoy and what I do not enjoy, and made it clear that my sub needed to have the same interests as far as D/s. What I do have an issue with is subs who are not able to get past talking about the things on the list. I enjoy regular conversation when making initial contacts with subs, and if a sub is not able to get past the "BDSM talk", I lose interest quickly.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/9/2005 5:32:05 PM

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I don't think that finding a vanilla partner is a solution because over time a wish list will develop even if it is "do that again" or "I didn't like that".

Otherwise, I want to know the wish list because it shows potential areas for compatibliity and it has the buttons I can choose to push or not push. Then there are buttons I won't push -- for example I'm not much of a sadist and so knowing somebody is a serious endorphin pig points to a potential deal killer.

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RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/9/2005 5:46:22 PM

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Endorphin pig? Gee thanks. I've been called many things in my day, but endorphin pig is a new one :P

- LA

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RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/10/2005 6:22:28 AM

Zupan

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I feel that list shold be used as a tool, not the end all of what you will or won't do. They show what you are interested in, whether you have done them or not. Mayber after trying them you decide you don't really like them, same as with things that are not on a list. Maybe someday that will change. Peoples interests chance over time as do situations.

There are only a few things I look for in a list that are key interests for me, the rest I guess you could say are negotiable. Just because they are in my list doesn't mean they are must haves. But they can be good conversation starters.

Karl

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/10/2005 6:44:41 AM

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quote:

I believe this post of Aakasha's was a response to some of the discussions you were referring too about how a sub isn't submitting if they state limits.

After passing this thread by a few times, I saw the above statement and started wondering if this had anything to do with the "Domspeak" thread. Just on the off chance that it does, and my statement below was misinterpreted...I really need to clarify...

quote:

If one only submits when its something they want to do, its not submitting.

There is a huge difference between the two ideas that are quoted.

f

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(in reply to Gemeni)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/10/2005 6:56:33 AM

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I think having a list is fine. It's even better if it's not in the form of a list; i.e., if it's just a matter of recognizing one's needs. I myself have a wish list of sorts, though it's not formatted as such, and I will convey that information as a part of my conversations with someone, obviously. For example, I am not into scat, fisting, or poly, and I have no desire to put fish hooks into someone's muscles and hoist her into the air. I also want to meet someone who is in good shape and is not a republican. I want to know this stuff about those I meet, but I'd prefer to learn such things in the course of a smooth interaction.

But as for the basic question of "list: yes or no?", I have to say "yes"; I think we all have 'em, whether we admit it or not.

Bob

(in reply to Zupan)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/10/2005 7:15:58 AM

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quote:

I like submissives with a list (formal or informal) of their desires, needs, fears, concerns and limits.

I don't, however, judge people for what they have on their list. They are being honest and subjecting themselves to vulnerabilities by exposing it and it is a legitimate list because it's theirs. I think that mocking or reducing someone for their desires is a sign of narrow-mindedness.

I can however judge if this person is right for me. If my list and theirs don't match up, all it means is that we are more then likely not compatible.

O how i admire Lady Angelika's posts; She is so thoughtful and wise. i am a true novice; i have no experience at all. My profile says i think i'd like light bondage and role playing, but apart from that, my desires would be found as i learned from my Dom. How else could they be found? (Although i do find slavedesires posts about throat f**king very exciting.) Reading about an experience someone else has had on the net cannot tell me whether it would feel good to me.

This is a large part of the reason i do not wish to discuss sexual matters with men i have just met; i see no point since it is such a one-sided conversation and degenerates into cyber. i am searching for a Man with Character; and in Him i will repose my trust and love; and my desire to please Him will add such excitment to O/our sexual encounters that there simply is no way to predict what will become part of O/our repetoire and what will be left off the list.

pleasureforHim

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< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/10/2005 7:20:37 AM >

(in reply to DesertRat)

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